Cristina Fiorini

Huck said:

And somehow it turns obvious, that inside the Charles VI deck the motiv "World" was regarded as a virtue (likely Prudentia).

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Right. This has long been pointed out by Tarot authors, including Gareth Knight and, one of my favorites, John Shephard.

Very nice, and further evidence that the Charles VI deck is of Italian origin (though that is rarely questioned in any case).

The equivalent virtues (when shown) from Amiens, Paris, Reims and Chartres Cathedrals do not, from memory and from the images I have, display similar aureoles - and that's for images both ante-dating and post-dating the Florence ones.

Interestingly, however, the quadrefoils on the Lyons Cathedral and in the 14th C. Parisian made Politiques d'Aristote ('Aristotle's Politics'), which to my understanding antedates the Florence baptistry doors, shows the same form - but not the same images, and the cardinal virtues there presented without aureoles.

It is interesting in that the heptagonal aureoles would make more 'sense' than hexagonal ones if considering that other virtues all hinge on the cardinal and theological ones - but of course hexagonal ones are far easier to render. Also, though perhaps all too obvious to mention but still important, the polygonal aureoles distinguishes the person from the allegory: the first has circular form, the second polygonal (this may be taken as no more than a note to myself which, by having written, becomes easier to recall).

The precision of the similar quadrefoils, however, arose my interest more so than the other points raised, no matter how intrinsincally interesting the thread is!

Ross G Caldwell said:

No - the Gringonneur cards have 16 Trumps and a Page of Swords. What would threaten the 5x14 theory is Fiorini's (or even my) suggested date - 1420 (or c. 1450). This "threat" in turn depends on whether you believe that the decks in question were "standard" tarot decks, with 22 trumps. Huck doesn't believe that, so it doesn't threaten the theory.

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Thanks Ross- I understand now.

How can you tell they have the same border? I know my eyes are bad, but... I don't see quite the same pattern on the outermost part. I agree they look old, and are worthy of further study, but as far as I know, they have not been published or even mentioned in research anywhere else (except for maybe a mention of a design of a particular card).

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A VERY big magnifying glass- Some have punched looking frames but most have the elongated angled S. It would be hard to investigate given they are now nearly destroyed.
As to the Crown that Huck linked for Sigimund? is a standard crown that you see everywhere is what I meant. I was not meaning to compare different schools of crowns.

That type of border was obviously standard somewhere, and it seems likely Florence at a particular time or with a particular group of cardmakers. But what do you mean by "tooled"?

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I think Scapini did a frame around his cards as a nod to the metal tooled/punched/embossed of Italian cards- it did not quite come off, but the illusion of metal work is there. When you gild on paper you use a little tool to get the punched look; like the silver work of Mexico on paper-from the Europeans.
By the way I did a search and found your post explaining the 6 points of consideration of the 5X14 theory. It helped a lot. Many thanks. I was not saying you were obscure on this thread- just difficult to find the salient points.
~Rosanne

Regarding the halos, particularly the halo on the Charles VI World card, I found that in depictions of the Triumph of Fame, from 1449 to 1460 in Florenence (from what I've found), the figure of Fame is frequently shown with the polygonal halo.

Birthtray of Lorenzo di Medici (Giovanni di Ser Giovanni), 1449 -



(article to this at the Met. Museum
http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ho/08/eustc/ho_1995.7.htm )

A Triumph of Fame by Pesellino (he worked from 1422-1457, Florentine)


http://www.italica.rai.it/rinascimento/iconografia/prot_1095.htm
text -
http://www.italica.rai.it/rinascimento/categorie/fama.htm

Another, also attributed to Pesellino -


http://www.artnet.com/artist/686022/francesco-di-stefano-pesellino.html

Finally, one by Apollonio di Giovanni (Florentine, c. 1415-1465)



This last one is part of six illustrations for Petrarch's triumphs, dated to around 1460. They can be seen in color at the Riccardiana site, where the manuscript is kept - I can't link directly to the page, since it's some kind of Flash reader page, but follow these directions (you *must* see it as they present it, it is well worth it)

***edited to add: Robert has kindly found and posted the entire image in post #36 above***

Go to -
http://miniature.riccardiana.firenze.sbn.it/sistema_ricerca.asp

in the right hand search menu, under "Miniatore", type "Apollonio".

You will get four (4) pages of image-links (most of the pages are Virgil illustrations).
Go to page 4; the Petrarch Trionfo images are the last 6; Fame is image number 92.
Click on the little magnifying glass/sheet of paper.

(note the mispelling - "GROLIA" for "GLORIA")

Apollonio also did allegories of the Virtues, and uses the same polygonal halos -
Fortitude


Prudence


This style of halo is strongly (uniquely perhaps?) associated with Florence, with the Virtues, and as Michael has shown, goes back to the early 14th century in that city. Some of the figures seem modeled on the Baptistry doors. But no one has noted the halo's use on the allegory of Fame in depictions of the Triumphs before, that I know.

Not on the other allegories of Triumphs however - only the Virtues and Fame.

Ross

(edited to add - those last two links are too long I guess. I'll have to go rename them, etc. Until then, just google Apollonio di Giovanni in images, they're among his works that come up)

Hi Michael,

mjhurst said:

P.S. I looked up the terms, FYI. Halo or nimbus is just what you would expect. They might be circular, cross-shaped or triangular for you-know-who, square (usually for living persons including the patrons of a work), and polygonal (sometimes including square but often six-sided) for the virtues. An aureole is a radiance that encompasses the enter figure, and a mandorla is a special, almond-shaped form of aureole. Finally, a glory is a radiance that surrounds both the halo/nimbus and the aureole. Or, if you're not so pedantic, they are all used rather freely.

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Heaven forbid! Here in History, we have a reputation to uphold . Thank you for the correction and precision.

Ross

Ross,

The Fame image is amazingly like the cards. WOW!!!



Sign me up.

Ross G Caldwell said:

This style of halo is strongly (uniquely perhaps?) associated with Florence, with the Virtues, and as Michael has shown, goes back to the early 14th century in that city. Some of the figures seem modeled on the Baptistry doors. But no one has noted the halo's use on the allegory of Fame in depictions of the Triumphs before, that I know.

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Thank you again Ross!
I am very grateful for all the new information and images! This "Florence track" is the greatest surprise I have seen, since I have an interest in Tarot History!

I think we can say that the polygonal halo denotes "positive" allegories: we have Virtues (Charles VI), Fame (Apollonio and Charles VI), Arts (Giovanni Del Ponte).

Marco

PS: I also found a nice crown on the Riccardiana site: "Priamo veste le armi" last link in page two of the Apollonio search

The image also reminds me of the Chariot cards in Visconti decks, in that they have a female charioteer...

Visconti-Sforza


Cary-Yale

Naples (= Alfonso the Magnomious) had a Fame favor:

1423 ... Alfonso: triumphal event with an elephant (symbol of Fame)
1443 ... Alfonso: triumphal entry into the city, Fame is focussed (with great participance of a Florence delegation)
1449 ... Fame ordered by Pietro de Medici, father of Lorenzo in Florence
1450 ... Peace treaty Florence / Trionfi card productions
1475 ... Fame Trionfo marriage Naples daughter (Camilla / Costanzo Sforza)
1476 ... Petrarca show at marriage Naples daughter (naturally with Fame)
1492 ... Fame indoor Trionfo in Naples called Triumph of Fame

Minchiate (Florence): Fame highest trump
... but for the 16 Charles VI trumps: we don't see Fame ... but World is a (only) a Virtue

Generally Florence had an interest to keep (also) good relations to Naples, so likely that's the reason, why Florence favored also Fame as highest trump

***

In contrast to Milan:

1441 (?) Cary-Yale had a Fame, but ...
1443: Alfonso took the symbol
1452: (?) highest trump is Judgment or Angel in Bembo Cards
.... later with the 6 cards "World = Prudentia is added
.... later World is the highest card, Angel is the second

in contrast to Ferrara:
World is high (or was it still seen as Pridentia?), but Iustitia (favored by Borso) is second

in contrast to (late) Bologna: Angel is high (? a symbol of the Chiesa ?)