Hellenistic Astrology

Darth MI

Lot of Armies in Scorpio

What does Hellenistic astrology state about pursuing a career in the military? Does it warn nothing but trouble?

Here is the Sabian Symbol for Lot of Armies in Scorpio in my chart.

Your have selected: 21° Scorpio

Janduz interpretation, rewritten by Astrotheme

"The water of a cataract bounces from one rock to another before disappearing in the sand."

Impulsive, nervous, and unstable character. Reversal of fortune brings about a humble and ordinary life. If the natal chart indicates strong willpower, one is able to recover one's lost social status through hard work and sometimes, through a marriage.

Its totally true as far as the military goes in relation to my life. Does Hellenistic astrology give a similar warning?


What does Hellenistic astrology state about pursuing a career in the military? Does it warn nothing but trouble?

Here is the Sabian Symbol for Lot of Armies in Scorpio in my chart.

Your have selected: 21° Scorpio

Janduz interpretation, rewritten by Astrotheme

"The water of a cataract bounces from one rock to another before disappearing in the sand."

Impulsive, nervous, and unstable character. Reversal of fortune brings about a humble and ordinary life. If the natal chart indicates strong willpower, one is able to recover one's lost social status through hard work and sometimes, through a marriage.

Its totally true as far as the military goes in relation to my life. Does Hellenistic astrology give a similar warning?

A successful military career will depend on the chart. In your case your Ascendant ruler is Mars, and Mars is placed in the fourth house of home, real estate and family. Issues surrounding those will tend to be prominent in your life. That of course does not rule out a career in the Military but as the fourth opposes the tenth, it does suggest that whatever career you go for, you will find that issues of the fourth house will tend to be at least a distraction.

Given that both malefics lie in the fourth and one of them is your Ascendant ruler, some instability will be there.

Darth MI

Question Fixedness and Astrology

I will go into the military more a month later. I want to focus on other things ATM.

Walter PUllen puts me as 40% Fixed dominant.

In fact you probably saw an overwhelming fixed energy in my chart.

WHY? WHY? WHY? For being someone who's fixed, why do I give up so damn easily on endeavors (particularly involving physical activity as you seen in sports)? Even in supposed strengths I give up way to DAMN fast before I even get 25% and assuming I get past 25% I will give up quickly even if I reach 99.9%. complete.

Even in easy things that are hobbies I love so much such as gaming! The only hobby I ever got deep to and stuck so much damn the way to the point I will finish the Christian Astrology (which I am struggling with ATM) for damn sure is astrology!

Even in my military years I gave up easily on reading a small 40 page military pamphlet,etc

What does the Hellenistic interpretation say about giving up quickly? And even giving up when I already completed 99.9% and just a little effort I would finish say the last ten pages of a book or watching the last 5 episodes of a TV series,etc?

Astrology is the only subject I stuck with all the way too despite almost hating it and abandoning it for sure I find myself getting back and getting more addicted and falling in love with it deeper than ever. Not even in military had I had such deep devotion.

What does Hellenistic chart also say about astrology and its role in my life? Why didn't I get into it much earlier (stupid question but considering my parents used to have some astrology books I am surprised I was such a nonbeliever and called it nonsense refusing to touch a book for half over 10 years until very recently the last 2-3 years)?

I'd like an interpretation for Lot of Astrology in Leo. I don't remember the degrees but I'll tryo to look for the formula if you need it.


New Sitter

Ethereal has volunteered to help me go over some new material and at the same time I can hopefully answer some questions for her.

The chart has Libra rising, so the Ascendant Ruler is Venus. It is also a day chart with the Sun just past the MC in Cancer. This makes the Moon ruler of the Sect Light. The Sun is in the Confines of Jupiter and the Triplicity rulers are Venus which will be more influential in the first part of Life and Mars which will be more influential in the second. The Moon itself is the co-operating triplicity ruler and will have influence throughout life, supporting the other two.

Looking at these planets:

The Sun has no dignity in Cancer, yet it is in the confines of Jupiter, which is a sectmate and also the benefic of sect. There is no affliction from a malefic in terms of square or opposition. It is in a close trine with Mars, from the sixth house a wider trine from Saturn in the second house and a sextile from its ruler the Moon, in the twelfth house. Whilst all three are usually seen as easy or good aspects, they all come from what Holden describes as the 'bad places' None of these are particularly worrying but they are not as helpful as they might seem at first sight. Of the three, the trine from Mars is an overcoming trine from the right and Mars is the out of sect malefic. Mars does not signify harm, here but it does signify that things will not go as easily as the trine suggests. Better news is that the Sun does aspect the Ascendant and is in the second best place in the chart.

Jupiter the Confine Ruler of the Sect Light, is in the first degree of Virgo in the twelfth Place. Virgo is the Detriment of Jupiter, being opposite its sign of Pisces. So Jupiter has problems both by sign and place. It is also in a loose opposition to Mars, the out of sect malefic. So there is some affliction. As the benefic of sect, Jupiter is not well placed to be helpful and work for the good of the native. In the chart, Jupiter rules the sixth Place of Illness, travel (for the Hellenistic Astrologers all cadent or declining houses had some association with travel and alien or foreign places). I'll say more about Jupiter's rulerships in a later post but it's worth pointing out that the sixth house of illness does not have to always relate to the native's illness. It could, for example, relate to careers dealing with illness in some way, or the illness of others through a connection in the chart.

The Moon as Domicile Lord of the Sect Light also lies in Virgo and is in a closer, though by no means close opposition to Mars. As the twelfth is one of the 'bad places' because it is averse to the Ascendant, the Moon too will 'find it difficult' to signify assistance to the native's life.

Venus is both the Ascendant ruler and a Triplicity ruler of the Sect Light. It is placed in the ninth Place, which signifies travel, education and philosophy and the arts of Astrology and Divination. In many ways, the ninth will be the key area of life and I'll come back to that later. Venus does not have any dignity at its location but it does have a weak mutual reception with Mars. Venus lies in the Confines of Mars and Mars lies in the Exaltation and Triplicity of Venus. So far that's good news. The bad news is that Mars is the out of sect malefic and it's in a close overcoming square to Venus, which is mutually applying, given that Venus is Retrograde. The mutual reception is likely to offset some of this but I doubt it will prevent this aspect being a key one during periods of Ethereal's life. As well as the Ascendant, Venus also rules the eighth place of Taurus, This will bring associations with other people's money and resources and death. It is much more likely to be the former in any chart. Finally Venus is in an overcoming square to the twelfth place planets of Jupiter and Moon. This is not likely to be detrimental. Indeed as both are benefic in nature it is quite possible that these connections will work in favour.

Mars is in the sixth place of Pisces, which is also one of the bad places - the place of 'Bad Fortune'. There's no configuration to the Ascendant, but it does aspect the tenth place by trine. Mars therefore may have some influence on career. As well as the trine to the Sun, the square to Venus and oppositions to Moon and Jupiter already mentioned, Mars has a further trine to Saturn for the second place, which is ruled by Mars, along with the Descendant and Seventh Place of marriage and relationships.

The remaining two planets are:

Mercury, which in this chart is a diurnal planet and is therefore in Sect. Mercury is also in the tenth Place and therefore aspects the Ascendant. Like the Sun, Mercury has no direct afflictions. Mercury's rulerships are the ninth and twelfth places

Saturn is also a diurnal planet and therefore in Sect in this chart. As the malefic of Sect it is not at it's worst in this chart and indeed could be a neutral influence, though in this chart it is Retrograde though in its own Confines. It has loose sextiles to Jupiter and Moon. Saturn rules the fourth and fifth places in the chart.


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hmm..looks pretty dismal :( as you know I am not familiar at all with astrology, but take a great interest in it. I am going to mention a few things; forgive me if I am reading this wrong.

and, correct me. ;) if I am. I understand that things wont be easy, not as the planets are set up here. question: Jupiter has problems in sign and place. in travel, illness. careers dealing with illness in someway. illness of others interested in seeing more info on this.

moon: no help either???

venus: this really piqued my interest. travel, education, philosophy, arts of divination.
being a key area of my life. I really am VERY interest in more on this! good and bad news on this. how it will be a key in my life.

mars: bad influence..place of bad fortune. influence on career, marriage and relationships.
please let me know , how and in what way. totally detrimental? from here on towards the future? as I have had bad luck with all in the past.

mercury: nothing. whats up with that? how could mercury influence ones life ...in a good way? if it was better placed in my chart would it help in those ways?

Saturn: neutral. not at its worst. though retrograde. whats up with the retrograde? mostly , not going to help me in any way?

thanks minderwiz! looks pretty negative to me. an uphill battle all the way from here on in. not much going to change in the way of luck in any areas of my life at all. not from what I think I have read here. UG.however, it looks like I will receive my inheritances. yes? please enlighten me more , If you could on all of this. thanks for taking the time to do this!


hmm..looks pretty dismal :( as you know I am not familiar at all with astrology, but take a great interest in it. I am going to mention a few things; forgive me if I am reading this wrong.

I wouldn't use the word 'dismal' but I would say that you have challenges. Life isn't always going to be easy. Many of us do have such charts though. We are not all born with charts that suggest major success and constant happiness. I have Saturn, the Out of Sect Malefic, sat on my Ascendant, with a partile opposition to the Moon and co-present with Mars. Saturn squares my Venus and Mercury. by comparison, that's quite a bit worse than your chart :(

Modern Astrology would suggest that all challenges can be met and overcome, Hellenistic Astrologers were perhaps less optimistic but they did think that how you met the challenges was important. I think James T Kirk said something to that effect in the Wrath of Khan. :)

On Jupiter, all the things I said and you quote are examples of possibilities. Not all will necessarily occur but it's quite possible that one of them may occur, though not necessarily as a constant in your life. This is an area that you asked for more information on originally, so I'll take it up in a future post.

I'll be looking at Venus in my next post together with the main two lots and Mars.

Mercury is in your tenth and it's likely to have some effects on your career and your social activity. Again career was something that you asked about and I'll look at that when I look at Jupiter and other rulers of the areas of your life.

Saturn is in your second house which deals with income financial and moveable resources. I think the matter of inheritance is something you are concerned about, so again that could well be an area we look at.

Again you need to be careful to distinguish 'challenging' from 'negative. Some of us have more difficulties to deal with than others, often those difficulties help us become better people. Simply shrugging your shoulders and saying 'that's it then' is neither the right answer for the modern Astrologer/Counsellor, nor for those Hellenistic Astrologers who felt it was how we dealt with what fortune threw at us that proclaimed whether we had lived a good life or not.


Minderwiz,. I think you brought forth alot of sense in saying pretty much its how we deal with lifes adversities that's important. and, yes it certainly does makes us better people. it rounds one out to be able to understand and have compassion for those who are going through difficult times of their own. *having walked in those shoes, * so to speak, kind of thing. true, life isn't easy. and, some of us do have it a bit harder than others. its all in how you cope with it. very true. looking forward to seeing what you have coming up. as always, and I cannot say it enough, a big thank-you for taking the time to do this for me. its been of a great help!


The Triplicity Lords, Domicile Lord of the Hour Marker and the Lots

In this post I'll elaborate a little of the Domicile Lord of the Hour Marker - the Ruler of the Ascendant, in modern terms. I'll also say something about the Lots of Fortune and Spirit. I'm also going to give some examples from my own chart because that might help you overcome some of the more technical and therefore new astrological statements.

First I'd just like to say something of the Triplicity Lords of the Sect Light. It this case, those are Venus and Mars, the day and night rulers of the Water Triplicity and the Moon, which is the co-operating or supporting ruler. Two of these are benefic in nature, Venus and the Moon, though both are out of sect, as it is a day chart. (the Sun is in the top half). The other one, Mars is also out of sect but is a malefic and in this chart the planet likely to provide most difficulties.

Being a Day Chart, Venus has influence over the first part of life. Venus is well placed in the ninth and is configured by trine to the Ascendant. A point I will come back on when I look at her role as Ascendant Ruler. Being out of sect, Venus will not be the best planet in the chart, that role falls to Jupiter. However, Venus will be at worst neutral and most likely positive in terms of influence. There is no clear definition of what the first part of life actually is. There does not appear to be a clear dividing line at say, age 35 or 30. In my own case, it seems to me that the division came around the age of 50, when Mercury gave way to Saturn. So I want to stress one thing here. Like you I had the better Triplcity Ruler, Mercury, in the first part of my life. In modern terms it is in conjunction with my tenth house ruler, Venus and Mercury certainly influenced my career in teaching. Like you the second part of my life is influenced by the Out of Sect Malefic, in my case Saturn and it's squares to Mercury and Venus reflect real issues in my career and afterwards. However those issues tended to fade into the background apart from an issue around the transition. So don't think that Mars influence has to be constantly a high level attack on your life. But it does put something of an obstacle there that you will have to negotiate at various stages.

One point that is mentioned is the placement of the Triplicity rulers. It they are well placed they tend to indicate stability during life. Neutral placements suggest a life that is middling. Poor placements suggests ups and downs or a life that is not very stable. My three Triplicity rulers are in angular Places and Fixed signs. So that means that life is going to be reasonably stable, though the shift to Saturn in the second part is going to introduce a more challenging environment. Your Triplicity rulers are spread more than mine. You have one in a good place and two in idle places. Also from another perspective, all your placements are in cadent signs ('Declines' in Hellenistic Astrology). So I think your life is more likely to exhibit change than mine. I don't want to over emphasise that. Your placements are in mutable or 'double bodied signs'. So it's possible that you see more of a two fold phase to your life.

Venus is your Ascendant Ruler and this suggests the 'House' in which it is placed will be significant in your life. That doesn't mean that it will dominate all other activities or that it will be constant in effect. It does mean that it will have some significance. Outsiders will tend to identify you with that particular area of life,.

In your case, as we have seen Venus lies in the ninth house or place. Although this is a cadent or decline house it is a 'Good Decline' indeed it is the best Decline house in the chart. My Ascendant Ruler but contrast is the Sun, which lies in the Third House, which is also a Decline but not as good ast the ninth. It is however better than the sixth or the twelfth, the other two Decline Places.

Like the third, the Ninth is associated with a range of topics, even in Hellenistic Times. The main ones are:

Travel and being away from home, including foreign lands and foreigners. Later medieval Astrology qualified this by insisting that the travel involved passing over water or long distances, and these meanings are still held today. For the Hellenistic Astrologer all Decline Houses had some ling to travel or foreigners. The ninth offers the better experience.

Religion, religious observance, philosophy, piety, philosophy, priests/priestesses. Again in later periods, the ninth was reserved for prevailing accepted religion - such as Christianity in Western Europe or the US - however that distinction was not made in Hellenistic times. So it would, by modern standards also include religions such as Wicca,

Divination By various methods. Astrology was included here, but so would any form of divination practiced at the time. That would now include Tarot, scrying, I Ching, and a host of others. It also includes anything that would be considered occult.

Kings, sovereigns and authorities This would seem odd by modern standards, as we would associate political authority with the tenth place. The rationale appears to be that the ninth was considered the Place of God and Kings were associated with the Divine. We still have some of the remnants of this placement in the modern Astrology because we place Law, judges and courts in this house. However, to use a modern UK example the courts are still the Queen's Courts and we still have the Royal Courts of Justice. The King or political authority was seen as being the fount of law. And that holds even in a divided system like the US Constitution. The Courts may not be the President's Courts but they are State or US Courts and the Constitution vests part of Political Authority (in it's widest sense) in the court system.

So there's a wide range of possible manifestations that could flow from this. As a member of the Aeclectic Forum, I know you must have some interest in the Divination side of the ninth. However you could also manifest by having a career as a civil servant or related to the law, even if that is only working for a law firm. The links to Philosophy have been expanded to include education. Again in modern times that is taken as higher education but from a Hellenistic point of view, it's education in general, so activities relating to education, would hold and those include working in some capacity in an educational institution or doing voluntary work which is 'educational'

It's also quite possible that several of these might manifest over your lifetime, either concurrently or at different times. The important thing is that this area is in someway identified with you. It doesn't have to be early on in life either.

The third has similar associations but not quite as comprehensive. So for me, I have a link to the education side. I used to teach political philosophy and now in retirement I practice Astrology as a hobby.

Lastly I'll turn to the two key Lots that were used. In modern Astrology they are referred to as the Part of Fortune (the only one still in regular use) and the Part of Spirit. Websites and books will refer to them as 'Arabic' but they existed well before the Arabic period of Astrology. They are a Hellenistic Invention and I'm using the English translation of the Greek term here. 'Lots' as in the casting of Lots - something of a gamble or more properly, something that has an element of 'fate' to it. We still use the term in auction 'lots' or the board game 'Lotto' and as the original term related to pieces (as in chess or draughts pieces) or parcels the word still has some indicative meaning in the term building Lot or Lot of Land or even Parking Lot.

The Lot of Fortune is calculated using the Sun and Moon. It takes the distance from the Light of Sect to the Light out of Sect and casts that distance from the Ascendant. There are therefore two versions, depending on whether a person was born during the day or during the night. One explanation I've heard is that it symbolically takes the light and brings it into a place where it has not existed before - a symbolic 'Let there be light'

In your case you were born during the day and therefore the light is carried from Sun to Moon (the light out of sect). The calculation thus becomes ASC+Moon-Sun and in your case we end up with a position of 12 degrees 35 Sagittarius. This Lot is sometimes called the Lot of the Moon, and it is supposed to show how well our health holds up and therefore how well life goes for us. It shows what befalls us from outside. That which we can't control. If you life, that which fate bestows on us at the start of our lives.

Your Lot is ruled by Jupiter, the benefic of Sect. This is a very good start. It's also configured to the Ascendant by sextile which is also good. However Jupiter is in the twelfth, which is not configured to the Ascendant. In short it is difficult for you to see the good or bad things in life coming towards you. This makes it more difficult to take action to get those good things or to avoid the bad things. Things will not come as total surprises but they might seem to come with little advanced warning and catch you under prepared.. That won't be every time but it will probably happen more often than not. If the things are good, you still end up happy. If they are bad, then you will wish you had seen it coming and taken action. There is a way of avoiding this. Venus your Ascendant ruler is in the ninth and is thus configured to the Lot. It is also configured to Jupiter by square. So there are links between the Lot, the Lot Ruler (which also squares the Lot) and the Ascendant Ruler but none of these links are easy aspects. You almost have to train yourself to keep a watch out and be prepared. It's not a natural reaction.

The Lot of Spirit is the inverse of the Lot of Fortune. In your case it is ASC+Sun-Moon. It is the Lot of the Sun and it gives an indication of how good you are in taking action to deal with what fate deals you. It shows your ability to influence what goes on around you. This is never total, of course and that is show by the element of chance or fate in all Lots. Again in your case the Lot of Spirit lies at 1 degree43 Virgo in the twelfth House. That is not a good placement in itself, especially as it is in opposition to Mars. It's ruler Mercury is configured to the AScendant, so you do have a capacity to plan and act, once you've seen what is happening. Mercury sextiles the Lot of Spirit and it also sextiles the ruler of Fortune. Again this supports the view that once you are aware you are quite good at reacting and taking action. Sometimes you might see your life as 'firefighting', dealing with outbreaks of bad fortune but you don't give up. You do react and you react well. This might be a strain on you at the time but your life is not going to be continuous fire fighting.


thanks for breaking this down for me, minderwiz. it was very helpful to me. the travel, yes. it seems to have played a large part In my life. that makes sense. religion , also. Christianity in the first half, have taken a liking to areas such as tarot and the other areas you have mentioned, later on. that makes sense. the law I don't know, really. education, maybe later on at sometime. obstacles I have had to negotiate at times, very much so. it comes in cycles. and, I agree, not a firefighter in life ALL the time. good to see that its not going to be ongoing all the time. and yes, I seem to be able to handle troubles when they come into my life. its draining , especially when it occurs. but, not impossible. thanks so much! and , the info about how your chart is compared to mine. it just looks like I will have to continue to cope; which I have been able to do. thank you SO much for taking the time to do all of this for me! its greatly appreciated! I read this twice, so even though I am no astrology wiz, I can digest what you have written. again, thank you!


Topical Issues - Ethereal

My next stage is to look at particular topics. I think from our exchange of PMs, etc the following areas are what you would like to know more about.

Romance, marriage, partnerships all for the future.

Health issues and your general health for the next few years.

Career and Income from various sources, including the family context.

I'll take each of those in turn and look at what's going on. For some such as a particular romance, I will need the other persons' details. Of course it would be best just to PM those to me.

It may also be that specific questions may need to go to the Horary thread or I'll answer by PM but I can look at the general issues here.

I'll start with the general consideration of Marriage and Partnerships in the next post and then work through those topics.