Karma/what goes around comes around..

[CelestialHorse]

Not sure if this is the right part of the forum to post(or put it in just regular chat), but karma is sorta part of spirituality isn't it? Anyway, I do wonder, I always wonder, is karma real? I know they say negative thoughts bring negative things, positive thoughts bring positive things, I kinda am understanding that, but just having trouble right now. (Inner critic/ego yay but reading a self esteem book right now).

How about actions? Not the obvious, criminal gets arrested kind of thing but if a "friend" hurts you badly, will they get that experience that they brought onto you?

I am reading old posts I made about ex friends, life in general. Yeah I hate myself for the rants I made and everything, so I am mentally scolding my inner child, but I realized, I had some REALLY,REALLY horrible friends, sure to a degree it was my fault for how things were, but I just think I had bad friends too. Course telling them how they hurt me didn't seem to be much, but think in this life time, if not yet, they will probably get the exact same experience they put me through that was negative or would it be sort of something not related but it will hurt them? Also, just because you don't see karma being done to those that hurt you, does it mean it's not real?

Heh someone said it's even bad wanting to see karma done to someone that really hurt you. I guess that makes sense because you're having negative intent, wanting to see the person hurt.

(Is it really hard to find true friends? I wonder if it's karma that i had bad friends, but I definitely learned that yes, it hurts but I shouldn't give future friends many chances as I did with past friends).

 

[Anna]

I don't believe in the concept of karma as it is commonly understood.

I don't believe that what I did or didn't do in a past life has directly caused me to either suffer or be happy in this life.

I don't believe that if someone commits a crime and the Human Justice fails to punish them adequately, that "karma" will catch up with them and make them pay.

I don't believe that if I hurt someone it will come back to me, or that if someone hurts me it will come back on them.

I DO however, believe to the point of knowing, that everything has it's price. Both our actions and non-actions have consequences. So, consider all the possible outcomes before choosing a course of action.

The "Universe", Gods and Goddesses, Fate, Destiny, Karma, etc. are not in control of my life.

I am.

Nothing and nobody is in control of me.

People believe Karma works on the constructs of good and evil, but these constructs only exist in the societies of humans who crave order and structure and systems. They don't exist in nature, or out there is space, or in any of the other skins. We made them up. There are older and much more powerful laws at work in the Universe. These are the laws that matter. Laws such as the law of Cause and Effect and the law of Energy.

 

[danieljuk]

I do believe in Karma and try to follow rules about trying to do good and positive things!

It doesn't always come true though, bad things happen to good people fairly often. I do believe that eventually things will work out for people

you should be able to express yourself about those friends! If you take the belief in karma to the Nth degree it becomes the same as conservative religions. If you do anything "bad" you will be punished so always 'follow the rules'. I am mindful of that and I don't believe anyone is a Saint all the time!

there is a difference between ranting about them and being a person who is screwing over all their friends with their behaviour!

If you do something which could be karmically 'bad' for me the important life lesson is to learn from that. perhaps your karmic lesson CH is to find a much better group of friends! discover what you want in a friend!

 

[CelestialHorse]

Hehe thanks guys. interesting to see different view points. sadly old friends rehash negative feelings but today i realized that once i wanted to be their friend again but today i realized i dont want to if they came to me. they arent worthy nor do they deserve more chances.

as for karma, i wish it was real but i have my doubts.

 

[Anna]

as for karma, i wish it was real but i have my doubts.

Why do you wish it was real?

 

[CelestialHorse]

I guess so the person knows how much yhey hurt the other but then again, they may not learn or care.

 

[PAMUYA]

I do believe in Karma. Becareful, just wishing them for the bad seeds of karma to ripen for your ex-friends is bad karma, and you in turn will suffer yet again. Wish them peace and to be free from suffering, that also helps to keep your mind in a peaceful place, keeping you from planting bad seeds, infact you will be planting good seed of karma for yourself. Find peace within, and then you will beable to find the compassion for them.

@ Anna:

I don't believe that if I hurt someone it will come back to me, or that if someone hurts me it will come back on them.

I DO however, believe to the point of knowing, that everything has it's price. Both our actions and non-actions have consequences. So, consider all the possible outcomes before choosing a course of action.

A bad deed will always live in your heart. You counterdict yourself... if everthing has it's price, than it does come back to you. That is Karma, you just call it something different. Karma means action...an action has its consequences.

 

[Anna]

@ Anna:

A bad deed will always live in your heart. You counterdict yourself... if everthing has it's price, than it does come back to you. That is Karma, you just call it something different. Karma means action...an action has its consequences.

No. There is an important difference.

Karma is the belief in some great cosmic punishment system.

The understanding that everything has it's price, and that actions have consequences are laws that you can make use of. By understanding that I must pay a price, I can choose what that will be. For instance; I know that doing too many tarot readings gives me headaches. So, I either do less tarot readings OR I accept that the cost to me will be a bad headache.

By understanding that my actions have consequences, I can carefully plan my actions anticipating what the consequences will be.

For instance; if someone does me wrong and I choose to challenge them on that, the consequences might be that this person never speaks to me again. Or perhaps the consequences would be that this person goes around talking about me to people I care about; in that case, I think carefully about the words that I will use when I challenge the person so that when they relate the story, I don't look bad.

The concepts of right and wrong, good and bad, evil, etc. where invented by mankind to create order. The Catholic church used to do an excellent job of ensuring everyone lived in fear of an eternal punishment for wrongdoing on earth, thus ensuring the majority behaved themselves. Now it seems the idea of Karma is doing a similar job.

 

[Milfoil]

There is another good thread about Karma here:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=114489

I particularly like ravenest's comments on it.

Numerous times I have found people having this trouble with the idea of karma tied in with guilt, punishment and some type of universal 'evening out' force.

Forget it! It will only f*** your head up - just like Christian guilt trips will. Dont get caught up in mixing that up with some type of karmic retribution or justification for the caste system - as it is sometimes used in the east.

karma basically means that if you do something it will have repoductions; cut down all the trees and you could create soil erosion and locally decrease rainfall. whip your dog and it could turn out vicious (or paranoid). Refuse to help the poor and you might end up facing a revolution.

But dont forget .... sometimes sh*t just happens? Why? Because you were there - because of the ' blind forces of the universe' (I dont mean to discount other processes, just reminding that there are THESE ones as well).

We often try to put sense into life that isnt there. My friend died young from cancer ... she didnt deserve it, nor did I have to think she was bad in this life or any other ... people get sick , the world isnt perfect, sh*t happens, it doesnt necassarily mean that the person has some cosmic debt to pay, and that approach can lead to a certain madness (the type where my friends father actually blamed her disease on her for not thinking right - ie. the way he thought) not EVERYTHING has to have a cosmic reason, and if trying to find one is messing with your head, guilt, self-confidence and reason, then perhaps that is not the answer.

Often, instead of pondering some past wrong we can find that the result of our 'suffering' is due to much more recent mistakes that we ignored - if I get really sick I will think it COULD be years of smoking cigarettes, not the fact that I did something wrong in a past life.

many so called eastern wisdom teachings have been greatly mis/re-interpreted in their transition to the west, or in their useage as justification for injustice in the east.

 

[Milfoil]

The concepts of good and bad are mutable depending on the person, situation and culture. What a vegan sees as bad (eating meat) is not a belief held by all so the concept of Karmic forces living on in the heart of anyone who has done anything 'bad' is difficult to pin down.

If I believe that something I did was bad, then the consequences can be several; that I face it, make amends, change and forgive myself, block it out, hide from it and carry it around like a weight. Our choices do have consequences but it is all our choices, not just the once deemed as being 'bad'. Our positive choices have consequences too - everything does, the whole world is one big seething, consequential machine, constantly adapting to the incalculable decisions, actions and movements of everything in the Universe both on mundane and more subtle levels.

Karma as a notion of 'bad stuff comes back to those who do bad stuff', however, just doesn't prove itself to be true and probably because their notion of of 'bad' differs to ours. (shrug)