Henry VIII Knights Templar poser


Henry V111 Knights Templar poser

hi guys

Background of question:
A friend of my dads who is rather more into freemasonary is in a particular section of it that has to do with the Knights Templar.
Whilst chatting away my dad mentioned that I am very 'into' tarot (lol) and then the guy asked this question:
During Henry111's reign two cards disappeared from the tarot deck ... the dragon and the knight ... why was this?

Well, it stumped me, lol, but here's hoping you guys can shed some light


And Happy Christmas or whatever you may wish to celebrate :)


I would ask him precisely why he thinks that two cards were lost during that reign...

Do not ever let relative ignorance about Masonic ritual stump you from historical evidence :)

Ross G Caldwell

Hi Allibee -

"During Henry111's reign two cards disappeared from the tarot deck ... the dragon and the knight ... why was this?"

Interesting question... first, do you mean Henry V111 (8) of England (as in the subject line), or Henry 111 of England or France?

Henry III of England (1207-1272) is too early, by most estimations, for the tarot.

Henry III (King 1551-1589) was the last King of the Valois-Orléans dynasty - the same as Charles VI and Louis XII. There is a lot of potential relation to tarot there.

If Henry VIII Tudor, King of England (1491-1547) - I think this is who it must be. But I personally don't recall any tarots in England dating to his reign, let alone any change in the pack.

So the question must be a riddle. What disappeared in England under Henry VIII? The Roman Catholic Church is one - perhaps the dragon?

For the Knight, I think he is still in the tarot pack... perhaps your questioner is thinking of the normal card-pack, with only three face cards (Jack, Queen and King)?

The Visconti snake, the Biscione, a giant serpent shown swallowing a man, is sometimes called a dragon... Many early decks show it, although it dropped out of use in the course of the 15th century. Perhaps part of the riddle is some loss of Visconti connection to the English royal house?

One must consider the source of the question - perhaps a Templar (the order as it now exists). As such, he might be referring to the Knight as a Knight Templar; the order began to be dismantled in 1308; not under any of the Kings in our list. But if he is referring to lore that the normal pack was descended from the tarot pack by subtraction, then it is a question of why the Knight was taken out.



Wow, thanks for the replies

Yes, he was specifically referring to Henry 8th ... Off with her head Henry, lol, and sorry ... my mistake, missed the 'V' in the actual post

Very interesting Ross, thanks

I hope to be able to get the gentlemans contact info over the Xmas/New Year break, and hopefully can give him your info and see what he comes back with

Thanking you both again