someone's animal

[MandMaud]

I doubt I'll put this coherently because it hasn't been turning over in my mind very long, but if you can bear to read muddly ramblings, here's the question.

Background: spirit animals / guardian animals / whatever you call them. Important animals that come to you (to one), or watch over or are generally present in the background. In the foreground for people who are aware, but that isn't most people.

(I'm sort of halfway into this stuff, the door's going to open suddenly and I'll know what I'm talking about, but I haven't seen much yet. I know you don't just have one animal for the duration of your whole life, and not all stay around very long, but I also know they are around and a few have visited me. That's more background, being what "level" I'm at with this subject. )

Another person's spirit animal or whichever term you prefer... My healer (and other healers I visited a few times before meeting the one I've worked with a lot) knows people and animals are around, and knows they're not "hers" so they must be "mine" - I feel I should correct that to: not here for her, so they must be here for me. So that tells me that we can see/meet animals that aren't our own (or guardians, or companions... I hate having to have a term in actual, speakable language, for everything!).

But when they don't come along of their own accord?

There is someone in my mind, on my mind, a lot lately. A working relationship, a tradesman who did major work on my house, and reneged on our contract and left me with repairs to get done. I chose NOT to pursue him legally, because I value my time and energy (and I value staying away from negative interactions) more than getting what I have a "right" to legally.

Anyway, I'm pretty businesslike and objective in non-family things, and was surprised how much the man himself stayed in my mind. He is a strong personality, but so are many owners of small businesses; that wasn't it. I realised that the pattern of our interaction mirrored, paralleled, the pattern of my interaction with my ex. It took 24 years (26 if you count the two before we married) for me to tread that path with my ex and learn all the things I had to learn from that... and it took about 3 months with this tradesman, but the overall shape - shifting balance of power, dishonesty, etc - were just the same "storyline".

I took it with joy: this time I recognised him as a bad'un and didn't get bewildered and drawn in, in short I saw through him, and wasn't "caught" - which confirmed that I have indeed learnt the lessons from my marriage (or at least that particular lesson!). He has clung in my mind but that didn't worry me, as I knew he had triggered the mini-story and replayed my relationship with my ex, so of course it touched something deep.

But the patching-up will cost too much; I have to pursue my complaint. I have procrastinated, and that's not like me, and then I realised that it was because I didn't want to cross swords with him again - I don't want anything further to do with him. And THEN I recognised my feeling as fear. I actually had a nightmare a couple of nights ago in which he followed me out of a night club and I ended up calling 999 to be rescued because he was getting violent. I really don't want this guy back, I want to write him out of my life and put him in the past.

And I've asked, and the first step legally has to be putting my complaint in writing *to him* and requesting that *he* (his company) come back to complete the work they left incomplete, and make the repairs. Only when they refuse or fail to reply can I go elsewhere.

Sorry, this is more background than I intended to give. But maybe it is not useless.

Anyway, there's a lot of physicality in this. He is very Alpha Male and obviously proud of it. I was attracted, in a non-serious way (nice to have this around the house for a week or so kind of way), until I recognised the shape of the energy; I bet most people who meet him are attracted, he's very tall, very fit, and very confident (and a volunteer firefighter in his spare time). When I think 'physicality' I keep thinking 'animal' nature.

... circling back to the animal thing which is my question here.

It occurred to me today that I need to identify what animal he is, to me. If you see what i mean. You know those things, "If you were a breed of dog, which breed would you be?" (my first bf was a yellow labrador) - I feel that i need to pin this guy down as an animal so as to get the measure of him and know how to deal with him. I've tried all sorts of clearing to get him out of my psyche, because he's stuck there, and I haven't dug the roots out successfully; I need a clearer visual form to work with.

So, the questions.

• - Is it unethical to seek anyone's animal without their permission or knowledge and without the animal choosing to visit me?

• - Is it dangerous, am I taking a risk?

• - To my surprise, when I wondered, I didn't immediately see his animal. (I'm used to answering that "which breed" thing without trying.) How should I start, how to get access?

I won't obediently take your opinions on the ethical question, I'll read all views and find I know my own answer. This is why I'm asking. Obviously each of my questions hangs on the previous one being "ok".

I sense that my inability to pick up on his animal wasn't because I'm not supposed to, but because he lives as a "hidden" or "dark" creature. (This is really dramatic language, and these are my own terms, not referring to any system which uses them - I don't know of any such system, but if you do I'd be interested!)

Sorry this is so long. Maybe not rambling, but bloody long. I had a glass of wine this evening. And I didn't edit!

 

[RiverRunsDeep]

Is it unethical to seek anyone's animal without their permission or knowledge and without the animal choosing to visit me?

Intention is everything. When I read your post, it didn't sound as if your
intention is to contact his actual animal totem. It sounds as if you are trying
to connect his personality with a likely animal totem that will help you to disengage from his energy. I think those are two totally different things. Your
intent seems no different than assigning someone a color or a mood in order
to carry out the required energy work. In that case, I don't believe it is
unethical.

Is it dangerous, am I taking a risk?

Are you afraid that by connecting him with an animal totem, you are also
more strongly connecting with his energy? In your position, I would ground
and protect myself, then specify to my spirit guides what my intention is.
Keep it firmly in your mind that the idea is to disengage, not to become more
entangled.

To my surprise, when I wondered, I didn't immediately see his animal. (I'm used to answering that "which breed" thing without trying.) How should I start, how to get access?

It sounds like you have enough emotional involvement (especially with your
past history with your ex) to make it difficult being objective. Maybe you
could go to an animal totems site and do some exploring until you get
that "Ah-ha" moment.

Sorry this is so long. Maybe not rambling, but bloody long. I had a glass of wine this evening. And I didn't edit!

Well, at this point, I have had more wine than you, so I hope I have been
helpful.

 

[Thoughtful]

This man appears to be still in your psyche because its unfinished business. Did you contact him to find out why he left you with unfinished work (reasonable question), is he a rogue, is he ill, does he have family matters to attend to.
l do not work with Animal Totems so cannot comment on it. Though l did have a medium once tell me l had a large Eagle with me. Interesting subject. Why do you need to know his Totem Animal would it make any difference to the state he left you in. Hopefully the situation can be resolved for you

 

[MandMaud]

This man appears to be still in your psyche because its unfinished business.

Yes, but it's years since someone stayed clinging like this, I can always clear their energy more or less easily. This has been months. There's plenty of unfinished business in life which doesn't leave me stuck with it like this!

Did you contact him to find out why he left you with unfinished work (reasonable question), is he a rogue, is he ill, does he have family matters to attend to.

It's the rogue option. He came back with a couple of guys to do the little finishing things (corrections, repairs, bits they hadn't quite completed) and at one point, I mentioned one more thing (which we'd already talked about), and he downed tools and walked away - "You just keep asking for one more thing and one more thing" - "In fifteen years I've never had a client like you" - etc. I would have examined my own approach in my youth, but I do know I wasn't being unreasonable and wasn't even being brusque in my tone of voice. When I pointed out he was under contract to complete the work (I'd already paid), so he was breaking his contract, he said yes he was. He actual words were, "So sue me!" But my health didn't allow taking on that kind of admin project, which we both knew, and when I said that, he said, "Then you can't." My health didn't even allow me to shop around costing up other tradesmen to do the repairs that are left, for a long time after that. Business happens gradually in my life.

I suspect he under-estimated and the work cost him more than I paid - but our agreement was that the amount wouldn't go up no matter what was found once they got behind the walls and under the floors - so he'd run out of money. Based on my ex's way of dealing with mistakes, he put the blame on me for asking for things he'd undertaken to do, rather than himself for failing to do them. I'm sure he would have acted differently if I'd had clout, for example if he believed I could sue.

He has might-is-right running in his veins, and it's alien to me, but I learnt to speak that language in dealing with my ex. It is good to have life bring me such a good example of a gain I've made from being married to him. But I did think that seeing that benefit would be the end of this lesson. It seems there's still more.

And I can't sue, but I also can't keep living with a hole in the garage ceiling, shelves not replaced on the walls, lots of details not done as I specified on my diagrams, and it's now looking like the electrics may not be properly done (though that's far from certain). It will cost more than the £500 contingency fund kept back from my payment to him. So I have to do this thing which I cannot do. Hey, I'm used to taking on things I can't do.

I'm disappointed because there are plenty of other things I would spend the time on - a small project to earn some money for a change; going into the financial arrangements with my ex, which are more in my favour than we realised, but it's up to me to make something happen about that; other repairs; getting someone to take some branches off a tree that almost blocks the front path; general everyday life such as grocery shopping, and meals and laundry! And I have to pack for going away, then recover from going away, in time to start on the huge project which is Christmas. Etc etc etc...

Not going after this guy was a practical decision, a business decision. On past form, once that decision is made, I'm always able to get clear of the person's energy. That's why this has puzzled me so much.

Why do you need to know his Totem Animal would it make any difference to the state he left you in.

Good question - basically, I've been working on clearing myself of his energy, and when each approach didn't do the trick I have tried another. My intuition is telling me I need a very clear image in my mind, and I know I'll be able to address that and not only state my boundaries but enforce them. The animal-ness of him means I can see him better as animal than person. And all the demi-human beings he is visually similar to, I have positive associations with (minotaur, gryphon, titan). The physical looks aren't the thing, anyway, in doing this.

 

[MandMaud]

Intention is everything. When I read your post, it didn't sound as if your intention is to contact his actual animal totem. It sounds as if you are trying to connect his personality with a likely animal totem that will help you to disengage from his energy. I think those are two totally different things. Your intent seems no different than assigning someone a color or a mood in order to carry out the required energy work. In that case, I don't believe it is unethical.

Thank you. Yes, I needed that reminder that intention is the whole point. I have asked myself if I mean him harm, too, and I think the part of me that wants to bury him in concrete and throw him in the river () is the emotional me only, not me. If you know what I mean. I can keep that intention out of the energy work, is what i mean.

Also, the animal can say no if it doesn't want to deal with me. I would not force it to be present even if I knew how. It's not a baby to be made to do anything it doesn't fully understand.

Are you afraid that by connecting him with an animal totem, you are also more strongly connecting with his energy? In your position, I would ground and protect myself, then specify to my spirit guides what my intention is. Keep it firmly in your mind that the idea is to disengage, not to become more entangled.

I suppose that is my concern, yes. In this case I'm not 100% confident that i can manage my defences sufficiently. Maybe I can find someone to work with me on this...

It sounds like you have enough emotional involvement especially with your past history with your ex) to make it difficult being objective. Maybe you could go to an animal totems site and do some exploring until you get that "Ah-ha" moment.

Oh, I know that site! Thank you. I hadn't thought of going at it in such a prosaic way!

Well, at this point, I have had more wine than you, so I hope I have been helpful.

Looks like wine is good for coherent articulation after all!

 

[Iaconagraphy]

I've been working with Totem Animals via both the Native American Tradition and the Druidic Tradition for over twenty years, so let me see if I can give you some answers:

- Is it unethical to seek anyone's animal without their permission or knowledge and without the animal choosing to visit me?

I agree wholeheartedly with the person who previously addressed intentions as it relates to this issue, however, on some levels, seeking someone else's Totem without their permission is on about the same ethical level as trying to find photos of their dog or cat without their permission: it all depends on what you plan to DO with that information, once you have it. (Again, intention.)

Once you know that person's animal, if it isn't choosing to visit you, that's probably a good sign that you need to leave the situation alone. That energy is trying to leave your life, so let it.

- Is it dangerous, am I taking a risk?

The biggest risk I personally see you taking right now is in continuing to dwell on this person and their negative energy. Choosing to dwell on things like this can easily cause a cascade effect in our lives: the more we return to that thought form, the more shape (and the more power) we give it in our lives, which is rarely a good thing in cases like this.

- To my surprise, when I wondered, I didn't immediately see his animal. (I'm used to answering that "which breed" thing without trying.) How should I start, how to get access?

I would recommend using either Jamie Sams' Medicine Cards, Ted Andrews' Animal-Wise Tarot, or Philip and Stephanie Carr-Gomm's Druid Animal Oracle, or finding someone who offers readings with any of the above (which I do). When all else fails, there's a card system for that. You could also perform bibliomancy using Ted Andrews' Animal Speak (which is a book that I recommend to ANY student of Totem Traditions).

 

[MandMaud]

I agree wholeheartedly with the person who previously addressed intentions as it relates to this issue, however, on some levels, seeking someone else's Totem without their permission is on about the same ethical level as trying to find photos of their dog or cat without their permission: it all depends on what you plan to DO with that information, once you have it. (Again, intention.)

I *think* that's what I instinctively thought. It isn't as if that person's animal belongs to them. If I say hello, it's up to the animal to respond or not... I don't take offence if someone else strokes my dog, nor if my dog wags her tail and loves them to bits. I find that reasonable. But some find it reasonable to be offended at a mere acquaintance "taking liberties" like this, so I second-guess my judgment.

I should add that it would (or will) only be an invitation. Not in any way a summons.

Partly, I'm thinking that if I can get a clear mental image of what animal "fits" this man, I'll be better able to keep his energy away from me. Like knowing what shape the dangerous beast is, so as to avoid it when it's hard to see in the undergrowth.

Once you know that person's animal, if it isn't choosing to visit you, that's probably a good sign that you need to leave the situation alone. That energy is trying to leave your life, so let it.

In fact my hope was to connect with the animal just enough to request that it leaves me alone. By 'request' I mean to state with very firm intention, making it clear I'm not to be messed around. I have done this once or twice in the past by tuning in to someone's energy and then making my point; and those times it worked. This is the first time the "animal" theme has been there though.

The biggest risk I personally see you taking right now is in continuing to dwell on this person and their negative energy. Choosing to dwell on things like this can easily cause a cascade effect in our lives: the more we return to that thought form, the more shape (and the more power) we give it in our lives, which is rarely a good thing in cases like this.

I'm familiar with this. In general it no longer traps me. When someone does stick in my mind, there's something else going on - and I've come to believe that it's someone else's will, a situation where my own experience isn't all that's going on.

The guy was angry and I could easily believe I stayed in his mind for a while too. Maybe his anger amounted to a directing of ill energy towards me... which again, I'm practised at deflecting, but of course we have less defence against that kind of thing while unaware of it. Needing to become more aware, I mean to learn the shape and character of the energy that was "sticking", is what led me to think about connecting with his animal.

I would recommend using either Jamie Sams' Medicine Cards, Ted Andrews' Animal-Wise Tarot, or Philip and Stephanie Carr-Gomm's Druid Animal Oracle, or finding someone who offers readings with any of the above (which I do). When all else fails, there's a card system for that. You could also perform bibliomancy using Ted Andrews' Animal Speak (which is a book that I recommend to ANY student of Totem Traditions).

Would you believe I hadn't thought of divination! (You prompted me to have a look at your website, by the way - it's a fantastic site. )

Since opening this thread I've moved a little further, learnt a little more on how to proceed legally. Gathering knowledge is all I've done so far, as I went away and other stuff is ongoing as well. Knowing a bit more makes the task closer to possible than impossible, and that reduces the fear, and that makes it feel even more possible... but again, fear is unusual for me in this kind of context.

Maybe if I knew him as an animal, and myself as an animal, I'd understand why I have fear. Say, if he were a spider and I a fly. (He's not and I'm not, it's an example.) Possible?

 

[Iaconagraphy]

Thanks for stopping by my site, and for the compliment! You officially made my day!

That "predator-prey" dynamic is very powerful, and very real, and a fantastic point! Also, if you could figure out your animal and his animal, you'd know how to avoid these same situations in the future: for example, be careful of __________ Totem people, for they are predatory. I believe you said you figured out your ex's animal. Sounds like this guy is that times two, more or less. Did you say Golden Retriever for your ex? If so, perhaps this guy is a Coyote (because Wolves tend to be noble, rather than Tricksters, and this guy lends himself more to Trickster).

 

[MandMaud]

Thanks for stopping by my site, and for the compliment! You officially made my day!

That "predator-prey" dynamic is very powerful, and very real, and a fantastic point! Also, if you could figure out your animal and his animal, you'd know how to avoid these same situations in the future: for example, be careful of __________ Totem people, for they are predatory. I believe you said you figured out your ex's animal. Sounds like this guy is that times two, more or less. Did you say Golden Retriever for your ex? If so, perhaps this guy is a Coyote (because Wolves tend to be noble, rather than Tricksters, and this guy lends himself more to Trickster).

I do think the predator/prey thing may be it. That only just occurred to me, as I was typing. Actually the yellow lab was a different ex(!) - a boyfriend I only went out with for a year. The "main" ex was 24 years... Some things in the pattern were similar, of course, because we replay the same script in many ways, but definitely he isn't the same dog. Something more "square" - if he were a domestic dog, it's either a terrier (not Jack Russell, less nimble) or something like a staffie. But I don't feel he's a domestic dog. I can do this with my ex, just needs a bit of focus time. Maybe that will lead me closer to knowing this tradesman's animal.

I meant it about your website. It does help that we seem to be into the same kind of themes, fiction etc! But the site leads from one click to another, seductively; I could have spent the evening bouncing from link to link. I must do that one day, analyse it thoroughly and copy!

 

[Iaconagraphy]

I'm so glad you're enjoying my site so much! (I PM'ed you, btw!)

Okay, so I finally got my hands back on my Ted Andrews Animal Speak book (which is easily the BEST book ever on Totemic Relationships, so if you get a chance to grab yourself a copy, do!), and there is an entire chapter on Predator/Prey relationships, which I just went through and re-read for the first time in several years (I had actually forgotten it was in there, til you popped into my life!).

One of the keynotes of Predator/Prey relationships, according to Andrews, is "The Lesson of Responsible Relationships". The Predatory/Prey relationships is the ultimate expression of how everyone and everything (including relationships and interactions with other people) is interconnected. The entire food chain is a predatory transaction: plants manufacture food; grasshoppers eat the plants; birds eat the grasshoppers; man eats the birds, etc. Humans are at the top of the food chain, but that makes it even more important that we come to understand that our every human action is followed by a reaction from all other worlds--including other people. Sometimes those reactions are positive, and sometimes those reactions are negative, but we're supposed to work really hard to try to do things that keep those reactions more pro than con. Ultimately, the predator and prey relationship should teach humans responsibility for all of their actions.

Clearly, the dude you've been dealing with wasn't thinking about any of that, which leads me to wonder: maybe you are meant to be the predator here, instead of the other way around? Obviously, you're the "victim" of his irresponsibility and bad attitude (I put that in quotation marks because I legitimately loathe that word and hate casting anyone in the typical stereotype that goes along with it), but that doesn't mean you're necessarily the prey, when it comes to your totemic relationship with him, at least not according to Andrews (who generally knows his stuff).

My point: maybe the reason why you're having a hard time figuring out his animal is because you should be focusing on "weaker", "prey-type" animals for him, instead of predatory-gee-I-want-to-eat-you-alive-type animals? I never would've thought of taking it in the opposite direction without an Andrews refresher.....