[elvenstar]

Uh oh, the teacher will start singling us out soon. Yes, have sort of done a bit of homework, tried it with the Mythic, although I really need to get the book out because they have a slightly different order in it I think. One of the paths (the Magician one) was very impressive, gave me the shivers to see all these big guys ganging up, with Hermes, Zeus, Ares, Poseidon, Hades and Apollo all in one row with the three Fates in the middle... All powerful macho deities, but the fates outrank them all in the eye of the storm aka turning point... The others didn't immediately make as much sense, but I haven't had the time to look at it properly. There's a lot of stuff in this thread, feedback will come, but give us some time

[Scion]

JEEZ but you do goodhandouts! What software are you using to design these? Lovely to look upon and insanely clear.

I have laid out the grid, although as you noted early on, when I did I realized I'd seen it referenced in a couple of older authors' books. Nevertheless I think the exploration you're doing is terrific. What's interesting is that in riffing on these ideas your system reminds me of what Wirth and Papus (et al.) did in their various alternate models. I especially like the use of this as a 7 card spread, (more than a rubric for studying the Trumps) because I'm not a fan of the post-70s Fool's Journey model; I never think of the Trumps as sequential in a narrative sense because it seems so literal and monoscopic. But by identifying a Hegelian dialectic, you've sidestepped that. Nice.

People are still here watching you dig around.

Scion

[rwcarter]

Elvenstar,

Originally Posted by elvenstar

Uh oh, the teacher will start singling us out soon.

Don't worry about that. There are more of us than there is of him. If we all gang up on him, he doesn't have a chance!

Originally Posted by elvenstar

Yes, have sort of done a bit of homework, tried it with the Mythic, although I really need to get the book out because they have a slightly different order in it I think.

The Mythic was my first deck some 15 years ago. I still have a fondness for it, although I haven't used it in a number of years. And you're right. The majors are ordered slightly differently than in RWS. If I have enough time after playing with the Robin Wood and Navigators this weekend, I'll play with the Mythic too and see what I come up with.

Originally Posted by elvenstar

There's a lot of stuff in this thread, feedback will come, but give us some time

I don't remember if I've sent you the dangerdorkdoc, but if you want a copy of it, PM me with an email address and I'll be happy to send it along. It's currently 45 pages long and growing....

Rodney

[fyreflye]

Originally Posted by rwcarter

For any and all who are interested, I'm in the process of assembling all the relevant posts in this thread into a single Word document (The dangerdork file? ) that I'm happy to send to anyone who wants a copy. At least for me, it helps to have everything all in one place instead of having to go back and forth through different posts.
Rodney

Those who like me can't open Word can instead print this entire thread in Plain Text if you go to the top of this page, click the pull down menu Thread Tools, select "Show Printable Version," and print it or save it as a txt. file.

[Itika]

My Major Arkanas seems older as Minors of same deck, I use them more, separately. Therea are more Paths or sub-decks in Major Arkana than 3. Meybe it all is already done in 1970-s and current trends are different. Let me know!

[rwcarter]

Originally Posted by fyreflye

Those who like me can't open Word can instead print this entire thread in Plain Text if you go to the top of this page, click the pull down menu Thread Tools, select "Show Printable Version," and print it or save it as a txt. file.

Believe me, I'm far from a Microsoft groupie (my heart belongs to Apple, but my soul belongs to Microsoft and Dell ). Anyone who doesn't have Word can still download a free Word Reader from the Evil Empire that will allow them to open and print Word docs without being able to edit them.

Rodney

[dangerdork]

Originally Posted by elvenstar

tried it with the Mythic, although I really need to get the book out because they have a slightly different order in it I think. One of the paths (the Magician one) was very impressive, gave me the shivers to see all these big guys ganging up, with Hermes, Zeus, Ares, Poseidon, Hades and Apollo all in one row with the three Fates in the middle... All powerful macho deities, but the fates outrank them all in the eye of the storm aka turning point... The others didn't immediately make as much sense, but I haven't had the time to look at it properly.

I laid out my Mythic (for which I've lost the book). It came out a little differently than you described, and I think the cards were in their original order. SO annoying that they're not annotated with a number or a traditional Majors name or the god's name or anything. But that one dude HAD to be Prometheus, whom I didn't see on your list. This is the only example I've looked at with a "re-ordered," or to be PC, "differently-ordered" deck from the TdM or RWS decks that I've seen, and the Seven Stations / Three Paths perspective seems not to be holding up. Which tells us... that this array IS somehow correlated to the Golden Dawn system(s)? or that it's just a coincidence that breaks down when you put the Majors back in their "real" order?

Originally Posted by elvenstar

There's a lot of stuff in this thread, feedback will come, but give us some time

I hope you keep bringing it, I'm really getting a lot out of people's feedback.

Originally Posted by Scion

JEEZ but you do goodhandouts! What software are you using to design these? Lovely to look upon and insanely clear.

I have laid out the grid, although as you noted early on, when I did I realized I'd seen it referenced in a couple of older authors' books. Nevertheless I think the exploration you're doing is terrific. What's interesting is that in riffing on these ideas your system reminds me of what Wirth and Papus (et al.) did in their various alternate models. I especially like the use of this as a 7 card spread, (more than a rubric for studying the Trumps) because I'm not a fan of the post-70s Fool's Journey model; I never think of the Trumps as sequential in a narrative sense because it seems so literal and monoscopic. But by identifying a Hegelian dialectic, you've sidestepped that. Nice.

People are still here watching you dig around.

Scion

Wow, to receive such wonderful compliments AND be compelled to look up a philosophical reference both in the same paragraph. Never read Hegel, but I guess I've encountered and assimilated the concept well enough that it somehow spilled out in my improvisational tinkerings.

The software I use is CorelDRAW, v9 (I think it';s up to v12 now). I started using Corel with v1 back in 1989 and it was my primary tool for various livelihoods (such as a graphic designer, multimedia interface designer, and medical illustrator) for years. It will no doubt play a role when I eventually get around to creating a tarot deck.

Thanks for the feedback on your primary interest in spread reading. I think that ultimately most of the other material here is improvisational, fluid, speculative, associative thinking... but the labels of the "Seven Stations feel really solid.

Maybe we could try a little exercise (everyone can play along!):

Cut-and paste- between the lines below, and post back with YOUR definition of what the following positions would mean in a spread; For extra credit, how could they be arranged other than in a boring straight line?
_______________________________________________

1. Your Origin - (your definition here)
2. Your Inspiration - (your definition here)
3. Your Power - (your definition here)
4. The Turning Point - (your definition here)
5. Your Transformation - (your definition here)
6. Your Epiphany - (your definition here)
7. Your Destiny - (your definition here)

_______________________________________________

I feel a rant coming, so I'll split the post here.

[dangerdork]

If you look back in the thread, we haven't really discussed Buddha's Seven Stages of consciousness as described in Post #21. Let's throw this into the mix as well:

http://www.deeptrancenow.com/exc3_7operations.htm

Taking up our later theme of mystery religions, let's consider overall - what are mystery Religions and Secret Esoteric Societies (like O.D.O or, heck, Freemasonry) all about anyways? You're loaded up with a bunch of symbolism and ritual, and initiated into the group. Wait... couldn't that even describe the special group of... um. Tarot Card Readers?

But what's the underlying purpose of all these groups? Part of it is to feel like you're part of a Special Club, a Community. You know Secrets that "normal" people don't. But when you boil it down, what exactly are those secrets? And what are the Initiates doing with them that's so special? For the most part, I'd describe it as: 1) we want to be able to perceive the world in a deeper and more complete way - to predict the future, know what others are thinking, assure ourselves that everything will be ok. 2) we want to have some influence over events purely through the power of our faith and will. 3) We want to believe there is some Deeper Purpose and Meaning to the Universe, maybe even to the point as to an assurance that our own role in the Universe will extend beyond our own deaths.

Dangerdork Has Totally Lost It, I hear you saying. But I guess the point I'm struggling to make is this: It seems to me that the Golden Dawn and the Alchemists and the Rosicrucians and the Pythagoreans, heck the Catholics and the Muslims and Buddhists are ALL trying to address the same issues. All of those systems of thought have personae and archetypes and rituals and steps and procedures and Secrets... and ALL of those concepts can be broken down into the basic building blocks we find in the Tarot. The Tarot is a language that can be used to describe most, if not all, of the great religious and mythical and esoteric traditions.

It's like you have a little pile of those "refrigerator poetry" magnets that all say stuff like "Mother" and "Father" and "Love" and "Death" and "Hope" and "Tragedy." Of COURSE they will seem to make sense no matter how you arrange them... but what's been interesting to me here is looking at the sentences spelled out by this one particular array, and the more I look, the more they seem to resonate with SO many cultures and systems of thought stretching back thousands of years. It's like I've been playing solitaire with a deck of Cultural Anthropology Flash Cards... and I just won.

[dangerdork]

Originally Posted by rwcarter

Don't worry about that. There are more of us than there is of him. If we all gang up on him, he doesn't have a chance!

Nooooo! You're nothing but a pack of cards!

[dangerdork]

Originally Posted by Itika

My Major Arkanas seems older as Minors of same deck, I use them more, separately. Therea are more Paths or sub-decks in Major Arkana than 3. Meybe it all is already done in 1970-s and current trends are different. Let me know!

I'm not sure I understand your question this time, Itika?