Crowley?

C.N.

Hi,

"Everyone" seems to have a dislike for Crowley, but what is exactly the issue?
Why is he disliked?

Have a nice day,
C.N.
 

catlin

Hi, Merry Meet and Welcome,

I do not like Crowley because he turned wiccan laws right the way what suited him best, ie "do as you please and harm none" - he just left out the "harm none" which is an essential point when you use magic(k).

Besides, he was very fond of sacrificing animals during rituals - another point which gives me the creeps. I am an animal protector and I cannot accept harming a defenseless creature.

If you want to get a better picture of A. Crowley - the selfcalled "beast" - just take a look in one of the biographies which are available.
 

moon

Well, first of all, Crowley was not a Wiccan. And the whole "Do what thou wilt" thing, minus 'harm none' is NOT a rede. It means something else entirely. It doesn't mean 'do whatever the hell you want.' I'm not a thelemic or anything, but I'm gonna give this my best shot here...

It means finding out what it is your ultimate will/destiny to do. Fulfilling your potential to the highest degree. Discovering what it is you ultimately will to do.

It has nothing to do with the Rede. Seriously. And while I'm not a fan of Crowley either, I made an effort to educate myself about him a bit before making snap judgments.

Blessings,
Jess
 

EveAnna

Hi C.N. :) ,
If your really interested in reading more about Aleister Crowley, just type his name into one of the search engines, there are many websites about him out there - when I was interested in acquiring the Thoth deck I did some research on him. Most of it makes facinating reading and will surely tell you all you need to know about him. Hope this helps :)
 

Kimon

Hi,

I respect Crowley a lot, though that doesn't mean that I couldn't be critical about him.
Basicly I think we have to look to what he did before looking to how he behaved; after all he is dead now. And there is no one in this area that has had such an enourmous influence than him. There would be no Scientology and no Hippie Culture without him (by the way, both misunderstood him and he did not approve them, as well as he hated the Church of Satan, which put him on their flags).
Anyway I think to know him, you should not only read about him, but also read him directly; he left more than enough texts. I would recommend as an easier beginning the Liber Aleph, and also his autobiography, as well as the Law of Liberty.
As a basic law to judge Crowley I for myself learned that every simple statement about him is wrong, doesn't matter which one.

Greetings,
Kimon
 

Freddie

Before I read Mr. Crowley's books and books about him, I admit I did admire him. The cold hard facts are the cold hard facts and that the way it is always going to be. He believed and behaved as he did (and offered no excuses) and I can't find any reason to put rose colored glasses on to make him appear as a nicer person. He was evil (666) and liked it that way. In my opinion, he reminds me of alot of the "spoiled drug addict" rock stars (maybe that's why they like him...) that don't give a s**t about anyone but themselves. He was/is a tarot-kabalah (however you choose to spell it) genius, but that does not get him off the hook with everyone in the occult movement. He liked being hated and singled out, (he did wicked evil things to create that image) because it gave him the attention he always craved. It's just the way he was and either you like him or you don't.

Crowley did not start the "flower power/ hippie movement" (ever hear of Jack Keroac or James Dean?) and as far as I know he was dead ('47?) before the advent of the satanic church in San Francisco.



Freddie
 

deso

Crowley's famous line was "Do what thou wilt, shall be the whole of the law". Interpret that as you wish. The only autobiographies I've read on him were by Colin Wilson (I think) and Israel Regardie. As I have a very high opinion of Israel Regardie, I tended to believe his version more. Wilson's just seemed like sensation-mongering anyway. After reading Regardie's (something about an eye - I forget - I gave the book to a friend many years ago), my opinion of Crowley ended up as such: he leaned far too much on his intellectual prowess (which is nothing if it isn't tempered by the wisdom of the heart) and not enough on self-improvement and self-knowledge. Without ever having dealt with the serious issues caused by mean-spirited fundamental Christians in his youth, he forged full force ahead into areas that need psychological stability to expand consciousness in healthy measures. This was his greatest down-fall. He just couldn't (and wouldn't) deal with all his pain, insecurities, and fragile ego (which of course than explodes into ego-mania).
As for his deck, I own it, it's not one of my favourites, nor is it disliked. It just is.
 

Kimon

Quote:Freddie (20 Nov, 2001 21:46):
Before I read Mr. Crowley's books and books about him, I admit I did admire him. The cold hard facts are the cold hard facts and that the way it is always going to be. He believed and behaved as he did (and offered no excuses) and I can't find any reason to put rose colored glasses on to make him appear as a nicer person. He was evil (666) and liked it that way. In my opinion, he reminds me of alot of the "spoiled drug addict" rock stars (maybe that's why they like him...) that don't give a s**t about anyone but themselves. He was/is a tarot-kabalah (however you choose to spell it) genius, but that does not get him off the hook with everyone in the occult movement. He liked being hated and singled out, (he did wicked evil things to create that image) because it gave him the attention he always craved. It's just the way he was and either you like him or you don't.

Crowley did not start the "flower power/ hippie movement" (ever hear of Jack Keroac or James Dean?) and as far as I know he was dead ('47?) before the advent of the satanic church in San Francisco.



Freddie


Hello,

well, if you are so sure about the real Crowley there is nothing more to say...:)
Of course he was dead when Flower Power and Church of Satan started. That wasn?t the point, the question is where these movements came from. I know Keroac and also James Dean. Do you know what they have read? Crowley?s thoughts, misunderstood or not, were not just one of many to be used by important people of that time, but gave a stable basis to many philosophies that were created and lived then. "Do what thou wilt", "Every man and every women is a star" and "Love is the law" made their way through the whole of the 20th century.
I don?t think that it is a question of liking or not Crowley to see that he had a huge influence.

Greetings,
Kimon
 

Freddie

It's just my opinion and that's all, nothing more.


Freddie
 

Freddie

Well Kimon, I did some research and your right that Mr. Crowley did influence the 60's generation (and a few of the earlier 50's beatniks Jimmy Dean never read Crowley though, but did read "The Golden Bough"). Here in America the occult revolution didn't really start until maybe 1966 and then people (not just hippie youth) got into Crowley, A.E. Waite, Gardner, Sybil Leek, Hans Holzer, etc... The Beatles, Stones, Led Zepplin, and The Doors helped bring Crowley to the masses here. In fact, I learned about him through reading about Led Zepplin guitarist Jimmy page.

I guess he is just a subject that "new age-occult" people will always disagree on like Ouija, for example. Kind of keeps it interesting, eh.




Carry On,



Freddie