The Emperor's shield and the Sforza connection

[jmd]

Le_Pendu and I were discussing various historical possibilities, and I made mention of a book that I first referred to here in 2002, and which Ross Caldwell also wonderfully referred to in 2003:

De Sphaera

made for the young Sforza duke in the 15th century.

Seems like we all missed something of importance. As I was presenting bits and pieces of imagery, Le_Pendu jumped on one and asked if I had noticed the shields.

Well.... to be frank, I had in the past noted the Sforza emblem (snake swallowing that poor victim of the family's), but this time, as for Robert, what jumped out was the eagle's depiction.

A partial relevant image is here - look especially at the top central depiction, and then compare it to the Payen-Dodal depiction.

The similarity of depiction is striking... and one that may perhaps be worth further investigations and reflections.

 

[Grigori]

wanting to understand more...

May this affect the suggested date for the invention off the Marseille style tarots, or perhaps even the Ur tarot? Maybe even suggest that tarot is not much older than the known decks? Or am I missing the point...

Please say more!

 

[Sophie]

Wasn't this a common imperial image, which predates its associations with the Sforza, though it might have been adopted by them in order to give themselves noble weight they lacked in origin (and obtained with the Visconti marriage)?

The Visconti were long-term supporters of the Empire, I seem to remember, which might also explain the eagle and that shape. The Visconti, of course, are much older than the Visconti-Sforza deck

 

[Emeraldgirl]

Wasn't this a common imperial image, which predates its associations with the Sforza, though it might have been adopted by them in order to give themselves noble weight they lacked in origin (and obtained with the Visconti marriage)?

The Visconti were long-term supporters of the Empire, I seem to remember, which might also explain the eagle and that shape. The Visconti, of course, are much older than the Visconti-Sforza deck

I agree. My Italian history is very rusty but I understood it that the Sforza was a fighting lower class family as the last Visconti heiress married beneath her to create the new Visconti-Sfoza line. They were recognised as joint rulers of the duchy by the Holy Roman Emperor.

I have always associated the eagle as belonging to the Holy Roman Emperor/Hapsbourg House. The Spanish Hapsburgs and the French Royal house were fighting over the Italian states all through the 14th-16th centuries.

I've attached an copy of the Hapsburg emblem.

 

[jmd]

I am aware that the eagle precedes the Visconti family, and goes, in fact, right back to Roman times, as a symbol of the actual Roman emperor before the Church seeking to re-capture this by creating a 'Holy' Roman Emperor.

It was more that here is the 'standard' eagle, as also depicted on the Emperor card, in the Sforza book.

Perhaps not something to be surprised at, but a wonderfully pleasant and, I would have thought, important discovery.

 

[Emeraldgirl]

Well it adds a little more mystery for me . Why put the eagle on sheild as opposed to the Visconti-Sforza arms?

Compliment the Hapsburgs?
Political Message? (Spain over France)
Plain old fashioned eagle symbolism and power in relation to the Emperor?
All or none of the above?

 

[Huck]

A Milanese heraldic diagonal cross combination of eagles with visconti-snakes was common (2 eagles, 2 snakes), at least since Giangaleazzo's title as duke of Milan 1395.

Another heraldic diagonal cross combination of French Lilles with Visconti-Snakes existed for the shield of the duke of Orleans in 15th century. It presented the Orleans claim on the duchy of Milan, which was fulfilled in the year 1500, when the French king Louis XII., grandson of Valentina Visconti, conquered the city.