Card XV - the Devil - face on the belly

mac22

OK, I got questions. Where did this tradition of the face on the belly of Satan come from? Are the animal antlers on Noblet's Devil a blending of the Pagan traditions of Herne, Cernunnos or Derg Corra into the new faith?

Thanks.

Mac22
 

ihcoyc

The face on the Devil's belly is fairly common in medieval European imagery. In this picture:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...._and_the_Devil_Cod._Pal._germ._137_f216v.jpg

the Devil appears before Pope Sylvester II. The usual understanding was that the Devil had a voracious appetite for human sins; in the Vulgate he's said to be quaerens quem devoret, seeking those whom he can devour. (1 Pet. 5:8)

Did Cernunnos or Herne have faces in their bellies?
 

mac22

ihcoyc said:
The face on the Devil's belly is fairly common in medieval European imagery. In this picture:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...._and_the_Devil_Cod._Pal._germ._137_f216v.jpg

the Devil appears before Pope Sylvester II. The usual understanding was that the Devil had a voracious appetite for human sins; in the Vulgate he's said to be quaerens quem devoret, seeking those whom he can devour. (1 Pet. 5:8)

Did Cernunnos or Herne have faces in their bellies?


Neither Cernunnos or Herne had faces on their belly.

Mac22
 

eugim

Hello Mac22 and ihcoyc :
You Mac22 brought to us a very interesting topic.
One can see only on Vieville deck (as far I know) not only the belly but virtually his whole body with faces.
For me this is an allegory of the Matter,so created by God the faces could mean the intelligent intrinsic and hide essence of it.
Of course,as the ihcoyc image attached shows (By the way... very,very wonderful ihcoyc,as usual...), that the Matter so of the Universe and that of ourselves must "return to the Creator" spiritual enriched by the work of the Soul.
(Anima Mundi and our Soul both along.) // So both together.

This Soul on a biblical lexicon mean is no other than Lucifer,so the Angel that had fall,so the Soul incarnated.
The purpose ?
The return of the Matter to the Spirit with all the experience achievement done.

Eugim
 

wytchwood

I've often wondered about this myself, and the eyes in the kneecaps. Watching with interest :)

Zoe xx
 

eugim

Hello Mr wytchwood :
I come from a distant land so I am too far from the "Top of the world".
The point is that from here I couldn t go to the next library to "get it" a serious book...
So I am a Web dependent Man ...

My friendly hello...

Eugim
 

Moonbow

Robert O'Neil has an excellent section on the Devil on Tarot.com, showing various pieces of artwork and cards. According to him there is an illuminated initial (Voelkle and L'Engle 1998 p. 262) of 1470 which shows the eagle talons and a face at the genitals.

http://www.tarot.com/about-tarot/library/boneill/devil

The Contrasting Dodal and Conver thread about the Devil, here on Aeclectic is also a good read and moved on from just the Dodal and Conver to show examples of other cards and images:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=77067&page=1&pp=10

I also attach The Paris Tarot:


picture1ml2.png




I'm curious about the Devil's hat and where that originated, but perhaps that's a different thread....
 

ihcoyc

The Paris Tarot also tends to make clear that one typical place you find an extra bestial face on the Devil in these images is in his crotch; they seem to want to emphasize the consuming nature of his sexuality. By contrast, the Conver Devil could be read as androgynous, with both breasts and male genitalia, clearly depicted.

Now, the usual source for the depiction of the Devil as horns is typically taken to be Pan; this Roman mosaic could easily pass as a portrait:



On the other hand, while Pan typically has horns, Cernunnos specifically has antlers:



The Cernunnos image seems to be made to deliberately establish kinship with the deer, whose antlers are almost identical to the God's.

Now, the horns on the Tarot of Paris Devil are rather subtle, but he does seem to be wearing a beret of some sort. In the Conver Marseilles, the Devil definitely has antlers rather than horns, and they seem to be worn on a helmet or bonnet. Perhaps some kind of theatrical costume or horned helmet is meant to be portrayed?
 

Bernice

In the Conver Marseilles, the Devil definitely has antlers rather than horns, and they seem to be worn on a helmet or bonnet. Perhaps some kind of theatrical costume or horned helmet is meant to be portrayed?

Blow me down - a Viking!
But I don't think they did wear horned hats - hollywood thing.

Bee
 

rox

devil's second face

Flornoy situates this factor within the context of medieval Compagnonnage:


This second face on the Devil's belly brings to mind the instruction in the fraternities concerning the "sense" of a stone. Whether it"attracts" or "repels" the mason's belly indicates the stone's intrinsic orientation. To build in the sacred mode, this sense must be taken into account. This second face systematically suggests this method of "looking" at stone. As for the eyes on the knees, one must think of the Jesuits' diminutive for the knees: the "little head".