The Electional Astrology of Pope Gregory XIII

Hi Everyone,
This is a difficult thread for me, please understand that i dont wish to offend any religious readers, and the basis of this thread is astrological study, which is obviously effected by The Gregorian Calendar.
Our Value of 365 days comes from the ancient Egyptians and how they calcalated the year, which was when the great fixed star Sirius rose in paran with the Sun on the Asc. Five thousands of years ago in Egypt.
The Roman calendar was hopeless, and Julius Caesar employed a brilliant student from the Library of Alexandria, Sosigenes, to calcalate the exact length of a year.
It would seem that the 1st Jan came from Caesar, which made it easier to collect taxes, but whatever the argument 1st Jan become the first day of the New Year when the Julian Calendar was introduced in 0046 BC.
Obviously Sosigenes was heavily influenced by the skills of the Egyptians but remained a mathematician, and as far as i can see wasn't influenced by Egyptian beliefs by starting the Julian Calendar with any connection to Sirius on an angle in 0046 BC.
Obviously in 0046 BC., the time of noon or Midnight was regulated by sun dial method, so noon or midnight was the same anywhere in the world, because we didnt have time zones, other than the next town to where you are located would experience noon or midnight at a slightly different time as the Sun would have to be on the M.C. or I.C. angle.
So if we looked at a chart for 0046 BC., on the first of Jan at time of 00:00, the M.C./I.C. would be 06*48' Cancer/Capricorn, so Sosigenes wasn't influenced by Egyptian beliefs, and didnt start the new calendar with any connection with the Isis star Sirius on an angle as it was at 16* Gemini at the time!
When we made the Julian Calendar accurate was in 1582, decreed by Pope Gregory XIII. There had been arguments that had been going on for centuries over the Julian Calendar, especially in religious circles as calcalations for Easter were becoming difficult, the Equinox's were out, and by 1582 the accrued differences had amounted to 10 days, as the Julian Calendar wasn't Accurate....the Venerable Bede had noted discrepances between the calendar and seasons as early as the 10th century.
SO THE BIG QUESTION IS WHY WAIT TO 1582 TO PUT IT RIGHT?
If you set up a chart for 1 Jan 1583 for the time of 00:00, Rome, Italy, being the first New Year in the Gregorian Calendar, you will find at the stroke of mid-night bringing in the New Year, that Sirius, the Isis star is 00*44' off the M.C. by projected fixed stars, which continues to be on the M.C. within a degree continually at the stroke of mid-night at New Year till 1703!
There are plenty of myths and legends on our most brilliant fixed star Sirius, yet intentionally calcalating Sirius on the M.C. at the beginning of a calender seems to look towards Egyptian beliefs!
I hesitate to mention that Pope Gregory XIII died in 1585, and was succeeded by Pope Sixtus V, who in 1586 moved an Egyptian Obelisk to the centre of St. Peter's Square, outside the Vatican.
Pope Gregory XIII decreed that the day after 4th October 1582 would be 15th October 1582, thus correcting the old Julian calendar in line with the Gregorian New Year starting on 1st Jan 1583, rectifying the 10 day difference.
WHY WAS 4th OCTOBER 1582 USED?
Some of you will have Solar Fire V5 astrology software, which has fixed star parans, so you can check my research.
The last minute of the Julian calendar was 23:59pm. on Thursday 4th Oct. 1582, Rome Italy, and at that time you will find Sirius rising by PARANS on the Asc., star on angle at moment!
So Pope Gregory XIII obviously had beliefs connected to Sirius, and was involved in complex electional astrology.
It would seem that he wanted to end the Julian Calendar with Sirius in paran with the Asc. and start the New Gregorian Year with Sirius conjunct the M.C. by projected fixed stars!
There is one other way to look for electional astrology....was Sirius on the M.C. for a continued period before New Year 1583?
Now all astrology programmes can work differently, but as there is a ten day difference, if you want to check you may have to look how your astrology software works, but generally it should be 22nd Dec. to find the the difference before the Gregorian calendar New Year at 00:00 time.
Sirius is on the M.C. for only some years, on 22 Dec., being 1579, 1578, 1575,
1574, 1571, 1570, 1567, 1566, 1563, 1562, 1559, 1558, 1555, 1554, 1551, and 1550.
Before this we only find Sirius on the M.C. every four years, being 1547, 1543, 1539, 1535, 1531, 1527, 1532, and the first year within a degree being 1519, which is the same process which happens after 1703.
So before 1582, Sirius was slowly getting in line, but after 1582 we find Sirius on the M.C. every New Year till 1703, so Pope Gregory changed from the Julian to the Gregorian calendar exactly within the time frame when Sirius would continually be on the M.C. for every year!
The odds of this happening by chance are impossible....any comments?
Please remember this research is for astrologers, i hope that i dont upset any religious readers!

Lets see if I can answer your question about Why wait until 1582 to put it right ?
Pope Gregory took the name Gregory in respect of the earlier Pope Gregory the 1st (or Saint Gregory the Great). One of the things the first Gregory was famous for was the debate between Eastern and Western Christianity about the Resurection (Easter). Gregory wanted to be a great reformer like the First Gregory. At the time of his Election the West- namly England and Ireland etc used the Eastern dating for Easter as in Eastern Christianity. Also in Gregory X111 history was that he was a delegate at the Council of Trent the last Coucil of Catholics that started with the Council of Nicea which this Easter dating and Resurrection subject had started. (things move slow eh?) So you could say he had a special Interest in it all.
So in the East Easter is celebrated somewhere between March to April; In the West from April to May to follow the Council's decision to seperate Easter from the Jewish Passover.
Now Gregory had this passion for reform- he named himself after Gregory 1st- he had a personal friend, a Jesuit Priest and Astronomer called Clavius- who could set the date according to Sirius rising- the vernal Equinox and then show supremacy over Eastern Church. All Popes look back at their Heroes and take on a cause and issue Bulls and treatises. I know quite a lot about Catholic History- but very little about Astrology. I can be quite sure that it was all about a firm dating for Easter and not about the Star Sirius in a Pagan sense, but the symbol was there a Great Star is Rising! Egyptian mystery schools at the time was studied in the theological schools~Rosanne

I should also add that Gregory became Pope in 1572- Clavius was given the Job officially in 1579 and it was on Gregory's 10th Anniversary the Bull was enacted. It was probably orchestrated for that date in a symbolic way. Clavius was very interested in fixed stars and would have known how and when it was going to appear on the Calendar (Sirius)- Gregory was a huge supporter of the Jesuits and it would have been discussed as the most symbolic time to do it. ~Rosanne

Intentional?

The problem I see with your theory is this: (1) is there any evidence that the style of paran work that you can do in Solar Fire was being done in Gregory's day (there is not), and (2) is there any evidence that the electional astrologers of Gregory's day would have recognized this as either a valid or important electional consideration (there is not).

Of course, intentionality doesn't speak to whether there is an interesting Sirius connection to calendar reform.

If you want to research history, **it is extremely dangerous** to assume that because you can find an astrological configuration, that therefore it was elected or intentional. For the time period, there is adequate documentation of the methodologies used. You *must* demonstrate that the method was known and used for this to be plausible. One other factor I should mention is that if you examine the ephemerides of the time, you will see some significant discrepencies with modern calculations, which thereby raises the question of whether contemporaries would even have been able to come to the "right" conclusion about the configuration. Yet one more factor that would need to be checked.

Rosanne said:

I know quite a lot about Catholic History- but very little about Astrology.

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PLease note I qualified by statement above. I have no idea what you are talking about astrologically. Was what happened Intentional? Well it had taken 978 years to get it to that stage from the Council of Nicea- it seems pretty intentional to me- but I have no idea how much people like Clavious and Gallileo knew- they certainly had some idea of the Egyptian knowledge of Astronomy. It seems strangely co -incidental -the choice to follow this theme in both name and Papal Bull if it was an accidental thing- but that is your field of expertise- not mine. ~Rosanne

This thread isnt about dragging up dirt about Catholics, i'm fully aware of "The Council of Trent" and the history of our calendar, i am very worried by electional astrology involving calendars that effect us today, in fact soon i will show electional mundane astrology when England and the dominions, which includes U.S.A adopted the Gregorian Calendar, there are some very good astrologers on this forum that dont yet want to get involved but would have checked my calcalations.....you dont see any astrologers saying these calcalations are wrong, do you!
Hold up for a while, i understand this is explosive material, and please believe that i wouldnt write this thread if it wasnt very very important to events that are happening now.
I am a liberal christian, and understand that we cannot judge what happened 4 hundred years ago, so as you are not an astrologer please hold up for a while.
Astrologers know the rate of progression of a fixed star and how long it would take for Sirius to arrive back in the platonic year to where it was in 1582, honestly we are talking of tens of thousands of years!
First off obviously astrology has been studied for thousands of years, Parans were used by ancient Egyptians so that is as long as astrology that we know about has been used...you are looking at at least five thousand years!
I really want to get off talking about Pope Gregory, and show other connections not in any way connected to the Catholic faith which i value.
Pope Marcelius II, Born Marcello Cervini Degli Spannochi was the son of Richardo Cervini who was the Apostolic Treasurer in Ancona.....He also had an interest in Astrology and upon discovering that his son's horoscope presaged high ecclesiastic honours, he set the young Cervini on the path to priesthood....it would be very strange if some of his fathers views hadnt made an impression on Marcello.
During the Council of Trent he was elected one of the three presidents...after the death of Pope Julius III in 1555, he was elected Pope.
There is still an ancient remnant of the ancient Egyptian Calendar, that is Christian/Egyptian called the Coptic Calender...Please look up on the web.
The New year, now hasnt any connection to the heliacal rising of Sirius on an angle, but is called "The First of Tout", which is 11th September.
The original heirogliph for Sirius was a five pointed star, which also can be shown as a Pentagon.
The ground breaking ceremony of the "Pentagon" was 11th September 1941, so as you can see i'm investigating a Sirius connection that seems to underpin all religions.
Calendar experts will tell you we celebrated the Millennium on the wrong date, it should have been celebrated at Midnight between 31st Dec. 2000 and 1st Jan 2001.
There could be religious symbolism, as we would think if 9/11 happened on 1st Jan 2000. In fact if we followed the Coptic Calender, as a lot of people do, then the Millennium would have been 11th September 2001....ring a bell?
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England and the dominions (including U.S.A.), adopted the Gregorian Calendar much later in 1752. The 2nd September 1752 was followed by 14th Sept.
So again my interest would be 23:59pm on 13th September.

Now lets look when the Gregorian calender came in, which is 00:00am. on 14 Sept. 1752, London U.K.
Alnilam is rising in Paran with the Asc., star on angle at moment.
Alnitak, Alnilam, and Mintaka are the three major stars in the Belt of Orion, Alnilam is the middle star.
In Egyptian Mythology Orion was the home of Osiris, the Egyptian God who was killed by his brother Set.
While Osiris dwelled in Orion, his sister and wife Isis dwelled in Sirius, the brightest star in the sky.

The monk said:

This thread isnt about dragging up dirt about Catholics,

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Who was?

you dont see any astrologers saying these calcalations are wrong, do you!

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Historians do not say my dreams about Phoenicians and Tarot are wrong either- they are exceeding polite, but I often detect scepticism

Hold up for a while, i understand this is explosive material, and please believe that i wouldnt write this thread if it wasnt very very important to events that are happening now.

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You know it occurred to me that every disaster and attack in our known history- something was in junction with something else or at angles to something else in the wonderful sky above.

I really want to get off talking about Pope Gregory,

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Which Pope Gregory?

There is still an ancient remnant of the ancient Egyptian Calendar, that is Christian/Egyptian called the Coptic Calender...Please look up on the web.

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I presume Osama uses this one?

Alnilam is rising in Paran with the Asc., star on angle at moment.
Alnitak, Alnilam, and Mintaka are the three major stars in the Belt of Orion, Alnilam is the middle star.
In Egyptian Mythology Orion was the home of Osiris, the Egyptian God who was killed by his brother Set.
While Osiris dwelled in Orion, his sister and wife Isis dwelled in Sirius, the brightest star in the sky.

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As you have not thought to tell us on this open forum, what you think will happen when everything gets in at the right angles- I will delay sending my family to the Auckland Islands to live in splendid isolation. I hope you get the confirmation you are seeking and I await the result. I hope they do not hold off and post as I did, regardless of your request. Sirius is my favourite Star- but that is another story for another time. ~Rosanne

Although the concept of Parans is certainly ancient, and had a function in calendrical and navigational computations, I am not sure how much they were in used in traditional [of the medieval / renaissance period] western astrology, at least not as in the manner they are modernly used or computated in programs such as solar fire. The solar fire is based upon or is an adaption of these ancient usages, based up the work of for example the work of Brady and Hand in making available these sources from ancient texts; primarily Ptolemies 'phases of the stars' which describes the parans in relation to weather patterns, and an anonymous 4th century ad Greek text on the fixed stars; however, while these were available in Greek and I think possibly Arabic texts I don't know whether either of these were ever made available to the middle ages, renaissance west through being translated into latin.

However, the use of the fixed stars was certainly used in traditional electional astrology, a conjunction of the angles with a fixed star considered especially important for any project that was meant to have long standing permanence. According to Agrippa, describing its talismanic use [talismans would have been prepared according to the rules of electional astrology] "Under the Greater Dog Star, they made an image of an hound and a little virgin; it bestoweth honour and good will, and the favor of men, and aerial spirits, and giveth the power to pacify and reconcile kings, princes, and other men." Three Books of Occult Philosophy Bk. II, Chapter 47:

http://www.esotericarchives.com/agrippa/agripp2d.htm#chap47

Kwaw

Hi Kwaw,
Its good to talk to an astrologer, although my beginnings was as a member of "The London College of Psychic Studies".
Firstly i want to look at some comments that have already been made....
On 11th September, the leader of the terrorists was Mohammed Atta who was an Egyptian, who would certainly know his own calendar, perhaps someone would like to look up when Egypt adopted its constitution, you will find that it is 11th Sept. 1971, so that answers that question.
2) The feast of Neyrous marks the first day of the coptic calendar, also known as "Anno Martyrum....Year of the martyrs.
3)Use a search engine and tap in "bbc egypt's golden millennium"
You will find a report that Egypt planned to place a golden cap stone on Cheops pyramid at the stroke of midnight at the Millennium, as Cheops is just outside Cairo, perhaps someone would like to set up a chart for Cairo at 00:00am, the 1st Jan 2001, where you will find Sirius in Paran with the M.C., with Sun in opposition, while you are at it, set up a chart for New York as well, and see where Sirius is by parans, it is on the M.C. in our era every New Year at midnight.
The celebrations was stopped at Cheops Pyramid because other Arab states put pressure on Egypt, as it was felt that this too closely tied in with American symbolism, such as the Pyramid on the dollar, amongst other symbolism.
Again i'm liberal with religion, all regilion is fine as long as it follows non aggressive attitudes.
The Fact that the Coptic Calendar has been followed for many millenniums shows that "parans" where known about, as the Heliacal rising of Sirius with the Sun obviously is a paran.
The Library at Alexandria is of great sadness to all involved with mystical arts, as it was burned down in the early centuries AD, by who we are not sure.
But it was one of the wonders of the ancient world, housing all the books, scrolls, and history from the dawn of human civilisations.
Even by 200 AD Clement of Alexandria still made reference to a catalogue of Egyptian books which contained in thirty six works, the entire philosophy of the Egyptians.
Amoung them were eight books dealing with knowledge of what were called "Hieroglyphics" and included cosmography, and all the secrets of the priest/astronomers....all this went up in smoke!
i tend to be wary of electional astrology, because we dont know every thing.
We look at the birth time of a country when we look for future events, and so looking at our calendar can be very useful.
I research a lot of ground, and have found proof of one single object that is in position through both world wars at critical times, at 9/11, the London attack, the attack in Sharm el Shiekh, the Beslan school massacre, the first attack on the World Trade Centre, that happened on Friday 26th Feb 1993, that have been well researched, amongst other events.
Fixed stars such as Sirius need careful research.
I only mentioned Solar Fire as it used by a lot of professionals, but i do all my fixed star work is on "Brady's starlight astrology programme"
Lets look at the approx. 33* degree latitude, where between 1943 and 1947 Pluto was involved in the heliacal rising of Sirius, in 1945 in late June and early August the combination of stars and planets was Sirius, Achernar and Pluto. On August 6th Horoshima was bombed followed by Nagasaki, slightly lower latitude.
Electional astrology when put in our calendar is all very well, but we are all human and can miss or not know about certain factors, that sometimes can hit you a long time after.

Historically dubious

The monk said:

I only mentioned Solar Fire as it used by a lot of professionals, but i do all my fixed star work is on "Brady's starlight astrology programme"

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And this is perhaps the problem. Bernadette's program (and her book about the fixed stars) re-launches the method of working with the stars found in Anonymous of 379. The issue is that this method was abandoned in astrological usage during the Medieval period and not really resurrected again until Bernadette. Furthermore, the positions as given in Starlight don’t jive with those in Solar Fire, because the two programmers simply didn’t implement their parans in the same way.

My point is simple: you’ve found a lot of interesting correlations. But you have presented *NOTHING* in the way of evidence that contemporary astrologers could have or would have seen these correlations. End of story.