Hellenistic Astrology


Minderwiz, I bet you're sorrry I got a few free hours today but if you can just glance at my exercise with profections and releasing, I'll be vary grateful! :)

OK, so I haven't had any time lately to practise but I thought it would be good to refresh my memory now. I did release fro Libra, Pars Fortunae. In the middle of November there is a Loose of Bond to Pisces L3/4. I take it this will activate natal and transiting Jupiter, correct?

I checked this with Delphic Oracle. If you are talking about the Level 3 (and therefore 4) change on 16 November this is not a Loosing of the Bond (according to DO).

It is a progression from the last Level 3 period of Aquarius, which began in early September. There was a loosing of the bond at Level 4 when the Level 4 would have returned to Aquarius in the middle of October (16th) and instead switched to Leo. That level 4 continued to Aries before the 'natural' switch to Pisces on 16 November.

Now I had to recheck my notes and material to work this out, as DO shows the October change as Level 3/4 but there is clearly no change in the Level 3 sequence thereafter. There does seem to be a lack of clarity as to whether Leo just sees out the remainder of Aquarius' Level 3 or the change is confined entirely to Level 4. Chris Brennan's explanation implies the latter but it doesn't explicitly say so.

That being said Pisces does become active at Level 3 from the 16th of November through to 16th December. Brennan says in a footnote that he finds that activates any planets placed in the sign (Pisces in this case) or configured to it by whole sign. I read that to included both natal and transiting planets. In the same footnote he says that Schmidt sees the main empahsis being through the ruler of that sign (Jupiter) and urges students to test out both possibilities to see which works best. DO is mainly based on Schmidt's approach, as it was virtually the only one at the time Curtis Manwaring developed the program.

In your chart there are no (traditional) planets in Pisces but the Sun in Scorpio is configured by Trine. Venus in Virgo is configured by Opposition and Mars and the Moon in Cancer are configured by Trine. So all of those would need to be considered on the Brennan approach in terms of your natal placements and of course Jupiter on the Schmidt approach.

Ronia said:
Natal Jupiter, if I remember correctly from your analyses, is not in his best shape, right? But he is in the 4th, whole houses, ruled by Mars in the 7th. Since I'm in the middle of some tough conversations with my ex, I hoped this could bode well re: family, relationships, etc? Pisces is also my 3rd house, so I hoped this would also ease communications, especially with relatives or similar, am I on the right pathy here?

Jupiter is Angular and he is in his own Trigon (though it isn't a night chart) He is a diurnal planet in a diurnal chart and he happens to be in a diurnal sign, though below the horizon. So all of that is good.

He is configured to the Ascendant and to the Ascendant ruler (also good) and to Fortune (though by Opposition, which is still better than not being configured at all). He is not configured to the Lots' ruler (bad) and he is ruled by Mars which is in its Depression (not good), though he has reception by Square (luckily it is Jupiter that is in the 'overcoming' position, so this helps). He is in an opposition to Mercury which rules the sixth and he is Retrograde.

So yes he isn't in the best condition but his condition could be a lot worse than it is.

Ronia said:
More so, at the end of December this year I'm finally leaving the Aquarius L2. I'll still be in Capricorn L1 but the L2 will switch to Pisces, and again: activating Jupiter, yes?

Yes but again note that Brennan sees more emphasis coming from those planets in or configured to the sign. Schmidt would see most emphasis coming from Jupiter as the ruler.

If Brennan is right, then transiting Jupiter in Leo is not configured to Pisces and so will have a weak effect. Obviously Schmidt would disagree. Transiting Jupiter is also in an applying square to transiting Saturn in Scorpio (which is configured to Pisces) so Jupiter might sneak in there LOL. Again it's Jupiter that is in the overcoming position

Ronia said:
At the time Jupiter will continue transiting my whole house 8th, it's natal 7th still but... He will turn retrograde and thus staying in Leo for more. Leo has my natal Saturn there but in the beginning of the sign. Should I consider him activated? Saturn rules my Ascendant and I'm still in L1, so probably should matter.

Remember that the Level 1 and Level 2 Periods are more background influences that the level 3 (approx monthly) and Level 4 (several days) which are more noticeable on a day to day basis. The Pisces level 3 beginning on 31 December will expire on 30 January. So the Jupiter effect will diminish, till another Sagittarius or Pisces Level 3.

Ronia said:
At the time Mars (if taken into account through rulership of Aries) will be transiting Pisces, Jupiter's rulership, trining himself (7th), my Sun (11th), and finally my Moon (7th).

Again, my main question is: will the switch to Pisces L3/4 first and then Pisces L2 ease the personal sphere in general?

Mars will certainly be active from the time that it enters Pisces, on the 12th January, So he will remain active at Level 3 for around 18 days. As the next Level 3 Period is Aries, you will have an active Jupiter and a Mars that is still active at some level (certainly level 2 and depending on the influence of the sign ruler, at level 3 as well)

Look for the role that Mars plays in your chart (and life). In a Hellenistic Chart Mars is in your seventh Place and in Depression. He is angular but not a good influence, being the out of sect malefic and not in good condition in terms of sign placement. It may well be that Mars here can be a source of trouble in your relationships. So life might well be easier if Mars is not very active LOL.

That's something I really need to revisit as I have more material now and I'm a little more sure of what I'm doing with the Hellenistic approach.

I'll deal with Profections later.


looks like my hopes were wrong. I don't know why and how but I was left with the impression that in the past the Pisces periods had been quite pleasant. I'll go back and dig out our conversations from the past. That's why I thought a Pisces period would ease the pressure. And L2 would last longer, no? I can't open the Aphesis now on this device but I thought L2 was going to be longer and with Aquarius it did feel strong, it brought accomplishments on material level for sure.

Thank you for the reminder about different authors. Again, I'll refresh my memory re-reading the previous posts you did here re: releasing but I believe we were taking into account the ruler of the sign. I may very well be wrong but this is what my impression was.

I am not particularly fond of Jupiter transiting Leo but, on the other hand, I can't say my 7th house flourished during his Cancer transit. This was one of the most unimportant transits through the 7th I remember, really. Overall, Jupiter, aside from his return, is quite quiet this year. LOL

Still hoping the 4th will ease though. And the 7th as well. :(


The L2 Pisces period lasts till 26 December next year, or 12 thirty day months. so you have nearly a year of it. However it won't all be as strong as those times when you have a Pisces (or Sagittarius) Level 3 or Level 4 as well.

I'd certainly be interested in those early conversations, I'm not sure how to weight Brennan against Schmidt at this stage other than by looking at someone in detail and see which seems to be the more likely emphasis. I originally took the view that it was the Domicile ruler who should get the main emphasis (and to me that still sounds the more likely) So I'd like to check it against Brennan's observations.

If there are problems this time round, I'd think it was more to do with Jupiter transiting the eighth (and thus being out of contact with both the Ascendant and the third Place), the transit of Pisces by Mars (and it's continued activation in Aries) and to a lesser extent the Jupiter/Saturn square. I've not really looked for any other features, as those were the planets and periods that you mentioned.

The trines from Transiting Mars to natal Mars and to the Moon, will activate those planets, but in Pisces, it's a trine not a square. But don't forget these are coming in Aries, when Mars is still active plus the transit by conjunction of natal Jupiter and the square of transiting Mars to your natal Ascendant.

So there may be issues during the Pisces transit by Mars, but I don't think they are likely to be serious. The Aries transit is likely to be the more troublesome in theory - though I repeat, I haven't checked for other activity. I'm simply making a general comment on Mars transiting Pisces compared to Mars transiting Aries.

Jupiter is the benefic of sect, so if Schmidt is right there should be a general improvement in the background context of your life and the Pisces and Sagittarius periods should have a tendency to be better. all other things being equal. But remember you will have a meeting of Benefic of Sect v Out of Sect Malefic, when Mars enters Pisces, so even though Jupiter is stronger natally, Mars could still give some issues, especially when it moves into Aries.


Hi Minderwiz, I had some time today to revisit the beginning of the thread and to take out some of your previous analyses on releasing. This is where you began: http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=3474023&postcount=146 In my opinion, you clearly worked with the ruler of the sign active at the moment (more than one obviously if we take into consideration all the Time Lords - L1,2, 3 and 4 sign rulers). Most important were supposed to be the current transits of the sign ruler and/or any aspects to natal planets, possibly in the natal house ruled by the sign in force.

Having re-read all this, I am inclined to even put aside Mars through his rulership of Aries in the releasing (not in the profections though) as it seems Jupiter would be indeed the focus. In which case I will again end up with Jupiter transiting Leo, trining natal Jupiter in the 4th, natal Mercury in the 10th and the Lot of Fortune in the 10th should be the main player. I'm not exactly sure what to make of these but they are positive aspects and Venusian and Jupiterian by nature. Affected houses are 4/10, so why not expecting an ease in the relationship/family sector? Eh, I even married during a Saggittarius period, ruled by Jupiter and Mars was activated. LOL The marriage may not have proven my most successful step b ut it did produce something very beuatiful and after all, I got what I wanted. Ultimately, I can't say it's been for worse by any means. On the contrary. I'm saying this because it's again Jupiter period and being the 3rd house period should be even better, in my humble opinion. May be, indeed, I will finally manage to silence my ex and have some peace.

At the same time Saturn will begin its transit through Saggittarius. Coincidence or not but it's interesting. Saturn rules my Ascendant and eneters a Jupiter sign while Jupiter becomes L2/3 Lord and transits Leo which containg natal Saturn. What usually happens with Saturn ingress is that the matters of the sign/house come to the forefront for me. I'm starting to see a pattern related more to legal dealings in this whole picture than to simple conversations and negotiations... Hopefully, it ends well for me.

P.S. By the way, as I went back to the beginning of the thread, it seems you weren't sure about Mars being negative then (I believe about page 10 of this thread we started discussing Mars). In fact, we agreed that the trine Mars/Sun is a well working tool, you said Mars was "crashing into the Sun's astrological rays" which may be the reason why I didn't feel his transits strongly - note that the issue was that I didn't feel them not that he did much damage. The only transits of Mars I usually feel are the ones to the Ascendant and at the time of this releasing, this aspect will be past.

We commented profections here: http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=3473358&postcount=141 You pointed out that in terms of relationships (and I don't take this as marriage only), Gemini and Cancer, and planets ruling/placed there will always have significance. However, you were talking about Lots of marriage and included Gemini (and I'd also include Saggittarius and Jupiter again) but as I look at family/relations now, I'd focus on your words about the 7th - it means Mars (who also happens to be the year lord in profections and indeed through the 4th!) and the Moon, and their transits should be considered.

That's what I found. What do you think?


:) :) :)

But please allow for my learning process between then and now. At that time I was just beginning my study of Hellenistic Astrology and trying to find my way.

That was before I found Chris Brennan's note which I mentioned in this particular bout. My opinion still leans towards the Schmidt approach of using the sign ruler. But as I've not tested the Brennan view, I really do need to point it out. As I think I said, once you start to allow for planets that are configured to the sign, then It's going to come near to most of them active, most of the time, as you would see from your Pisces period, as Mars, Moon, Venus and Sun are all configured natally, and for your Aries period Jupiter, Mars, Moon, Mercury and Saturn are configured natally. And that is not counting transits.

Nevertheless, I can't discount it at the moment, so you can report back on which seems to have the main effect. :) :) L1 and L2 give the general flavour of the period, and with Jupiter ruling that should be advantageous. L3/L4 are more the day to day or month to month focus and to the extent that they're ruled by malefics or weak planets that will mean that even in a generally good period you will still have bad days or bad months. The best times should come when three of the four periods are ruled by active benefics.

On Mars, yes I did tend to down play it, but the further into the course I get, them more I realise that the malefics and benefics are very important. So I your case with a day chart, Jupiter is the planet that should bring the good things, subject to its condition in your chart and Mars should be more associates with the not so good things. Mars lies in your seventh place and that should mean that relationships and marriage are the area where things don't go as well as you would hope and home and family are areas that should be the better things. Again remember that is for your life as a whole and not every single day of it. So you might have bad times for family and friends when the fourth is afflicted by the current time lord or Mars is particularly active (given that it squares the fourth and rules it and happens to be in its Depression. But given that Jupiter is in the stronger position, Mars will be overcome by Jupiter.

OK so you married in a Jupiter period and the marriage brought you your son. It should not have been a disaster with Jupiter in overall 'command' but Mars is in your seventh Place and that has caused trouble, as you indicate in your post, your ex is still causing problems. Overall, as you said, it hasn't been for the worse, because Jupiter is stronger than Mars by placement. But that doesn't mean that there hasn't been negative issue that have been quite strong.

By sign, Mars and your Sun are trine. So whilst Mars is 'malefic' this is not a very negative relationship Yes by degree they are only two degrees off a square, but the aspect is not applying, and checking back with the texts for the course, the 'hurling of rays' seems to apply when the aspect is applying, not separating, as in your case. I'll double check that because I've not had time to keep up with the material recently.

Darth MI

READING for another person

I request a reading for another person if you have time. Also for privacy purposes can a mod alter some posts? Respond here and I will PM.


I'm afraid I don't do readings for third parties. Firstly they are presumably not a member and secondly I can't be sure that they have given their permission for such a reading.


Only on page 7 But

Hi Minderwiz,

I am only as far as page 7 but find this to be much more in-depth that the modern approach. Hellenistic methods give a why to Astrology that modern seems to lack. I was happy to see that there is still some activity at the end of the thread. Are you still taking sitters?

Best regards,


Hi Minderwiz,

I am only as far as page 7 but find this to be much more in-depth that the modern approach. Hellenistic methods give a why to Astrology that modern seems to lack. I was happy to see that there is still some activity at the end of the thread. Are you still taking sitters?

Best regards,


Congratulations on your first post. I do have some horary readings to do and I'm running behind on those. But I will certainly consider your request when I've completed those.

You will find that my understanding of some of the Hellenistic material changes and develops as you work your way through. That's because I used it as something of a learning exercise for myself. I'm still really at that stage so there's no guarantees of getting a 'perfect' reading.

One thing you might do as you work through is ask questions. Those will help you and also build up your posts on the site :)


Thanks for the response

Hi Minderwiz,

I understand completely about the learning curve and even by page 9 (I am slowly reading along) I have noticed a change in your grasp of the subject. Sometimes I need to back up and reread but some of the material is beginning to stick. I am a rather new student to Astrology in general and very new to Hellenistic.

I will forewarn you that my chart has a way of throwing good astrologers for a loop. For some reason it is difficult for them to stay on track and tell it like it is. Look at it as a challenge. Your systematic approach may be the best thing to overcome this sitting, if you choose to accept. I will be much obliged if you do and will be patiently waiting for instruction.

Weather you can get to it or not I want you to know that this thread is a fantastic learning tool and I appreciate your work on it.

Best regards,