The Book of the Law Study Group 2.34
Probie
Following 2.33 with the curse against Because/Reason for blocking Will, the Prophet reiterates a call to action - to Will - as concretely excercised through rituals and feasting from 2.35-44 followed by "death of the dogs" in 2.45 to book end what was taken up in 2.27-33.
Yygdrasilian
The Ride
"But ye, o my people, rise up & awake!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1RQmnSJoRg&feature=related
"But ye, o my people, rise up & awake!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1RQmnSJoRg&feature=related
Grigori
Another kundalini reference? Rise up, and awake 
Probie
I guess I need to say this because you can't hear it in my voice, I make my statements as tentative guesses.
I'm not definite on this stuff & when I do end saying something definite some person comes along and disappoints me by being wonderful & I've got to rethink the whole thing again!
So, is this verse (is that what it's called?) a call to action? What about "Because"? It seems like Reason & on one hand that's a good thing according to Thelema - it's scientific religion. But on the otherhand looking just befor here in 2.33 and before that, not so good.
So what do *YOU ALL* think is going on? I want to know what you all think!
I'm not definite on this stuff & when I do end saying something definite some person comes along and disappoints me by being wonderful & I've got to rethink the whole thing again!
So, is this verse (is that what it's called?) a call to action? What about "Because"? It seems like Reason & on one hand that's a good thing according to Thelema - it's scientific religion. But on the otherhand looking just befor here in 2.33 and before that, not so good.
So what do *YOU ALL* think is going on? I want to know what you all think!
Grigori
Probie said:I guess I need to say this because you can't hear it in my voice, I make my statements as tentative guesses.
I'm not definite on this stuff & when I do end saying something definite some person comes along and disappoints me by being wonderful & I've got to rethink the whole thing again!
The great thing with this study group, is whoever says they have the right answer is immediately testifying that they are the most wrong, as it misses the point. Whatever it means to you is correct for you, and what it means to someone else is irrelevant, unless they say something that appeals to you. So no-one is wrong, and we're all making guesses. I think its good to not think of these threads as learning the "real" meaning, instead they're about sharing ideas to inspire more ideas in each other
Probie said:
I'm understanding this as saying that reason is a tool of the ego, that it doesn't apply to true will. Science is all good and well as an approach to studying things at one level, but its not a good approach for every level.
Ah I like that, its the nifty solution to the old religion vs science debate. Use science when it serves, and put it away when it doesn't. Reminds me of the Jesus quote
Jesus said:
Reason seems to go with the ego, which is good for some stuff. Will is something higher and better for other things. That's what I think at least
thorhammer
It's like what Aeon said ages ago, about the ego (or reason/logic, I forget which) being a great servant but a very poor master.
*shrug* applies equally well to both.
\m/ Kat
*shrug* applies equally well to both.
\m/ Kat
ravenest
Probie said:I'm not definite on this stuff & when I do end saying something definite some person comes along and disappoints me by being wonderful & I've got to rethink the whole thing again!
Great isnt it. One way of looking at it is that you dont have to rethink the whole thing again ... just expand your perception field.
As I keep saying, here and there; the 'Sufis' say to begin to understand something properly one needs to look at it from 7 levels.
You know the story about the elephant in the dark? When we put all the viewpoints together (and it might be more than 7) we start to get a larger and more accurate picture.
A 7 - level planetary model could be used for example. Say, if we wanted to understand a book from the Mercury level we might choose a numerical analysis, and so on .
Probie
Grigori, Thorhammer, & Ravenest
This is what I like, we're all talking and adding and growing - well @ least it's working better for me.
To Grigori & Thorhammer: So true! Reason can be such a wonderful master and horrible slave to the point it turns the tables on you.
In my last class of my masters (just through - ugh!) I had to argue with the prof & was ignored by the students when I said this, "The scientific method [we're talking about formal research here] is like a screwdriver, great for tightening things up and dreadful for demolition. We need to consider other forms of knowledge too, like intuition and stop privileging this very male way of knowing."
While there's at least three macro categories of research, for most people it's just quantitative which can only confirm/deny theory, not create it. Hence it "tightens." The other two *could* form theory, but they get looked at funny (qualitative and pragmatic) with the exception of qualitiative and anthropology (i.e., sit with a tribe for years in a remote part of world, etc.).
Then with my direct service colleagues at work: "We need to pay attention to research as it can help our approach and increase results." Rock & hard place.
To Ravenest: Yes, I think you're right. It's expansion and not simply do over as the experience and prior knowledge doesn't go away. But rather it adds complexity.
For example the landlord I encountered recently. He was brash and almost arrogant on the phone. Then scared and fearful. Then in person bravado returned, but combined with amicable & collaborative to the point of wanting to work together more. Then when I interacted with his significant other, caring, respectful, and committed emerged as they spoke about their relationship. These are all complex facets of who he is. Some are blatantly contradictory, but yet it was all him.
Probably at least seven views of him!
This is what I like, we're all talking and adding and growing - well @ least it's working better for me.
To Grigori & Thorhammer: So true! Reason can be such a wonderful master and horrible slave to the point it turns the tables on you.
In my last class of my masters (just through - ugh!) I had to argue with the prof & was ignored by the students when I said this, "The scientific method [we're talking about formal research here] is like a screwdriver, great for tightening things up and dreadful for demolition. We need to consider other forms of knowledge too, like intuition and stop privileging this very male way of knowing."
While there's at least three macro categories of research, for most people it's just quantitative which can only confirm/deny theory, not create it. Hence it "tightens." The other two *could* form theory, but they get looked at funny (qualitative and pragmatic) with the exception of qualitiative and anthropology (i.e., sit with a tribe for years in a remote part of world, etc.).
Then with my direct service colleagues at work: "We need to pay attention to research as it can help our approach and increase results." Rock & hard place.
To Ravenest: Yes, I think you're right. It's expansion and not simply do over as the experience and prior knowledge doesn't go away. But rather it adds complexity.
For example the landlord I encountered recently. He was brash and almost arrogant on the phone. Then scared and fearful. Then in person bravado returned, but combined with amicable & collaborative to the point of wanting to work together more. Then when I interacted with his significant other, caring, respectful, and committed emerged as they spoke about their relationship. These are all complex facets of who he is. Some are blatantly contradictory, but yet it was all him.
Probably at least seven views of him!
Aeon418
Chapter 2 of Gunther's book is an extended comment on this verse.
