gregory
An example ? If we want tarot to be in the mainstream, we could use courtesy, is all.
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Ethics on Where to Read Cards
Seafra
direwolf336 said:... I certainly would not roll over like a good dog because of ignorance. Ignorance breeds fear and fear breeds insecure children of the night...And thats what we reduce our selfs to when we succumb to the comfort of others for their ignorance.
I'm sorry, but what or who are 'insecure children of the night'?
Sophie
Like I said, if someone came to disturb me while I was quietly reading tarot in a hotel lobby (as I have done many times before, on 4 different continents, without anyone ever objecting to it), I would not make a fuss, I would first inform staff that I was being disturbed by an objectionable fellow guest, and if the staff did nothing about said guest annoying me, I would leave. If the staff came to ask me to stop doing my quiet activity, I would not make a fuss either, I would say very little - I would simply check out of the hotel and leave. It's my choice as a customer not to patronise an establishment that gives more weight to moralisers and tarotphobics than to tolerance and mutual courtesy.Seafra said:So if you want to holler, go ahead. This is the odd animal that is the hotel business.
I do not choose to give my custom to places where ordinary quiet activities are frowned upon and where "live and let live" is not part of the business policy. That's my business, just as doing whatever you please in your hotel is your business.
And yes, it is tarotphobia. What else can you call it? How on earth can one compare quietly laying down cards to playing a loud musical instrument or making love in public? It's absurd.
Interesting that nobody has come back on me on the arms dealers doing business in the lobby. This is not a fantasy example, it is based on actual experience.
Seafra
Fudugazi said:And yes, it is tarotphobia.
No, it is fear of the unknown. It takes people out of their comfort zone and people don't like that.
The oldest synagogue in the US is down the road from the hotel and many Hasidic Jews stay with us for holy days. I've seen kids stare in horror at them. They are afraid. No phobia over Jews, fear of what is unknown.
I don't have difficulty reading today. I have difficulty seeing your point.
Seafra
Fudugazi said:Interesting that nobody has come back on me on the arms dealers doing business in the lobby. This is not a fantasy example, it is based on actual experience.
I don't have any experience in arms dealers on the job. I have experience with drug dealers, prostitutes, spouse batters, drunks, and people in fist fights though. I call the police.
Sophie
OK, I can accept that. But do you ask the Jews to leave or stay in their rooms, then, because they cause discomfort among some others?Seafra said:The oldest synagogue in the US is down the road from the hotel and many Hasidic Jews stay with us for holy days. I've seen kids stare in horror at them. They are afraid. No phobia over Jews, fear of what is unknown.
Apologies about the reading comment, it was uncalled for. But my point is simple. I am a customer. If a hotel doesn't like me reading cards in the lobby and ask me to stop, I don't holler, I just leave the hotel, it's very simple. I don't like hotels like that. Fortunately for me, it's never happened.
le fey
Seafra said:No, it is fear of the unknown. It takes people out of their comfort zone and people don't like that.
The oldest synagogue in the US is down the road from the hotel and many Hasidic Jews stay with us for holy days. I've seen kids stare in horror at them. They are afraid. No phobia over Jews, fear of what is unknown.
I agree that it is fear of the unknown... but that's a cureable problem - once something is known the fear fades if that is what it is. Hiding from the unknown only increases the fear because then most things are in the fearsome category.
In such a situation, do you ask the Hasidic Jew to stay out of the lobby to avoid upsetting children? Or to cut their hair to better fit in? Or is ... sometimes... discomfort, even in children, something to sympathise with but not protect from?
btw - my response would be the same as fudugazi (although I'm more likely to pre-emptively avoid the situation) - if a business does not welcome my presence while I am causing no harm, I will simply quietly leave.. obviously, I am not the customer they're catering to. No harm no foul, but like everyone else I like to feel welcome where I am spending money.
Seafra
Fudugazi said:OK, I can accept that. But do you ask the Jews to leave, then, because they cause discomfort among some others?
Of course not. Why would I ask a religious sect to leave because children are unaware of their existence? I cannot un-teach ignorance or stupidity when I work as a hotel manager. All I can do is keep the peace as much as possible.
ETA: I'm well aware of the laws regarding religious activities. Back on page 7 or so I posted about bible reading when someone asked if I would stop a guest from reading their bible if that poster was made uncomfortable by the bible being read.
That's how foolish this thread has gotten at times. And no, I would not. Rest of answer on page 7 (or so)
Sophie
In that case, I fail to see your point about people fearing tarot readers. I'm not deliberately being obtuse, I'm just trying to follow your reasoning: given what you write above, I don't see the difference between fear of the unknown when applied to the Chassidim, and fear of the unknown when applied to tarot readers. Yet you would allow the first and not the second.Seafra said:Of course not. Why would I ask a religious sect to leave because children are unaware of their existence? I cannot un-teach ignorance or stupidity when I work as a hotel manager. All I can do is keep the peace as much as possible.
I don't think it's foolish. I think it goes to the very heart of the question asked by the opening poster.
direwolf336
Fudugazi said:In that case, I fail to see your point about people fearing tarot readers. I'm not deliberately being obtuse, I'm just trying to follow your reasoning: given what you write above, I don't see the difference between fear of the unknown when applied to the Chassidim, and fear of the unknown when applied to tarot readers. Yet you would allow the first and not the second.
I don't think it's foolish. I think it goes to the very heart of the question asked by the opening poster.
Bravo...Bravo... I second that.....
