Discussion Group - Pentacles Overview

The pentacles in the RWS deck are depicted as coins with pentacles on them, making the elemental association of the suit, earth, one of the clearest and most logical associations from my perspective. Coins, or money, are so connected to physical things in our world today that earth is a very intuitive association. Money also grows, ebbs, and flows like many other things in the material world.

How do you all see pentacles and their connection to earth?

Poledra

Just a comment.

We are moving towards "money" becoming an electronic transaction -- applicable to purchasing, investing, financial actions of all kinds. In fifty years when the actual use of money may be a memory, how will our view and use of the Pentacle-cards change?

Acquiring the provision of services seems quite divorced from the physical world in so many cases. Will "support" become a stronger component of the Pentacle cards? Will that affect some of the Water-Cups cards? This series of discussions may give us a lot to think about if we expand our view of tarot by considering how the past may be modified by the future. Dave

The transitions in traditional art forms as our lifestyle moves further and further away from traditional is something that has always interested me. I think this is a really interesting point, will pentacles retain their traditional meaning with people having to learn extensive amounts of history or will the meanings change to keep up with our modern lifestyle? Of course, modern and future deck creators might also change the way pentacles are depicted, who knows!

Thought provoking!

Maybe, pentacles are about the things we place a high value on in the physical world... the golden coins, proof of purity in one sense... and the cost... everything has a price of some sort.

(this isn't counting US coins, which aren't pure/solid anything, but plated)... or maybe it does count... as facades.

Well, the principal is the same back then, when you had gold coins, to now, where you have ATM's, internet banking, phone banking, keycards and credit cards. You need to work, or somehow get gifted through inheritance or whatever else, to have money. Then that is what is used for you to purchase all the things that is necessary, as well as some luxuries, if it is afforded.

A lot of times, annoying as it may seem, but someone's "worth" is actually viewed as how much money they have, and how many possessions they may have.

Basically, it boils down to the fact that you need to work to get money so that you can purchase and pay for all the goods and services that you need to survive. The more money you have, the more chance you have of enjoying your life, sure you may not be happy, but money is a powerful tool, and it says a lot more than one thinks. That has been the case, and is most definitely is the case. And something which is never going to change, in my opinion.

I see pentacles as pentagrams (a magical symbol) enclosed in a protective circle. Although pentacles can indeed be associated with money, I think they are so much more. What is the five pointed star? Is it us? And why the circle (why does it enclose the star)? Have you noticed that it's a double circle on the ace of pentacles?

This suit depicts the magical reality of the physical world, everything that we see, touch, smell etc. as being real. This suit portrays the culmination of the act of creation, the end product.

Shaymus

Pentacles I think are shown as coins because it is something we all can relate to. It is tangible and connects us to those elements of the material world that the earth element represents for us. So the coins represent for us money, but also material resources and material values - those things we need in our everyday life, - job, food, house, car but also our physical well being.

The Pentacle itself is a five pointed star and this could be related to our five senses and so allude to how we may perceive things and what we learn from our experiences and as pentacles are also about the manifestation of ideas, feelings and actions, it could also be suggesting that from these perceptions and experiences what we actually manage to create for ourselves.

As to the circle which contains the pentacle in Robert M/ Places Book Tarot, History, Symbolism and Divination he informs us that "Levi referred to the traditional suit of coins as"pentacles," meaning "talismans" Waite/Smith transformed the talismans into actual magical pentacles with a five pointed star in a circle on each one, but the themes expressed in this suit are still connected to the original suit symbol, the coin.:

Talisman ~ an object typically an inscribed ring or stone, that is thought to have magic powers or bring good luck - so you see Waite/Smith have combined the circles/rings with the pentacles to I suppose indicate some mystical aura to the suit.

Nevertheless the Pentacles connection to the Earth element for me is a representation of all that is tangible including ourself as in physical/body.

~HoneyBea ~

the suite of pentacles is a representation of worth and value... of yourself, of others, of things physical, spiritual and psychological. I dont just associate it will material existence.

dadsnook2000 said:

We are moving towards "money" becoming an electronic transaction -- applicable to purchasing, investing, financial actions of all kinds. In fifty years when the actual use of money may be a memory, how will our view and use of the Pentacle-cards change?

Acquiring the provision of services seems quite divorced from the physical world in so many cases. Will "support" become a stronger component of the Pentacle cards? Will that affect some of the Water-Cups cards? This series of discussions may give us a lot to think about if we expand our view of tarot by considering how the past may be modified by the future. Dave

Click to expand...

Hi, new here. This post caught my attention, so I thought I'd chime in (as good a point as any).

Great insight, dadsnook2000.

What if, instead of trying to force the original "earth" nature of the pentacle to change (which, I don't believe is your intent), we look at each suit as also having more or less of the qualities of the other suits, perhaps at different times and different ages? This way, the pentacles could remain associated with coins, which are associated with matter, but that in different eras (piscean, impending aquarian) the relative degree of the suit's fundamental nature takes on more water, air, fire, etc., qualities, and so with the other suits, as well?

So, as money becomes less gold (or copper, or paper) and more conceptual, it's the pentacle mixing more with the qualities of "air" or intellectual--not so much something you can actually touch and weigh, but as something you think about (or computers think about). You don't have it in your pocket now, it's an abstraction, air, and pentacles has become more "sword-like". But, this doesn't mean it will always be that way, and that's why I would consider each suit as having some of the qualities of the other suits, rather than to change the meaning of a suit to "suit the age". In two hundred years, maybe currency will move away from the "airy" nature of the debit card to something more fiery, or watery, and so forth.

The degree of a suit might be modified by the archetype of an era (or aion). This is exceedingly generalized, but it's possible that in the Aries aion of the Roman conquest, commerce had more of the qualities of gold and fire, and then came the Piscean aion, and commerce looked more like silver, and fluid like water? Now, on the cusp of the Aquarian aion, commerce and the circulation of survival and society are transparent and airy.

update May 1:
The suit is influenced by the natures of the other suits with the transition of each successive aion. Kind of like your fundamental sun sign nature (Gemini) is influenced by the different times of the year, instead of remaining permanently static.


Just some theoretical ramblings. Great subject, the R-W discussion overall.

I see the pentacles as representing coins, which in turn represent money and the material things that money can provide. As we live in a material world and need at least some material things for our survival, it is very easy for me to connect the pentacles with our earthly existence and the element earth.

I'm just a beginner, but I see the pentacles as representing something more than simply coins or our physical existence. Every card contains something else in the background, a road or a mountain for example, as if to remind us that there is more in life than money and the things it can provide.

Regarding the use of the pentacle symbol on the card, it's true that our present age is moving swiftly away from the use of coins and banknotes. Certainly, I never seem to ever have any "real" money on me, except for a few coins that can't buy much at all. I don't, however, think that this progression to an electronic media will affect the interpretation of the RWS pentacles. The pictures have a distinct medieval flavour, and at that time money comprised almost entirely of coins. An in-depth knowledge of history isn't necessary to recognise this. Watching just one movie about Robin Hood would explain it all.