Myths

[gregory]

Myths are far more complex than people usually realise. Trying to "explain" them isn't easy, and using them to make a point rarely works unless the listener is STEEPED in myth before you try. (I am, actually, have been all my life, and your take on these didn't make sense to me either, re-pete-a.)

Myths were created to explain the inexplicable. If we try to explain THEM we are ourselves trying to explain the inexplicable. They have to be used with our instincts and subconsciouses (is that a word ? it is now... - OK - subconscious minds !) NOT with our rational minds. That's the POINT of myths. They are so un-intellectual and so VERY back to basics. I love them.

Opinions ?

 

[re-pete-a]

apparently the good ones are up to 7 layers deep...Some on the other hand are just BS..

I wasn't trying to explain myths ...I was talking from personal experiences and using the myths to point out that these things are not just in my head, and have been around for aeons...

A lot of the myths are pointing out the same experiences...Some I can see through...others bamboozal me...

 

[ravenest]

I wasn't trying to explain myths ...I was talking from personal experiences and using the myths to point out that these things are not just in my head, and have been around for aeons...

But if you are using a myth to explain a thought you are having (and yes re-pete-a it IS a thought and an intellectual process in your mind ... I know you don't like to admit it but you DO operate on that level and through your mind) ...'in my head' ... and to show that the idea is 'not just in my head' you then make up a meaning for the myth which the myth isn't about at all ... it actually doesn't demonstrate anything.

You made up a meaning in your head and then projected that meaning into the outside world, into a myth, and then misquoted the meaning of the myth as an outside source, to validate the thought in your head as not originating in there.

Isn't this exactly the process you are always pointing out about other minds ... and how they (the rational mind) projects its ego and cant see reality?

[ E.G. I think we should all awake at dawn ... this just isn't my idea because the myth of Jason and Medea is all about how if you sleep through dawn you will miss the sunrise. So as you can see this just isn't my idea ... its in a myth. ]

... get it?

 

[Zephyros]

Storytelling is perhaps the oldest form of communication, and for some reason humans have always favored it. A myth relays emotion, excitement, purpose, a moral, advice. I would be hard put to classify the myth, as even modern stories have mythical roots, and can be used in much the same capacity.

What is this thread about again?

 

[gregory]

apparently the good ones are up to 7 layers deep...Some on the other hand are just BS..

I wasn't trying to explain myths ...I was talking from personal experiences and using the myths to point out that these things are not just in my head, and have been around for aeons...

A lot of the myths are pointing out the same experiences...Some I can see through...others bamboozal me...

I think myths have far more layers than seven. Could you be confusing that with Northop Frye, who said (in his Circle of Stories) that there are only seven stories, and every story that exists falls into one or other of them (please don't ask me what they are; I can remember a couple, but I haven't the books with me... But it works; I have spent many happy hours testing...)

Myths are far deeper than that. I wouldn't even think of trying to explain myself and my thoughts with them ! That would be the height of egotism. They deserve better.

 

[Zephyros]

Although academic scholars of folklore take his work to task, and with very (very) good reason, Joseph Campbell suggested something similar in the form of the monomyth. Roughly speaking, he suggested there is one main story, which branches out to all others. Campbell's work with myth does not stand up to peer scrutiny, but there is a certain emotional satisfaction to it, especially when connected to Star Wars and, of course, Tarot.

In a way myths are just like esoteric attributions to cards, additional symbols with which to observe and interpret our lives and surroundings. Certainly connecting the myth of Demeter and Persephone with Virgo and the Hermit adds untold depth to both the card and the story in a two-way relationship. Parable of the seasons it may be (as are many myths used to explain natural phenomena) but it also holds deep meaning even for day to day life. Like Tarot, a myth has the potential to hold you at a moment and garner immediate response and perhaps wisdom.

Of course, one can't ignore (at least, I can't) the sexual connotations of the myth. While telling of external actions, many of them tell of sexual coming of age. A blatant example is Parzival thrusting the Spear of Longinus into the Holy Grail, or the tower Rapunzel occupies, the symbolism of both of which should be obvious.

 

[Chiska]

Moderator Note

I have cut quite a bit from this thread in order to bring it back in line. Some of this was my fault for including some posts that should not have been when I split the topic from the Contentment thread.

Please remember to keep the discussion on topic and NOT drift off into meta discussion. Meta discussion accomplishes nothing. It really doesn't, except to make more work for me and other moderators who must constantly snip it out.

If you just cannot stand another poster, then PLEASE put them on ignore.

Chiska

 

[Richard]

Myths are far more complex than people usually realise. Trying to "explain" them isn't easy, and using them to make a point rarely works unless the listener is STEEPED in myth before you try. (I am, actually, have been all my life, and your take on these didn't make sense to me either, re-pete-a.)

Myths were created to explain the inexplicable. If we try to explain THEM we are ourselves trying to explain the inexplicable. They have to be used with our instincts and subconsciouses (is that a word ? it is now... - OK - subconscious minds !) NOT with our rational minds. That's the POINT of myths. They are so un-intellectual and so VERY back to basics. I love them.

Opinions ?

Are you now the OP for this thread, gregory? I thought it was re-pete-a, but somehow I was mistaken. I would rather not repeat that mistake.

While it is true that the primary purpose of myth is to explain what cannot be communicated rationally, this does not mean that rational analysis of myth is without value, and I am sure you know this, gregory. (I am just reintroducing the intellectual element into the mix.) The historical and philosophical analyses of myth by Sir James George Frazer and Joseph Campbell (although both are flawed) are of enormous benefit in adapting the ancient stories to our present understanding of reality and making them meaningful to cultures which did not even exist when the myths were originally formulated. (I wanted to illustrate my point using the solar myth of the dying and rising god, but found in the process that there was no stopping point, so that was not feasible. However, my failure corresponds to the reality that the sun does not really die and rise at all but only appears to do so. The cycles are endless unless we manage to do something to screw them up).

 

[ravenest]

Although academic scholars of folklore take his work to task, and with very (very) good reason, Joseph Campbell ...

The historical and philosophical analyses of myth by Sir James George Frazer and Joseph Campbell (although both are flawed)

C & LR can you direct me to the source / researchers who take this work to task or see it as flawed ? ... I'd like to read it

 

[Richard]

C & LR can you direct me to the source / researchers who take this work to task or see it as flawed ? ... I'd like to read it

I'm not sure if this will or will not be my final post on AT. Anyhow, here we go. The consensus I have gathered has been mostly from the internet. To some extent it may be due to other researchers who wish to add their identities to the limelight. Of course there may be inaccuracies in the research of Frazer and Campbell, but in my opinion they are for the most part right on target.

Note: This post has been privately recorded.