Predictive Methods


We are after all studying Astrology - the word or message of the stars, not Astrophysics - the physical properties and dynamic processes of celestial objects. The latter might well be very helpful in establishing the context of the message but the message is more than the properties and processes.

Well-said. After doggedly chasing the fine details for years, I now believe in honing the precision only to the point that I consistently get results I can accept as reasonably accurate. (I guess you could say I've evolved into a pragmatist from my previous state of hyper-rationalism.) For example, in rectification I'm finding that the precessed angles and planets seem to "tighten up" the timing of past events. Granted, in the charts I'm working with they shift less than one degree from their tropical ephemeris positions, but in looking for partile aspects it has some relevance. I'm working with them now in prediction since I can see their subtle contribution to rectification. And as an hermetic qabalist of long standing I certainly consider even the vaguest glimpses of the "mind" of God largely inscrutable until VERY high levels of attainment (if then). All we have to go on is what we can see of the "works" of that mind on the planes we're able to reach. It's been said that tarot functions on the "astral" plane similar to activities like scrying, whereas astrology would seem to operate on the "mental" plane. Put another way, I believe it was Eliphas Levi (but don't quote me on that :)) who called tarot the "silver key" and astrology the "gold key" to enlightenment.

Edit: I didn't find it here, but this is an interesting site: key of the mysteries.pdf


To help those who are learning Astrology, I'm posting a thread on predictive methods. This is a result of issues raised in another thread and I can see that making the step from casting and interpreting a natal (or indeed mundane) chart,there comes a time to move on to the next stage of predicting what comes next.

I'm not going to go through the methods in detail, some of them have been the subject of threads elsewhere, or have appeared within threads. Instead I'm going to do an introduction (and I'm hoping this will be added to by others in subsequent posts) and add links to the methods, where they have been dealt with in those other threads. The latter may develop over time as it requires some real attempt to examine previous threads for predictive methods. Again, I hope that others, especially Dave, will add links to their own threads, opinions, etc.

I'll also try to add some books but I'm going to do that as an associated thread as there are so many and others may have read or prefer other books or may have different views than mine, so their posts would be welcomed there.

I'll make this thread a stick and I hope that it will grow over time, with further posts from me and others about our methods and preferences but especially from those who are learning and want to ask questions, or relate their experiences with the methods.

Please feel free to ask any questions relating to predictive methods here, or post your observations. The thread is inteded to be helpful but it is not, nor can it be a teaching thread - it's hopefully a resource.

One of my favorite authors is Celeste Teal. She introduces many effective prediction techniques, including converse charts (for example, the converse progressed chart). I have found that to be useful.


For Barleywine --- Solar Returns

A previous post noted your interest in Solar Returns and the several books you have read regarding Solar Returns. I'll offer a few random comments on Solar Returns.

** When one casts a Solar Return chart, the actual day of the Return and the actual time of the day will appear to be random. By this I mean that the Sun/Sun position may be in any house. This will cause the S/R Ascendant to be different, except in a few cases, from the natal Ascendant. In other words, your natal chart is reoriented relative to the Solar Return's angles and house structure.

** If one casts two or more Solar Returns for themselves, all for the same location, they will note that each successive S/R MC will shift forward some 90 degrees per year. This moves the Sun some 3 houses, also. Since this is a regular, repeating phenomena, this is the indication that Solar Returns are cyclic.

** Precession correction is a "small thing." 1/72nd of a degree, approximately, per year. At 36 years of age this amounts to a 1/2 degree. Calculating a S/R with precession correction will shift the angles and house structure of the chart by some 180 degrees. Being, now, 77 years of age, my precession corrected S/R chart will occur more than one day later than a conventional "Tropical" S/R chart.

** It is easy to compare a standard tropical Solar Return chart (TSR) with a precession corrected Solar Return (pcSR). They will have differing MC and Asc. positions. It is also easy to compare a pcSR and a Sidereal Solar Return (SSR) as they will have totally different sign and degree angles --- BUT the relative positions of the Sun, Moon, and planets compared to the angles and houses will be identical in the pcSR and SSR charts. Only the reference circle of signs and degrees is different. This is much like measuring your foot size in inches or centimeters. Different measuring systems but the same foot.
Capable astrologers easily switch back and forth among the various astrological systems.

** Because S/R charts are cyclic in nature, those of us who use pcSR or SSR methods read and treat the SR as a cyclic chart. By that I mean that the SR is both a year-theme chart and a single day chart. Because it is cyclic, the S/R can be "progressed" or moved forward a day at a time for any date in the following S/R annual period. These cyclic charts are read as a series of camera "snap shots", showing a developing series of events, attitudes, actions and situations. These are interpreted within the context of the subject's lifestyle.

** In cyclic charts the natal charts are seen as "how we as adults have chosen to express each of the astrological bodies." The transiting bodies are most often treated as representing seemingly-external influences, changes and/or intrusions. I would note that these transiting planets will often be expressed along the nature of the natal version of that planet. Natal and transiting planet expressions relate to the angles they are near and the S/R houses they are in.

** To summarize part of the above statements: A Solar Return is more than a transit-to-a-natal chart. The SR adds an altered house structure to the mix, whereas a transit chart just shows transiting planets relative to natal planets and houses. The altered SR house structure symbolizes this years "new experience and influence" as represented by the Solar Return.

** Finally, you noted several Solar Return books. I have just about every book on SRs written. Plus one more --- the one I have just written which is intended to be an updated version of Cyril Fagans Solar Return Primer. "Personal Prediction" is a fundamental introduction to precession corrected Solar Returns and Progressed Daily Angles charts. It offers new interpretive methods, gives numerous examples, and shows the astrologer how to use the methods to assess how one has actualized their potential. This last is an often discussed subject by lecture-astrologers but nobody has brought forward a simple method for doing so --- except for Personal Prediction. Not only that, the author (me) has worked with the developer of RIYAL software (free to download and use software) to include the tools to carry out these methods. There is no other software capable of doing this. Personal Prediction, ISBN 978-0-615-63033-5 Dave


21 years Astrologer, i would like to tell that
1. Transits.
2. Secondary Progressions
3. Secondary Progressions receiving Transits.
4. Solar Arc Directions.
are the essential and necessary methods and their combination 100% accurate for me to predict the future.

Natal chart partner - Progressed chart other's partner.
Composite and transits.
Transits over Natal-Progressed synastry.

Μidpoints only conjuncts, oppositions and squares.

Pay attention to separating - approaching transits and the orbis.


MasterMind, thank you for this post! I have wondered how reading tbe chart is broken down, now i have a guide to help me better understand...;)


Primary Directions according to Martin Gansten

It's been awhile Minderwiz,

Some time ago, you mentioned Martin Gansten's book Primary Directions - Astrology's Old Master Technique. I have been contemplating about purchasing this book for learning how to interpret directions.

However, from what I've seen in Dorotheus, Ptolemy and Valens, the technique that came to be known as Primary Directions was only used by them to forecast the length of life. In your opinion, which author was the first to expand the use of PD to other aspects of life other than the length of life?




It's been awhile Minderwiz,

Some time ago, you mentioned Martin Gansten's book Primary Directions - Astrology's Old Master Technique. I have been contemplating about purchasing this book for learning how to interpret directions.

However, from what I've seen in Dorotheus, Ptolemy and Valens, the technique that came to be known as Primary Directions was only used by them to forecast the length of life. In your opinion, which author was the first to expand the use of PD to other aspects of life other than the length of life?



The short answer is that I don't know. :)

It's certainly medieval in terms of its extension to life in general rather than specifically the length of life in particular. I picked up the technique from Lilly and Morin, when I mainly concentrated on a seventeenth century approach.

Lilly actually does give a run down of the technique and where he got it from. His main source was Andrea Argoli,, who he refers to as Argolus. Argoli lived from 1570 to 1657 and so was still alive when Lilly wrote his Christian Astrology Book III. Argoli was part of a movement to decipher what Ptolemy really meant and to construct an accurate version of Ptolemy and to if possible bring it up to date, whilst remaining true to the original (reference his book Primum Mobile).

Lilly goes on to say that before Regiomontanus (Johannes Muller, 1436-1476) produced tables '"Antiquity"' was much perplexed on directing a significator which did not lie on the cusp of a house. So that puts us back to the middle of the fifteenth century.

Lilly does refer directly to Ptolemy's method, or at least the version he has through David Origanus (1558-1628). He does not refer to Bonatti, (1207-1296) and Gansten himself describes Bonatti's treatment of directions as being 'scant'. Gansten really sees no development in the method between Ptolemy and Regiomontanus.

Now that doesn't mean that medieval writers did not make the attempt and Gansten refers to Sahl in his book but not in a direct 'smoking gun' way. He does seem to have been a link in a chain between Ptolemy and through Omar Tiberiades (Umar at-Tabari, c815) Alcabitius, who gives a detailed description of Ptolemy's method and al Biruni describes the method of Ptolemaic directions as 'long and difficult'.

So it appears that no real extension was made in terms of the application of the technique until Regiomontanus developed his tables. The main use therefore falls in the sixteenth and especially the seventeenth centuries.

If you're concentrating on Hellenistic and early Medieval Astrology, I don't think Gansten will help you. If you simply want to know how the method became more widespread and what it looked like at its zenith, then Gansten is good.

Be warned though, Gansten uses a sidereal zodiac and if you want to check his examples you'll find a mathematical challenge. I ended up developing a spreadsheet to cope with it. Of course you can fall back on Morinus, which deals well with PDs (Gansten rates it the best) and is, of course, free'


Hello again Minderwiz,

That was a good and sufficient overview of the situation. :) I am focusing on the Hellenistic approach, so I will probably skip Gansten's book for now. Thanks for the information Minderwiz, it was really helpful. :thumbs up:




Very nice so much info, so much to learn.


Are there prediction methods for very short period of time i.e. daily / weekly events?