Noblet - Courts: Queen of Bastons

In the general thread of the release of Jean-Claude Flornoy's release of this important deck, thinbuddha asks (post #220) about this card: 'Why the nipples?'

Let's have a look at the details of this card in both its original and the restoration:

Restored version:


original version:


What is 'clear' (I have to allow for some possibility of lack of resolution) is that the 'nipples' are not the work of the woodcarver, but rather solely a consequence of the person who did the colouring. Possibly as a consequence of the colour chosen, the person doing the stencils on at least this extent deck added a couple of spots to bring to light how he (I presume, perhaps incorrectly, a 'he') decided to see the image.

Given the carved lines, I personally doubt this Queen's top was intended to be depicted as bare, but rather shows the likely folds of the top of her dress. 'Why' the nipples, then, is perhaps best answered 'as the playful finishing touches of the person applying the colours'.

But let us not forget that the person who colored these cards is alive and well, living in France.

He did try to match the colors of a long dead colorist from the 15th century, but this is the one place in the deck where it appears that JC Flornoy added what looks like a 3D lighting effect to something that was clearly not done with such an effect in the original deck.

What was once something that was probably nipples, became something that is 100% without a doubt meant to be nipples- complete with a glistening highlight.

Not that I'm complaining- nipples are a good thing. We don't get enough of them- it was just an interesting choice.

-tb

Perhaps it should also be mentioned, then, that I have zoomed in on the original as well - the card as it is in the BN 'clearly' depicts what J-C Flornoy has made more 3-D.

Any chance the Queen's blouse is intended as gauzy and partly transparent? Like very thin linen, for example?

I remember posting this somewhere....

It was the fashion in those days to sometimes let the areola (the pigmented area around the actual nipple) to show over the top of the corset... If it was a man - and likely was - that painted it in, it might be simply inaccurate drawing... (what he THINKS he sees)

They're very crooked too.....what do they look like on the original Star?
Do they look added on or intentional?

What intrigues me about this queen is that little bit of decorative vine at the base of her chair...it's also only on the Roy Despee..no other court, makes me think there is something going on there....

Well it's interesting that her face and hands are white and yet the pink/buff colour of her dress was decided to become a bare chest (I would suggest it was definitely a 'he' that did the painting!) There do seem to be 'some' lines drawn underneath the original though. Perhaps Rox can throw some light on this.

Justice and Strength both have similar dress lines but no nipples, so I wonder why it was decided to paint them on for this card.

I always said this was the porno Marseilles.

Before I had ever seen the Noblet card, I already always saw the Queen of Bastons as a very sexual woman. In all Marseille decks she sits there with here legs open, holding a very large, thick and very phallic baston between her legs. Her long curly hair is covering her shoulders in a very sensual way, her other hand is pointing into her lap and with her sultry eyes she makes very clear where her strength lies.

So when I first saw the Noblet card the nipples were a conformation of all that.

Sexual energy is life energy. It is the most powerful energy there is, and with it you can create anything. And the Queen of Bastons is all that!

Edited to change the word 'chest' into 'lap' (excuse my poor English ).

This aspect the baston being a bit phallic on especially this court on many Marseille-type depictions does indeed jump to mind, but had not made to obvious further sexual connotations of this deck's naked-breasted depiction!

Good to see the mind and connections at work

thinbuddha said:

But let us not forget that the person who colored these cards is alive and well, living in France.

He did try to match the colors of a long dead colorist from the 15th century, but this is the one place in the deck where it appears that JC Flornoy added what looks like a 3D lighting effect to something that was clearly not done with such an effect in the original deck.

What was once something that was probably nipples, became something that is 100% without a doubt meant to be nipples- complete with a glistening highlight.

-tb

Click to expand...

When we look at the scans on the forum, the nipples do indeed seem highlighted. But I think the scan's enlargement actually reveals a (normally invisible) result of problems we had with the black line during printing. Without going into tedious detail, the black had to be "pushed" to eliminate white pixels bordering the darker colors. If one were to look at many cards enlarged in this way, I fear we might find more "highlighting" effects that are actually (must make a bare breast of it) technical imperfections. I don't know. I don't dare look. Suffice to say, any highlighting effects are totally unintended, and would be completely incongruous with respect to the originals. Jean-Claude did really find black lines for the nipples, and so put them in. Why the image was done that way is anyone's guess. A gauzy fabric attached to the very definite "collar" textile is not to be ruled out. If I've got it right, the fashion in 1650 no longer involved bear-breastedness. But the times were less prudish as well..........
It is frustrating that there is only ONE original copy of this deck in the world. If there were even one other to consult, there would be matter for comparison, a hope that the other copy was less thickly coloured, or showed more black line in certain cases, or was less "black" in the green or dark blue etc. etc. But there we are, there's only one to work from. More questions than answers, I'm afraid.