the snake man

[Sophie]

Another strange dream full of symbolism, which I can't entirely join together...I've been thinking about it all day.

I was sitting at a café table. Next to me was a man and his young son. The boy would run off to play then run back to his father's table, as children do. The man was dark, Indian looking, very thin with a pockmarked face. I felt slightly repulsed by by the pockmarks and the thinness. Then he turned to look at me, and I saw his eyes, very brilliant. He started to talk to me, and talk and talk - I can't remember what he said, but I know I relaxed and we sympathised, the repulsion I'd initially felt left me. As we spoke, his pockmarks gradually disappeared and he seemed to put on weight, and become wider.

Suddenly, he opened his mouth and out came a huge snake! It came full out, wound about him, then he sucked it back in. He said nothing while this was happening, and I just looked. It was surprising, fascinating - but after the first moment of disbelief, I felt strangely at home with that scene.

Afterwards, he continued talking. We got closer until we were kissing and cuddling. I asked him what had happened to the boy's mother, and he said: "she couldn't take the snake", and that they'd divorced when the boy was a year old. I woke up as we were about to make love (damn! ). By then, all the pockmarks on his face had disappeared, and his body was no longer painfully thin, but well filled out. His eyes were as brilliant as ever.



Now, obviously the snake has a lot of sexual overtones, and the dream went from sociable to erotic, but it's still a strange dream - what strikes me was this man's thinness and pockmarks that gradually disappeared; his care of his little boy; that snake that poured out of his mouth then back again. And how we got closer after the snake episode. Is it about change? About the unknown? He said about his ex-wife that she couldn't "take the snake", which to me means that she couldn't take change. Or maybe she couldn't take his difference - after all, it is arguably very off-putting to have a large snake that suddenly emerges from your husband's mouth every now and then.

But although I was aware of the strangeness of it (in the dream), I also remember taking it very much as "one of those things" - you know, people have their thing, and the snake was his. Normal in its strangeness. It was fascinating, but not off-putting or morbid.

I felt very energised upon waking from that dream, but also perplexed and not entirely at ease.

Any ideas?

 

[huredriel]

Hi Fudu,

One thought that popped straight into my mind on quickly reading through that, was of acceptance. As you got to know him, you saw to his inner self, therefore the trappings ceased to matter. A connection to soul, and possibly to your inner masculine?

As you know Snake is representative of many things, but also of kundalini energy ........ sounds like his was full flowing. Have you started experiencing more depth in this area?

And of course not forgetting, he could also be a snake charmer, who's words beguiled you

x Huredriel

 

[Milfoil]

The dream certainly does appear to be about acceptance and discovery doesn't it?

Another dream where 'brilliant eyes' are prominent. Clearly whatever this represents has not yet been fully understood. Eyes - windows of the soul, a brilliant, shining soul? Again the child is there but this time playing and coming back to Father occasionally. This suggests a more relaxed approach to the child within but still needing the odd reassurance.

The setting, a café, this is somewhere inbetween, a place which is neither home nor 'there' but a wayside place where we stop for rest and sustenance. Is your life in a 'wayside' place right now, neither here nor there quite yet?

The man - is he how you associate the typical 'guru' type, the one with inner strength, the one with incredible (obsessive) self control? Being repulsed by appearances, perhaps have come to a point in your life where what you thought was (unfortunately) true about the typical animus part of you is not as it seems and underneath, when you see past the mask, the true animus, the loving, aproachable, healthy animus is there. Of course I can also see the obvious corrolations to aspects of your private life too but since all things are connected, these metaphors usually have dozens of layers not unlike filo pastry!!

The snake! Whew. Well, lots of things spring to mind. As Huredriel says, snake tongued, snake charmer and similar are obvious 1st thoughts here along with temptation, the erotic and kundalini. Could it be that the gift of rhetoric sometimes takes on a life of its own, not always easily controlled either? Could it be a form of healing coming from recognising the true beauty and attraction to your animus?

Overall there seems to have been a change in energy somewhere in your life. A change in realisation or the need for such perhaps. If this is refering to a type of kundaliny energy, it seems to be misdirected. The energy which should go right up to the crown seems stalled at the throat and has to express itself there, perhaps thats why the original anima left, she, the feminine, couldn't cope with that.

The end of the dream sees you almost bringing the two sides together, the sacred marriage!

 

[Sophie]

Gosh, a lot to think about! Thanks Huredriel and Millie. I have work to do, it seems - just understanding, let alone integrating. Kundalini certainly seems to be there. But I often associate snakes with knowledge and transformation.

The man didn't come across as a typical guru (as in a sage master), but maybe a more modern-type guru, yes. One of those people who do a lot of motivational talking, like Anthony Robbins. After the initial repulsion to his physical appearance, I didn't get a bad impression from him, more a kind of strange fascination.

Did I see his inner self? It was his outer appearance that changed. When we become familiar with someone, their outer appearance ceases to matter, but it doesn't change; but in the dream, it actually changed completely. Or am I missing a symbol here?


The eyes struck me too. What do they mean? What am I missing? What am I not seeing - or else, what am I seeing that others are not?

It all seems rather bitty at the moment, like my life. In between is a good way of describing it, Millie. That's why I've been gardening so much - it helps to ground me.


I'm not sure what to do with the animus/anima references. I know of these concepts, of course, but not in any deep way, and not to work with. Do they even exist? Are they just social constructs?

Not sure of very much these days


Feeling low today - not sure how it's linked to that dream, which I had two night ago - but somehow it feels related. I had another very clear dream last night, but that one was about my beloved - he was sitting in a chair in front of a closed door, and we were talking. He was relaxed and at ease when we talked, very open, but as soon as I tried to get him to dance with me (we've always danced a lot), he began to shake in fear. His fear was so palpable, I can still feel it.

 

[Metafizzypop]

Hi Fudu. Your dream strikes me as being rather Jungian in nature. And since I'm a big fan of Carl Jung, I just thought I'd put in my 2 cents.

But I often associate snakes with knowledge and transformation.

In myth and religion, the snake is a classic symbol of knowledge, transformation, and wisdom. It was a snake that tempted Eve to eat the fruit of wisdom. Having a snake coming out of someone's mouth might just literally mean words of wisdom. It might symbolize someone communicating it to you in some way.

The man is the animus, I'm sure of it. This is a Jungian archetype. It is the masculine aspect of a woman, the same way the anima is the feminine aspect of a man. They are subconscious beings, but they make themselves known via dreams and art, usually. But they are mysterious, and like anything else that is unknown, might be frightening at first, which is why this man started off repulsive. But once you got to know him, he wasn't as repulsive any more. That's how it works with anything scary, I guess.

The child represents your relationship with the animus. It symbolizes that your relationship is still in an early stage, in its "childhood," so to speak. You and your animus have a lot of learning ahead of you.

The reason you need to get to know your animus probably has less to do with getting in touch with your masculine side than it does with developing your spiritual side. The animus can convey wisdom because he is the tour guide through the Collective Unconscious. This is what Joseph Campbell called the Mythic Dimension. It's where myth, religion, and art come from. The wisdom of the ages is contained there. That explains the snake. Also, the eyes are brilliant because virtually all of the symbolism takes a visual form. A tour through the Collective Unconscious is a visual experience. The animus will show you the sights.

The wife who left him might be you, years ago, in a state of mind that was not ready to handle the tour through the Collective Unconscious yet. In metaphysical terms his wife really is you. You are his partner.

You did not get to make love at the end because you are not ready yet. Actually, the important connections are made through spiritual pursuits. Sex is symbolism when it comes to the animus. You did not have sex because there is more work to do in the relationship.

I hope some of this made sense.

 

[Hephasteus]

I hate that when you have a dream and you talk and then it's like ok we now switch from being human and using language to being not human and using weird dense universal language.

Snake is our new reptilian brain which lies under our limbic system our emotional center which is wrapped by our neo cortex our higher reasoning center. It sounds like he has impulses of self destructive type behavior or something.

 

[Debra]

Hi Fudu. I wonder if the dreams are connected.

This is what I hear.

1. You meet a dark man who is so thin and barely there it is painful to look at him. He has holes in his face. He engages you with great intensity through his eyes. His child runs in and out of his life; he attends to the child but also to you. As you talk, something emerges from inside him and wraps around him like a rope. It is deeply foreign and yet somehow integral to him--something he takes for granted; he is comfortable with it. You accept it, too, and he appears normal when you do. He tells you that his wife could not accept this thing that is part of himself. You fall in love with him. As you are about to consummate your love, you wake up.

2. Your beloved is talking comfortably. You ask him to dance and his demeanor changes.

What is behind the closed door?

xxxDebra

 

[Sophie]

Thanks to all who answered. Still trying to figure it out, and you are helping

In myth and religion, the snake is a classic symbol of knowledge, transformation, and wisdom. It was a snake that tempted Eve to eat the fruit of wisdom. Having a snake coming out of someone's mouth might just literally mean words of wisdom. It might symbolize someone communicating it to you in some way.

That's interesting - I am familiar with the mythic aspect of snakes, but hadn't made the connection with "words of wisdom". Another mythic aspect of snakes is power and creation. So - words of power? But from whom? My animus? I can't remember a thing that man said to me or to his son, apart from telling me that his ex-wife couldn't take the snake, which came out very clearly. Or am I being told to pay attention to words of wisdom and power in my life right now? To recognise them?

The man is the animus, I'm sure of it. This is a Jungian archetype. It is the masculine aspect of a woman, the same way the anima is the feminine aspect of a man. They are subconscious beings, but they make themselves known via dreams and art, usually. But they are mysterious, and like anything else that is unknown, might be frightening at first, which is why this man started off repulsive. But once you got to know him, he wasn't as repulsive any more. That's how it works with anything scary, I guess.

The child represents your relationship with the animus. It symbolizes that your relationship is still in an early stage, in its "childhood," so to speak. You and your animus have a lot of learning ahead of you.

The reason you need to get to know your animus probably has less to do with getting in touch with your masculine side than it does with developing your spiritual side. The animus can convey wisdom because he is the tour guide through the Collective Unconscious. This is what Joseph Campbell called the Mythic Dimension. It's where myth, religion, and art come from. The wisdom of the ages is contained there. That explains the snake. Also, the eyes are brilliant because virtually all of the symbolism takes a visual form. A tour through the Collective Unconscious is a visual experience. The animus will show you the sights.

OK, that does make sense, as I am deepening my spiritual practice, and integrating more traditional practices. How does one get to "know" one's animus and "marry" him? (if these are the correct terms)?

The wife who left him might be you, years ago, in a state of mind that was not ready to handle the tour through the Collective Unconscious yet. In metaphysical terms his wife really is you. You are his partner.

Well, I have studied a lot of myth and symbolism over the last 20+ years, but I'm not sure how much of it I integrated, beyond the intellect or the emotional response - both of which are important dimensions, but not the only ones possible, I think: I am not sure. Isn't everything of value filtered through our human emotions and intellect?

You did not have sex because there is more work to do in the relationship.

And that is done via spiritual practice?

I hate that when you have a dream and you talk and then it's like ok we now switch from being human and using language to being not human and using weird dense universal language.

I find it rather fun, actually - it can only happen in dreams and shamanic types of experiences - makes a change from everyday ordinary misunderstandings through language!

Snake is our new reptilian brain which lies under our limbic system our emotional center which is wrapped by our neo cortex our higher reasoning center.

Well, that would make sense, given that reptiles seem to be among our long-ago ancestors. Though why "new"? Isn't it very ancient?

It sounds like he has impulses of self destructive type behavior or something.

I don't understand that. I saw no destruction or self-destruction: the snake slid out of the man's mouth, wound himself round him - looking at me too, as the man was - then the man sucked the snake back in, and that was it. Although it was a strange scene, it was also innoffensive, and didn't leave me with a sense of damage.

Hi Fudu. I wonder if the dreams are connected.

Yes, I had that feeling too - but I just don't know how! I might be too close.

1. You meet a dark man who is so thin and barely there it is painful to look at him. He has holes in his face. He engages you with great intensity through his eyes. His child runs in and out of his life; he attends to the child but also to you. As you talk, something emerges from inside him and wraps around him like a rope. It is deeply foreign and yet somehow integral to him--something he takes for granted; he is comfortable with it. You accept it, too, and he appears normal when you do. He tells you that his wife could not accept this thing that is part of himself. You fall in love with him. As you are about to consummate your love, you wake up.

That's a good summary. Although that "something" was definitely a snake, it was foreign, yet seemed totally part of him - as much as his child was - and didn't shock me. I was far more bothered by the pockmarks! (and they disappeared the more I got to know him).

2. Your beloved is talking comfortably. You ask him to dance and his demeanor changes.

Yes, totally, and it changed to fear. Not just ordinary fear - I mean thick irrational fear, terror, the kind that makes people sweat and shake and lose their powers of action and reasoning. In the dream, I remember feeling despair when confronted by that fear of his, as I could not reach him through it. But I felt it very strongly. As soon as we went back to talking, his fear receded, and when I suggested again that we dance, the fear returned. When we were talking I asked him about it, but he couldn't explain it. The explanation seemed - hollow - when compared with the intensity of the fear.

What is behind the closed door?

That which was causing his fear.



But how are these dreams connected? That's what I am trying to figure out. I'll leave it for a while - hopefully something will come to me.

ETA: in that second dream, I had a strong sense that I was meant to help him overcome his fear - but I had no idea and no guidance on how to do it, which left me feeling frustrated and adrift. I'm wondering if that first dream with the snake isn't some sort of guidance (feeling my way around here... or maybe clutching at straws )



Thank you again

 

[Metafizzypop]

I am familiar with the mythic aspect of snakes, but hadn't made the connection with "words of wisdom". Another mythic aspect of snakes is power and creation. So - words of power? But from whom? My animus? I can't remember a thing that man said to me or to his son, apart from telling me that his ex-wife couldn't take the snake, which came out very clearly. Or am I being told to pay attention to words of wisdom and power in my life right now? To recognise them?

I think the main thing that you are being asked to recognise is just that the animus is trying to communicate with you. That's why the symbolism in the dream involved his mouth. It's not words in the literal sense that are important, it's the communicating of wisdom, any way it happens, from him.

How does one get to "know" one's animus and "marry" him? (if these are the correct terms)?

They're correct enough. And the best thing you can do is probably a tarot card reading. Tarot is a terrific tool for this kind of thing. You can take any number of spreads, a Celtic Cross, for example, and ask a question like, "What is my animus trying to tell me?" Or, "What does he want me to know?" Whatever you feel is appropriate. And you can see how things go from there.

And that is done via spiritual practice?

Yes. The animus doesn't have a choice, poor dear.

 

[Hephasteus]

Well, that would make sense, given that reptiles seem to be among our long-ago ancestors. Though why "new"? Isn't it very ancient?

I don't understand that. I saw no destruction or self-destruction: the snake slid out of the man's mouth, wound himself round him - looking at me too, as the man was - then the man sucked the snake back in, and that was it. Although it was a strange scene, it was also innoffensive, and didn't leave me with a sense of damage.

Well it's the way our cancer aspects work along with our pluto. It's hard to explain but our pluto and cancer can sometimes dig into another persons energy and you find something hidden in there and don't know quite what it is. Most people will say something offensive or rile the other person up to see if they are defending that energy. It's not a very sensitive approach but not having the experience to deal with it theres no other way people can gain the experience.

Let me give you an example. I was at college sitting at a table with 4 people and i kept getting this urge surrounding attics. I finally half worked it into the conversation saying something offensive like that would be like living in an attic. And a girl at the table said she lived in an attic. Her parents redid the attic as a room. Not knowing what it was about or why that energy kept coming up I said something offensive about it to try to locate it. That would be considered a snake strike. You often find people with strong moon or cancer aspects doing this very thing. They will say something offensive over a an insecurity or hidden aspect of a person. They don't mean to be mean or harmful but they just don't know any other way to approach it.
So not really saying that he is self destructive just saying that he maybe doesn't have the skill and sensitivity to approach some things he's subjected to in a way without it spinning off into something wrong. The more secure a person feels and the better they are at understanding what these hurts are about the better they are able to deal with it. The more previous experience the person has with the other person and the more trust built up the less likely bringing these things to the surface will turn into a self defensiveness fight.

Sorry misunderstanding. Thought the snake bit him on the face before he went back into this mouth. But the information about the snake is still relevant.