Justice/Strength or Strength/Justice

[Kenny]

I'm reading about tarot at the moment and have come across this point. I don't want to know what is the 'right' or 'wrong' way but what way do others think is the way that most makes sense to them and why?

If there are other areas where I could read (books or online) references would be great thanks.

 

[Fulgour]

8 Justice and 11 Strength

One of the most exciting (and rewarding) moments for me
was when I learned that 12 of the cards relate directly to
12 of the letters ~ the Signs of the Zodiac were revealed!

That left 7 letters for the 7 traditional Planets
and 3 for the Ancient elemental designations.

The letters, howsoever you wish to assign them, are:

5 "He" Aries
6 "Waw" Taurus
7 "Zayin" Gemini
8 "Heth" Cancer
9 "Teth" Leo
10 "Yod" Virgo

12 "Lamed" Libra

14 "Nun" Scorpio
15 "Samek" Sagittarius
16 "Ayin" Capricorn

18 "Tzade" Aquarius
19 "Qoph" Pisces

*

Some helpful info here:
http://www.inner.org/hebleter/letterof.htm

And the most liberating feature of this awareness is
that Tarot goes deeper and beyond any of this...

It's origins are older than the kaballah, going back to
the original Phoenician, on which Hebrew was based.

 

[SunChariot]

I am waiting to hear the answer to this one because starting in June will be my Strength/Justice of Justice/Strength Tarot year. I mean how do you know which Tarot year it is: Strength of Justice.

Very good question, I am very curious too.

Sorry Fulgour, your answer went right over my head? Except that I presume that you were saying that 8 is Justice and 11 is Strength, but I couldn't figure out why or how that correlated to the horoscopes.

Bar

 

[Fulgour]

Alain Bocher says something to the effect that
Tarot hides things in plain sight, so that those
who wish to find them can easily do so looking.

 

[jmd]

As very early decks were not numbered, there can be arguments for a variety of numbering of any and all Atouts.

However, early on a standardisation occurs that sees the cardinal virtues presented not only numbered in the order presented by Cicero and Aquinas, but also, with Justice bearing 'VIII', a link to an earlier Classical Greek view that the number eight is connected to Justice.

By this numbering, Justice as VIII bears within itself a long tradition from which much can be gained.

In contrast, the numbering of Justice as eleven stems from a specific manner in which the Golden Dawn allocates astrological overlays, finding in Justice, because of the holding of the scales, a similarity with Libra. As this sign, in astrology, occurs before Leo, and the Golden dawn relates to Strength, because of the usage of a subjugated but still lionine depiction on its image.

Obviously many have found merit in both numbering.

Here, what I am trying to present is my own answer to "what way do others think is the way that most makes sense to them and why" - in my case, then, if numbering is going to be used, eight is more closely connected to Justice!

 

[SunChariot]

As very early decks were not numbered, there can be arguments for a variety of numbering of any and all Atouts.

However, early on a standardisation occurs that sees the cardinal virtues presented not only numbered in the order presented by Cicero and Aquinas, but also, with Justice bearing 'VIII', a link to an earlier Classical Greek view that the number eight is connected to Justice.

By this numbering, Justice as VIII bears within itself a long tradition from which much can be gained.

In contrast, the numbering of Justice as eleven stems from a specific manner in which the Golden Dawn allocates astrological overlays, finding in Justice, because of the holding of the scales, a similarity with Libra. As this sign, in astrology, occurs before Leo, and the Golden dawn relates to Strength, because of the usage of a subjugated but still lionine depiction on its image.

Obviously many have found merit in both numbering.

Here, what I am trying to present is my own answer to "what way do others think is the way that most makes sense to them and why" - in my case, then, if numbering is going to be used, eight is more closely connected to Justice!

Ok I can deal with that, to me that makes card 8 Justice and next year my Justice year. I can deal with that. After all I have gone through in my Chariot year, hey I could sure use some Justice sometime soon. LOL

Bar