Protection from a Pending Spell...

NightQueen said:

... what must she do wait to be in the centre of her whole world crushing down around her? accept unnecessary pain in her life? turmoil? ......

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NightQueen,
I think you really misunderstood what I was saying. I believe that it is more productive to defuse negative energy rather than send it back where it came from. I also said in my original message that this might not work for everyone. But, nowhere did I even hint that anyone should just do nothing and accept it as you have implied. I am sorry if you misunderstood and thought that was my position.

Fudugazi said:

.....Think of it as a gun richoteting: if a shooter shoots you deliberately, and you have a shield upon which the bullet ricochets, and the bullet hits the shooter or someone else - the person responsible is the shooter. Nobody else, and certainly not the person wearing the body armour.

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Fudugazi,
I believe that if you wore body armour WITH THE INTENT of the bullet reflecting back to, and harming, the shooter, then yes, I do believe that ties you into the negative karma. Likewise, if you put up an energy shield with a reflective surface WITH THE INTENT of the energy being reflected back to, and harming the originator then that pulls you into the negative energy and makes you partially responsible. What other reason would there be for putting up a reflective surface unless you were hoping it would go back where it came from? Knowing that a reflective surface will send the negativity back where it came from has a 'revenge' quality to it that I think it is best to avoid. I believe that we all must take responsibility for our actions. If something I do (or even something that I fail to do) causes someone else to be harmed, then I am responsible. I try very hard to live by the code "First, do no harm." I frequently fail at this but I do try. Again, I fully understand that this might not work for other people.

distinguishing intent to harm from self-protection

Yes, if the intent is to harm another - any other - by one's protection, then that goes beyond self-protection and into the realm of intent to harm. It can be a fuzzy line between the two, however. If I shield myself because someone is attacking me, in the middle of a crisis I might not have the time or wit to make nice philosophical distinctions - I just want to save my skin! These are things well known to criminal and army lawyers - and in a real situation, it's typically very difficult to figure out exactly where self-preservation ends and intent to harm begins. The same, I believe, goes for magic.

Even the person involved might not be 100% sure, because in the middle of an emergency, your stress hormones kick in and - literally - take over your brain. Once the emergency past, you might have trouble remembering exactly what your intent was. You take moral responsibility for your actions, of course - but in some cases, you might have trouble figuring out what these were.

I believe "karma" (what I'd call divine will), knows all this. After all, we were created with stress hormones that react in a certain way. Where I think we step clearly in the realm of intent to harm is if - quite coldly and detachedly - we put up a shield that is also a weapon intending to harm another.

The aim of anyone should really be to keep a cool head in emergencies so they can avoid deliberately harming another while protecting themselves - that goes for magic and any other situation. Hence the need - in daily life, and far away from emergencies - to train the mind to detachment and rational appraisal, and the body to be able to deal with crazy situations without losing your sense of proportion and your moral guidance (e.g. by means of meditation and grounding, but also - training in ethics, facing up to one's mistakes, etc. etc.). But I don't think we can say that because someone hasn't got that type of personal resources and in the middle of a panic protected themselves in a way that harmed another, they bear the same responsibility as if they had deliberately set about harming someone.


BTW - I don't subscribe to the "rule of three", though I do believe that bad and good deeds eventually come back to you in some form or another - though not necessarily in a simple tit-for-tat pay-back (or tit-tit-tit-for tat ) .

Long, long before I became acquainted with AT and the wonderful souls (Big Wink to NightQueen) who have very generously and with KINDNESS assisted me in becoming the stronger woman that I am, I was incredibly, incredible gullible and fragile beyond belief. I really,really did not think anyone could put a curse/hex/spell to damage the life of another human being. Life though gave me many a heartache and some very tough life lessons. I have, since I joined AT, had my heartaches with people whose intentions were not of the greatest kind...However...the individual in question and the reason for my immediate attempt at seeking help/knowledge practices harmful magic. As soon as I learned this person was vengeful I knew I had to seek protection immediately. I have been IMMENSELY blessed to have had AMAZING guidance and protection from my sisters/brothers here at AT (you know who you are) and yet I cant help but think of all those times in the past where I was a lonesome soul and probably the easy target of many a malicious thought.
You guys/gals have no idea How grateful I am to have you in my life. All I know is that I am blessed and immensely grateful to have been able for the FIRST TIME in my life to nip this malignant energy in the bud.

Blessed Be!

raeanne said:

. . . I believe that if you wore body armour WITH THE INTENT of the bullet reflecting back to, and harming, the shooter, then yes, I do believe that ties you into the negative karma. Likewise, if you put up an energy shield with a reflective surface WITH THE INTENT of the energy being reflected back to, and harming the originator then that pulls you into the negative energy and makes you partially responsible. What other reason would there be for putting up a reflective surface unless you were hoping it would go back where it came from? Knowing that a reflective surface will send the negativity back where it came from has a 'revenge' quality to it that I think it is best to avoid. I believe that we all must take responsibility for our actions. If something I do (or even something that I fail to do) causes someone else to be harmed, then I am responsible. I try very hard to live by the code "First, do no harm." I frequently fail at this but I do try. Again, I fully understand that this might not work for other people.

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Could we take a realistic look at "first do no harm" and other such sayings designed to make sure that we carefully consider all of our words, actions and thoughts before proceeding with them?

Have you ever competed for and gotten a job? Yes? Well then, you harmed those other folks who were competing and were not successful.

Have you ever made an offer for the sale of a house that was successful out of all the others?

Ever go to an auction and make a successful bid?

Ever slapped a mosquito?

Do you have a child? To what lengths would you go to protect that child from someone headed toward them, intent on physically harming them? Would you fight to the death to protect your child?

And yes, I hear the wheels turning now. . . you likely are just itching to post a response, telling me that these are not the same thing.

When you liken them to someone protecting themselves from negativity directed at them, then yes, I think they are. Doing no harm should be accompanied by a modicum of common sense.

I'll tell you one thing, I would fight demons to protect my children thats for sure, sharpchick I agree with you, but in response to the other posts, "sheilding" I believe will not protect one from black magik, I don't know how familiar people are with black magik, but evil and disgusting things are used, such as animal hair, human hair, blood, nails, even some may go to the extent of digging up graves and taking corpse bones and other things....black magik is very powerful especially if the person who is doing it , knows how to do it well... no sheild will protect you as once they put together their horrible ingredients, the darkest of energies are called upon and sent to the "victim" sometimes black magik cannot even be removed unless its by the person who cast the spell, if they ever have mercy to set you free, but more than likely a whyte witch can correct and reverse black magik, Ive done so many times, black magik varies from culture to culture so I cannot speak on behalf of all they types of black magik there is, but I do know its never good, cursing women to never concieve, sickness, divorce and even death is usually the outcome for this type of magik, talismans can be made to protect from magik so that it cannot reach you, but again this must be made by someone who has knowledge and power to do so, my grandfather was a muslim Imam and during his life time I remember him being mainly called upon for these talismans, Its very real, and very scary indeed

love you WonderWoman

Blessed Be

Hi Sharpchick,
When given a choice between putting up a protective shield with a reflective surface that will send the negative energy back from where it came from to harm that individual OR putting up a reflective shield that will dissipate the energy, I believe the better choice is the later. Given the choice to discipline my children with a spanking or with time out, I would choose time out. Given the choice to sell my home to a family at a fair price or to a drug dealer for a greater profit, I would choose the family. Given the choice to kill a bug or catch it and put it outside, I will choose to catch it and put it outside. These are all choices that I have made. Life doesn’t always give us choices. When it does, I try to choose the one that will cause the least harm. As I said …“I frequently fail” but I still try.

Fudugazi said:

I strongly disagree with that view, which is your moral opinion, but not everybody's. My own moral view is that the initiator of the bad energy is always responsible for that bad energy and for whatever it might do. Think of it as a gun richoteting: if a shooter shoots you deliberately, and you have a shield upon which the bullet ricochets, and the bullet hits the shooter or someone else - the person responsible is the shooter. Nobody else, and certainly not the person wearing the body armour.

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Agreed.

Send me a dead fish in the mail and I have no qualms about writing "return to sender" on the box.

Magical ethics, regular ethics, religious ethics - they should all be the same. Otherwise you get hypocrisy.

raeanne said:

When given a choice between putting up a protective shield with a reflective surface that will send the negative energy back from where it came from to harm that individual OR putting up a reflective shield that will dissipate the energy, I believe the better choice is the later.

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Who says it's "either/or"?

stella01904 said:

Send me a dead fish in the mail and I have no qualms about writing "return to sender" on the box.

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If you write "return to sender" on the box, what will be the sender's next move? It is very possible that this action will just escalate the situation. Instead of a dead fish, they might send you a dead cat, or perhaps kill your cat. What's to be gained by sending it back? How does this action benefit you and the community you live in?

stella01904 said:

Who says it's "either/or"?

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No one. There are an infinate number of choices. My point was that you can choose to act in a way that agrivates the situation or in a way that defuses the situation.

Psychic self-defense is an essential skill, imo, and that's basically what we're talking about here -- the ability to deflect energy (be it spells or whatnot) away so they do not harm us. The white light technique is the most common and there are a billion variations on how to visualize that. For me the easiest is the "infuse and forget about it" method. I have 2 objects in my house that perform this function. One is for harm that would come to me on a energy/psychic level, the other protects and warns of harm coming to me on a physical level. The item can be anything.

I learned about the technique years ago from a friend. She was married, often home alone because her husband traveled, etc. She owned a very large, very lifelike statue of a black panther. Someone close to her put protective energy into that statue to serve as a sort of guardian for the house. Some years later, she dreamt of that cat prowling her house. It woke her up and after a few minutes, she realized someone was trying to break into her house, and was able to call 911 before anything happened.

So you find an object -- for me I collect figures of Gargoyles and dragons and what are Gargoyles if not figures of protection? -- you sit with it in your hand, mediate on what you want it to do, tell it where to draw its energy for the task (always from the earth, not from you), you thank it for its help, and you tuck it somewhere you feel appropriate in your house or bedroom.

I've given such gifts to other people and in the few times I've needed them... they've definitely come through, often coming to me in dreams to signal the danger.

I never worry about someone sending me harm. I rarely worry about physical danger in my home. This method works for me.

JT