Marseilles pips - the sevens

Moonbow

Rusty Neon has started several threads recently regarding marseilles cards, (in particular the pips). Their interpretation and associations (but not History) and as a continuation I would like to start a thread on the sevens.

For me, studying, and using the marseilles pips has been very useful in understanding the deck.

I know many of you have a marseilles deck (and some don't use it!) so this is your chance.

So please everyone, and anyone - old and new, experienced and inexperienced and anyone in between..... get those sevens out, spend some time with them and post your thoughts here.

I have done mine but will post later, after others have had a chance.

Moonbow*
 

Rusty Neon

I thought the idea was that we'd finish off the Fours thread with all four suits in one thread but that for the higher numbers, we'd be doing one thread for each suit of that number, e.g., for the Sevens, a separate thread for each of 7 of Coins, 7 of Batons, 7 of Cups, and 7 of Swords. If people want, they could also have a 5th thread for the Seven, to discuss energies and general symbolism of the number 7.
 

Moonbow

OK fine by me, I didn't know we were doing a separate thread for each suit of that number. I chose sevens because there isn't anything already started on them.

Are we doing each number in order then? So next would be the fives? If so I will ask the moderator to delete this thread. If not maybe we can change this thread title to, say, 7 of Coins and go from there?
 

jmd

There is no reason why various endeavours cannot run concurrently.

Having a thread on the sevens goes beyond their numerological aspects, and can also provide for comparisons.

One of the interesting aspect of these cards, if one compares the four sevens, is that the Bastons, the Cups and the Swords each display three pairs and a seventh with centres these. The Coins/Deniers, however, is such that neither are there three pairs, nor is the single coin centred, but rather, interestingly, placed within its own womb at the card's height's Golden Mean.

The suit of Coins, in this card, is also the only which somehow separates each of the single representations, pod-like. By contrast - the Bastons and the Swords are of course clearly connected within their respective representation - the Cups are grouped by the folliage.

Whereas the Cups seem to lead the eye to horizontal shelves (rows), the Coins, by contrast, seem to persevere towards vertical growth (columns). Whereas the Bastons seem to sprout outwards in expansive energies, the Swords seem to focus from a single contained point towards precise directed and pointed energy.

Further details will of course be better discussed in individual card description, but I do think that looking at these in comparison - and also at times in isolation of the progression they may each make within their respective suit (which is also important) - has many revealing aspects.
 

Rusty Neon

hi all ... I agree with jmd. As I've noted in another thread, there are (at least) three alternative yet complementary ways of covering the pip cards:

(1) Same-number thread: studying the four same-number cards of each suit, one number per thread;

(2) Same-suit thread: studying all pips of the same suit, one suit per thread; and

(3) Single-card thread: studying each pip card, one card per thread.

Between options (1) and (2), option (2) is the most meaningful for me. And jmd has made wonderful arguments in support
thereof.

However, option (1) and especially option (2) would result in difficult threads to navigate and post to, if you want to go beyond "general" observations and actually talk in detail about the individual cards, as there would be quite a few cards per single thread. Thus, option (3) is a manageable less confusing way of accomplishing options (1) and (2). With option (3), one can do posts in manageable chunks (one post per card), which for me (at least) is more fun and less resembles work. (Work is for my day job.) As well, with one card per thread, we may even have the chance for more questions and discussion, instead of each of us being monks and posting essays in a vacuum.

As jmd has mentioned, there's no reason why we can't have all three types of approaches. In any event, you guys can do it however you wish. Frankly, it doesn't matter to me.

In my case, any _detailed_ observations that I'd ever be doing about the pip cards would be in an option (3) thread, or in thematic threads like the Associations thread, or in readings. On the other hand, for option (1) and (2) threads -- assuming that I were even to post to such threads -- I'd only be doing _very general_ "design" observations, rather than detailed discussion/ divinatory-meanings of individual cards.

My two centavos.
 

Moonbow

The Sevens - Hadar

My general thoughts on the Sevens:

Can cards look male and female? I know seven is a masculine number but looking at the comparisons between the four cards the batons and swords have a male feel about them and the cups and coins, a female feel.

The cups and coins have more curves and have a flowing feeling to them. There is more vine/plant in the cups and coins cards and the 7th item (cup and coin) is encircled by the vine.

The swords and batons have less plant entwined and are more rigid in form. There is also alot of black in these two suits which gives a masculine feel. The swords show the flower heads cut off.

The central cup is surrounded by and almost heart shaped vine. The 7th coin is being grabbed the vine. The batons energy is expoding outwards, the swords energy is in the sharpness of the severed buds.

I will post in the indivdual 7's threads also.

Moonbow*
 

Rusty Neon

Re: The Sevens - Hadar

Hi Moonbow*

MB: Can cards look male and female? I know seven is a masculine number but looking at the comparisons between the four cards the batons and swords have a male feel about them and the cups and coins, a female feel.

**RN: Various occultists do view the Batons and Swords suits in general as masculine (yang) and Cups and Coins as feminine (yin). The yang of the 7 may be expressed differently in masculine vs. feminine suits, and within each of the four suits.

MB: The cups and coins have more curves and have a flowing feeling to them. There is more vine/plant in the cups and coins cards and the 7th item (cup and coin) is encircled by the vine. The swords and batons have less plant entwined and are more rigid in form. There is also alot of black in these two suits which gives a masculine feel. The swords show the flower heads cut off.

**RN: As a general rule, the Cups and Coins cards have, throughout their respective suits, more curves and vine/plant than do Batons and Swords throughout their respective suits. This coincides, probably coincidentally, with their feminine vs. masculine natures. The explanation for such design differences may be that circular objects such as cups and coins beg themselves more than batons and swords to be surrounded by encircling vegetation.

MB: The central cup is surrounded by and almost heart shaped vine. The 7th coin is being grabbed the vine. The batons energy is expoding outwards, the swords energy is in the sharpness of the severed buds.

**RN: I've also noticed heart shapes in the 2, 3 and 5 of Cups cards. I wonder whether this was done on purpose by the original designers. In any event, it's very fitting for a suit often associated with the heart and emotions. It's a wonderful coincidence (or its a concidence?) that the Cups suit corresponds to the playing card deck suit of Hearts.