What makes a reading "accurate" to you?

Grizabella

magenta said:
By the way, I am not a professional reader so I am not personally invested in this issue...I am actually a sitter and I do expect some level of accuracy in a reading, otherwise I would go and see a counselor or a therapist if I was only looking for some emotional comfort or to talk my issues trough...

I'm glad you made this statement. It's off topic since the question for this thread was "what makes a reading accurate to you?" but it does apply to other discussions we've had about readers trying to use counselling techniques in tarot readings. We should start another thread with this. :)

You make good points about wanting some degree of accuracy from readings in order to want to come back to the same reader. From the sitter's point of view, what do you consider to be "accurate"? Predictions made about your future? Knowing things they couldn't know about you and your situation outside of the cards? You're a good person to ask about this since you're a sitter.

For me as a reader, I guess I just take for granted that I'm going to "know" things that will strike home with the sitter if I'm supposed to know them. I don't worry about it. I just know it will be there when it's supposed to be. I don't count up my "accuracy points" or work on some sort of exercises to try to become more accurate. I just do what I do, trusting that I'll be given what I'm supposed to know when I'm supposed to know it so I can pass it on to the sitter.
 

Baroli

Solitaire said:
I don't count up my "accuracy points" or work on some sort of exercises to try to become more accurate. I just do what I do, trusting that I'll be given what I'm supposed to know when I'm supposed to know it so I can pass it on to the sitter.


Exactly. I just read the cards.


Baroli
 

Sophie

magenta said:
I think there is a middle way and in that middle way there is the possibility for a reader to have a healthy self esteem and feel good about his/her level of accuracy without risking to become a self absorbed, egotistical monster that does not care about the "sitter" and has lost compassion and what is good and holy in life. [...]
Is it possible for a person to be good at what they do and feel good about it without necessarily becoming a heartless egomaniac?
Absolutely it is! And a good tarot reader will do just that. Accuracy is an important part of what makes a good tarot reader, but it's not the only element. You might see accuracy as the brain of the reader, while compassion is the heart. In a good reader, the two coexist and function together.


I think we all agree that the client, the sitter counts for something, but what I don't understand is why granting the reader also the aknowledgement for doing a good job then becomes this issue about ego and lack of compassion and "not helping"?
I agree with you that it's a puritanical, calvinist throw-back. People who feel good about themselves and their talents arouse jealousy. In the old days, they'd say "he's too big for his boots". Nowadays they blame the ego. The truth is, in order to hone your skill at anything, you need to take some kind of pride in your achievements. And one essential skill for a tarot reader - of any diviner - is accuracy in seeing facts and truths about their querent's life, past, present and future (that, by the way, goes as much for self-readings as for reading for others).


magenta said:
Can a Tarot reader be accurate and at the same time care for the sitter?
Or is such option impossible to concieve?
It's not only possible to conceive, it's essential to aim for in a reader.


No, helping is not accuracy, I am sorry...you can be helpful by listening and
assisting the sitter understand the problem or the situation better, but accuracy is another thing....accuracy means predicting or stating precise facts....we are misxing two different things in these discussion, both important , but both different things...
BRAVO! Absolutely! Although accuracy is helpful, not all help is to be equated with accuracy. My first tarot reader was very accurate in her reading of the cards. And when I sat there miserably, she was also helpful in making suggestions how to deal with the situation, and with what was making me miserable. Together - her accuracy and her kindness - made it a memorable reading experience I remember to this day, and one which had far reaching consequences for me.

I don't think accuracy removes free will from anyone. What removes free will is telling people how to act and what to do in a directive manner: and even then, a querent can leave you and go out and do exactly what they please. They generally do, you know.

If I tell you an accurate future, you then have choices because you know more. Ignorance is not bliss in this difficult world. To come back to my "closing down workplace" example - which I drew from life - by giving accurate information about the future, I am giving my sitter - or myself if I am reading for myself - the choice as to how to react to that event in advance. I am actually enhancing their free will by giving them more time to prepare for an upcoming situation they don't control. Same thing if I decide to place money on the markets: if I am accurate in predicting the way this or that investment will perform, it stands to reason I have more, not less, opportunity to exercise my free will. Therefore accuracy is at the centre of all tarot readings.

Quite frankly, as a querent, I don't bother with readers who give me a pile of mush, and who are not accurate. And if their accuracy doesn't matter to them, I start to worry, because that's what I am after. Accuracy in reading the past, the present and the future. Accuracy in bringing some light to circumstances of my life I might not wholly understand, because part of it is hidden from me (either because I am not told, or because it's buried in my unconscious).

In times of great trouble and confusion, querents come to tarot readers for accuracy, because they need some kind of rudder or port to aim for in the middle of the raging sea in which they find themselves. They want that little bit of certainty in a life that has become terrifyingly uncertain. Not everything is a matter of free choice. We also need some solid things that exist outside ourselves: and no matter whether we want them or not: they exist anyway.
 

The crowned one

I think it would vary by reading for the person I am reading for, they may think accuracy is great advice and not little facts or things I pick up on.

That said, For myself accuracy in a reading is like accuracy in shooting... I am looking for information bulls-eyes: present, past and future based when I read for others. That is why I ask for feedback here. That is what accuracy is for me in a reading I do for others but that does not always effect the usefulness of my reading. Advice or guidance can be more important then telling someone the name of their turtle, or the day their boyfriend will come crawling back.

Telling them those thing is pretty impressive and accurate in my books, and I am very happy when I do... but the information is close to useless, comparable to shooting a coin out of the air. Cool, amazing and accurate, but what did you learn, how has it helped you as one watching the coin being shot? Not at all, just like me telling you the name of your turtle. It impresses, and it is accurate, but does not help.

Accurate advice is likely better then accurate facts in a stand alone head to head. Most people know the facts when they come to us for a reading, but not how to move forward. A blend of the both factual hits and solid empowerment is ideal to me.
 

Sophie

The crowned one said:
Telling them those thing is pretty impressive and accurate in my books, and I am very happy when I do... but the information is close to useless, comparable to shooting a coin out of the air. Cool, amazing and accurate, but what did you learn, how has it helped you as one watching the coin being shot? Not at all, just like me telling you the name of your turtle. It impresses, and it is accurate, but does not help.
I don't think that is true for people who are standing in the middle of darkness they don't control, and who want - need - to know that there is light at the end of the tunnel. If you can predict that in two years' time they are going to have a major career break, and it will change their life and bring them to another country, then you are giving them that light, something to look forward to, and also, giving them something that will help their choices.

What is shooting a coin to you can be a life-saver for them. So it's up to tarot readers to learn how to shoot coins. Because it can be important for their querents.
 

VGimlet

Out of curiosity, I went back and did a quick accuracy check of my three card daily draws. My accuracy wasn't bad - although I will spare you the mathmatical details. :p
But - what does it all mean?

Some of the things I deemed as innacurate at the time, or just didn't understand were often part of a larger pattern during major events. I didn't realize this until I went back and looked over my readings. This was actually the most interesting part of the whole exercise to me.

I have my sitters write down and keep track of readings for themselves. (Umbrae mentioned doing this years ago - and I took that idea to heart.)

Although interesting - I don't really care about statistical accuracy as much as how my sitters felt about my readings. I am not a professional - generally I read for feedback.

If I truly didn't feel I was helping my sitters, I might re-evaluate how I was reading the cards. My readings are generally more about possibilites and giving folks a heads up than specifics. Although sometimes those pop up. My hope is my sitters feel empowered to make positive choices after we finish.
 

The crowned one

Fudugazi said:
I don't think that is true for people who are standing in the middle of darkness they don't control, and who want - need - to know that there is light at the end of the tunnel. If you can predict that in two years' time they are going to have a major career break, and it will change their life and bring them to another country, then you are giving them that light, something to look forward to, and also, giving them something that will help their choices.

What is shooting a coin to you can be a life-saver for them. So it's up to tarot readers to learn how to shoot coins. Because it can be important for their querents.

Good point and I do agree, when you/we are right future based facts are great to have. Imagine the damage you will do if you are wrong, but that is a different post.( My post was meant to be taken as a whole not broken into parts ;) )I see where you are coming from and you are 100% right, but I hope you can see my overstated point too. :)

I actually always try read this way and on a good day can and do. I think I was doing a bit of alternative thinking blended with devil's advocate here.
 

Sophie

The crowned one said:
I hope you can see my overstated point too. :)
Absolutely! It's pretty useless for a querent to be told the name of their grandmother or the date of their boyfriend's return if they already know these facts :D - it might convince them of the reader's accuracy, but it won't actually help them face the situation they are in. I am talking about the useful kind of accuracy - the one that opens up vistas for the querent or yourself or gives sound warnings.
 

Umbrae

It seems to me, in reviewing the thread, that there are essentially two different ‘sides’ to the discussion (mind you, this is a ‘hasty generalization’).

One side states that Accuracy is important, and that ego should not be shunned (after all, it is agreed that ego is what allows most to follow basic hygiene suggestions).

The other side states that Accuracy is not important, because when it becomes a goal, it may lead to narcissism and arrogance.

One side may believe that Accuracy is the goad that makes us better readers.

The other may believe that when Accuracy becomes the goal, that the reader may begin to rely on “cold readingtechniques, leading to fraudulent behaviors which color the reputations of the rest of the professional field.

I don’t believe we really are too diverse in our opinions. However we are diverse in the language used to discuss them.

Now in 21 Ways to Read a Tarot Card starting with page 275 we find Appendix H: Traps & Solutions. Its well worth study, in fact it is well worth its own study group! There’s a lot there about ‘ego traps’, “Assuming that everything is literal”, “Feeling you have to answer the question as stated” “Thinking you know what’s going on”… “Making assumptions about a card’s referent”

These are ego traps for the reader. When accuracy is any part of your reading ‘goal’ or agenda…your reading may very well suffer.
 

Sophie

Umbrae said:
These are ego traps for the reader. When accuracy is any part of your reading ‘goal’ or agenda…your reading may very well suffer.
I'm afraid I disagree with you - and with Mary Greer - on this point. It's obvious we don't know everything - but we are discussing accuracy, not omniscience. But that's OK. There are enough opinions to go round, a good reader will help querents and get repeat business regardless of the state of his or her ego. I can live with my ego as well as you seem to be able to live with yours ;)

The reading goal is not singular: it goes without saying that a reading should be empowering. I am saying that it cannot empower if it's inaccurate, and so whether accuracy is a reading goal or not, it is an essential ingredient in a good reading, just as flour is an essential ingredient in bread.

To quote Magenta, if I want a counsellor, I go and see a counsellor, not a tarot reader. That's the case for many people nowadays. But I think part of the divide might be a cultural thing, and depends a lot on the status of divination in any one country or culture. A lot of the mush that passes for tarot readings wouldn't pass muster in countries where divination is taken seriously.