Anyone have a complete list of the Air/Fire swapped decks?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 09 Nov 2001, and now archived in the Forum Library.

marichan	09 Nov 2001
As someone with a preference for swords=air, wands=fire, I was wondering if anyone has a list of the decks that swap the elements? Perhaps we can make a list together? If I find more I'll add them. Decks where swords=fire, and wands=air: Art Nouveau Tarot Legend: The Arthurian Tarot ^ Renaissance * Shapeshifter * Witches Tarot * Celtic Dragon * Nigel Jackson Tarot ** *= Thanks Nexy! **= Thanks Lee! ^= Thanks CN!

nexyjo	09 Nov 2001
i have a grid on my website that lists correspondances (among other things) for the various decks i own. you may wanna check that out. luv and light, nexy

marichan	09 Nov 2001
Quote: nexyjo (10 Nov, 2001 03:57): i have a grid on my website that lists correspondances (among other things) for the various decks i own. you may wanna check that out. luv and light, nexy Thank you! I added the decks you listed to my list above (hope you don't mind!) BTW, it was my first visit to your site, and a highly enjoyable one at that. Loved the moon art behind your sofa and the butterfly tree. :-)

Lee	09 Nov 2001
Here's one: Nigel Jackson Tarot -- Lee

C.N.	10 Nov 2001
There is an error in your list: The Arthurian Tarot (aka Hallowquest) has NOT swapped elements. Legend: The Arthurian Tarot has swapped elements. Best wishes, C.N.

truthsayer	11 Nov 2001
as much as i like the legend arthurian and art noveau, it's hard to believe i missed that air and fire are swapped on them. i had an almost instant rapport w/ them. however, i noticed this immediately on the dj conway decks shapeshifter and celtic dragon. i never jelled w/ either deck. perhaps i need to re-evaluate my fire/air theory. it may not make as much difference as i thought. i'm glad i have today to explore this!!!!!!!!!! :) thanks for bringing this up!

Kaz	11 Nov 2001
As you bring up this topic about swapping suits and elements, I wonder WHY ppl choose wands for fire and swords for air (or vice versa). After all, cards listen to your subconcious, so it shouldn't really matter. Just as long as you know what is what you will be ok in reading them. What is the reason for you to choose that specific element with that suit? (This question maybe belongs on another forum, if so, moderator please move it there.) Kaz

C.N.	12 Nov 2001
Quote: Kaz (12 Nov, 2001 06:08): As you bring up this topic about swapping suits and elements, I wonder WHY ppl choose wands for fire and swords for air (or vice versa). After all, cards listen to your subconcious, so it shouldn't really matter. Just as long as you know what is what you will be ok in reading them. What is the reason for you to choose that specific element with that suit? Kaz Because the images of the minors are based of its corresponding element: Suit - Element - Part of Being - Feeling Wands - Fire - Soul (Yang-part) - Courage Cups - Water - Soul (Yin-part) - Love Swords - Air - Mind - Fear Pentacles (Coins) - Earth - Body - Security/Satisfaction??? So if the elements are swapped then the images will also need to be swapped. Blessed Be, C.N.

jmd	12 Nov 2001
In case you're interested in another correlation altogether, the Spanish 'Grand Esoterico' (I'll check the spelling when I have access to my decks) has CUPS with Air!

Freddie	12 Nov 2001
Which tarot writer started the idea that wands are air? After reading this thread I remember that when I first started tarot I learned that wands were fire, but some where along the line I picked up the idea that wands are air and it stuck. I leafed through Waite's "P.K.To.T.TAROT" and couldn't find his take on the element of wands. His descpriton of the suit matches fire or seems to. Who changed the wand suit element to air? Waite? Crowley? Papus? or someone else? Thanks, Freddie P.S.: Wands are fire to me again. It just makes good sense to me, esp. when a person reads vintage decks with big batons/clubs (wood and fire go together) instead of thin wands.

Kaz	12 Nov 2001
Hmmm, yes I get the idea, BUT....( I hate yes buts) I don't go for the "somebody tells me " thing, I want to decide for myself. That's why I asked what are YOUR reasons to choose wands/fire swords/ air etc. It might be that your reason is ppl told you and you accepted it, np. What do the elements stand for and why you put that suit with it? I don't have much time now, so I will post my reasons later to start off with, coz I think it can be an interesting discussion. Kaz

Kaz	12 Nov 2001
To be continued on forum "tarot cards" Kaz

jmd	13 Nov 2001
My previous spelling of the deck was incorrect. The deck is published by Fournier (in Spain) and called El Gran Tarot Esoterico (translation on deck as 'The Great Esoteric Tarot'). As I mentioned above, CUPS is AIR. In case you are interested in the other associations, SWORDS is WATER, Pentacles is Earth and Wands Fire. This shows that the various traditions vary even more than the more common swords air or fire question... If the sharpness of the edge of the blade is what is at stake, than this seems to indicate sharpness of mind, and hence air. On the other hand, a branch (wand) grows in the air, but a sword has to be extracted from the earth and forged in fire, without which it would not exist. As a staff, this seems to indicate more the assistance needed of an old wise person, and hence again possibly air, whereas the youthful passions also necessary in the wielding of a sword also seems to associate it with fire. I mention this, though I usually prefer to use wands with fire and daggers with air.... and staffs with air and swords with fire!!!

The Anyone have a complete list of the Air/Fire swapped decks? thread was originally posted on 09 Nov 2001 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.