Bosch Deck

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 05 Jun 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Pollux	05 Jun 2002
Anyone got it? What do you think? I had a quick look (number 7 in my collection I think! ;)). I love Majors, and I definitely think I will read them sooner or later. Minors are a bit vonsufing, and actually too similar. Soon I'll come back for more. JUST OST YOURS!!! Gotta go now! :(

Jewel	05 Jun 2002
I have this deck Pollux. It was an impulse buy that to date I am not sure how I feel about. I love the colors and tonal ranges used. The deck is most definetly interesting, but there are several cards that just really really really bother me (an experience which I seldom have). It is not a matter of meditating on them, I just flat out do not like them. I am thinking of reading up on Bosch, and learning more about his art before I make a final decision to keep or trade this deck.

Scorpion	05 Jun 2002
Hi, Pollux - good to have you back! I see you're already back in the swing of things, eyeing up new decks for your collection!!! Yes, I've got this deck - and I love it! I don't find the Minors confusing - in fact, it's one of the few decks where I find the LWB is a lot of help: it's full of what seem to be short, pithy sayings that relate perfectly to the cards. The cards are very sympathetic to the original artwork. I hadn't studied Bosch's work at all before falling for the deck (I am ashamed to say I mistook some of his work for Dali's - and I do know something about the latter!) but after much hunting I eventually found a book which fell between a chapter squashed into a history of art and the full caboodle with enormous prints, little text but ridiculous pricetag, and it's been worth its weight in gold. I'd say definitely - GO FOR IT!

Kaz	05 Jun 2002
i posted i a thread about this deck months ago, it had some historical links and so, i will try to find it again and edit this post. kaz

Pollux	05 Jun 2002
Oh KAZ!!! Maybe the moderator will help me... PLEASE LEE!!! ;) I have had the luck to see some Bosch. Also went to the Prado, and I must say that the only paintings I really enjoyed down there were his. The Garden is ASTONISHING!!! Just love it. There's a special feeling with the Majors. I can't exaplin very well (only a couple of hours passed from the first post!), but there is a sort of visceral clicking. I think they have a wonderful atmosphere. Especially that Empress, and the High Priest, and the Moon!!! LOVE THEM!!! I do want to read it!!! But I wonder who would accept a reading with such a deck! Maybe I could try the Reading Exchange... I don't have the LWB. It's a particualr edition... Can't sort it out... WHO CARES! :D But I'd love to read more specific stuff, and those historical stuff... Maybe I might dare search too...

Lee	05 Jun 2002
Here are the previous Bosch threads: Click here and here and here. Have fun! :) -- Lee

catlin	06 Jun 2002
I traded 2 copies of the Bosch deck but it is still not in my collection as I do not like the artwork of Bosch.

Zhritza	07 Jun 2002
I nearly got this deck in a trade once, but decided against it -- for the time being. There is no way on earth that I could use it effectively, and the voice in my head that says "You can't read with that" is the only weapon I have for holding my rampant collecting in check. Not that I wouldn't love to have it just to look at occasionally...

Scorpion	07 Jun 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Jewel there are several cards that just really really really bother me ... I just flat out do not like them. Hi, Jewel! I can understand that - but thought I'd just share a reading with it with you. I had 5 cards and 20 minutes and had never met the woman before. So, if you'd like to lay, from left to right, the Queen of Pentacles, 2 Swords, 10 Swords, the Queen of Swords and the King of Pentacles - that's the story! Just look at the way the Queen of Swords relates to the King of Pentacles in this deck - can't think of any other deck where this would happen but it says it all!!!

Pollux	07 Jun 2002
Let me work that out... OOPS! I can't see... The problem is courts and pipes are so... all alike! I can't feel much of the traditional meaning, and, despite the fact that the artwork rocks (I really adore it), it is so difficult for me to get something out of the cards and let myself be inspired by the images! What I see: this woman had a sort of affair, she knew it was probably al lof her making... but she wanted to keep it going all the same. Then she reached the point that she could not take it any more, wielded her sword, and sent this man to h**l. Probably they were sharing a house? some properties? OH MY GOD!!! WHAT DID I DO!!!??? *LOL* Most of it was on the spur of the moment... HEY! Maye I can read this cards after all! Who knows... Need some more study!

Jewel	07 Jun 2002
Quote: Originally posted by LouiQ I can understand that - but thought I'd just share a reading with it with you. Thansk LouiQ, I will look at that and see how it feels. Thanks for sharing and encouraging me to explore this deck a little further. :)

Scorpion	08 Jun 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Pollux Let me work that out... What I see: this woman had a sort of affair, she knew it was probably al lof her making... but she wanted to keep it going all the same. Then she reached the point that she could not take it any more, wielded her sword, and sent this man to h**l. Probably they were sharing a house? some properties? Near enough! Basically, the querent was normally the nice relaxed luxury-loving Queen of Pentacles and the King of Pentacles was her husband. However, recent events (2 and 10 Swords) had turned her into the Queen of Swords, wildly swinging her weapon (she admitted she could cheerfully have chopped his head off at times!). I think the Bosch is the only deck I've got that would have shown it so graphically. I don't think the scans do the deck justice - the delicacy of the colours and the detail of the artwork are exquisite. C'mon Pollux - you need this deck in your hands to truly appreciate it!

Scorpion	08 Jun 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Jewel Thansk LouiQ, I will look at that and see how it feels. Thanks for sharing and encouraging me to explore this deck a little further. :) Keep me posted Jewel - I think this deck really does bear sticking with. As I take a selection of decks with me for clients to choose from I'm aware not everybody is going to select it, but I think it will reward those who do.

Pollux	08 Jun 2002
Originally posted by LouiQ : C'mon Pollux - you need this deck in your hands to truly appreciate it! I suspect you think I am dubious whether to get it or not... WRONG!!! I have the Deck already! *LOL* :D I just started this thread for curiosity, cos I wanted to know if other people liked it as much as I do. The artwork is quite magnificent. And those majors! They have something special. For example, even though the lady of the Empress looks like a nun, I don't know why but I get this feeling of frustrated "feminine creativity", sterility in a way (do you understand what I mean?)... Yet, the way it is painted makes me jump to the Archetype of the Empress straight away. As if the "distorsion" of the unique representation made the interetation quicker. GUESS WHAT!!!! My mother asked me to read for her with it. She's really fussed about Bosch, she was impressed by "The Garden..." at the Prado and the things I told her about when we visited it (we often go caravanning across Europe). I'm making progresses... My family ask for readings too now! :D I looked at the spread again, and now I see what you mean!!! Seems like those little monsters are bringing as many swords as they can to the Queen of Swords so that she can pierce that King many times! Sick Mind, i know... :)

Scorpion	09 Jun 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Pollux I suspect you think I am dubious whether to get it or not... WRONG!!! I have the Deck already! *LOL* :D True, Pollux - I misread your statement that it's in your collection: I was thinking you'd said "wishlist". I think the answer is that most people have bought it for the artwork but don't read with it for one reason or another. It never occurred to me not to read with it - it's too beautiful to keep hidden away! Yes, I do understand what you're saying here. I note that you've been to the Prado (I'm jealous - even though we do go camping I'm not likely to make it that far - particularly with three stepsons in tow: museums/art galleries are the ultimate in "uncool" to them at the moment!). I've had a lot of fun trying to match the cards to the paintings (for instance, the Knave of Chalices is the Roman soldier who seems to have Christ on some sort of rein in the Arrest of Christ in the Garden of Gethsemane). As far as I can tell, the Empress is taken from the Virgin and Child in the Epiphany Triptych which is in the Prado. The background has changed and the Child has been replaced by the orb topped with what I take to be a dove (another symbol of Christ, of course). The alignment with the Madonna would, of course, make her the ultimate Empress/Mother figure - particularly if you can equate Mary with the Mother aspect of the Triple Goddess. I see from earlier that you didn't get an LWB with your deck, which is a shame as I think a lot of the sayings are probably Italian in origin, this being a Lo Scarebo deck. I'll e-mail you with the set for the Majors (they're only short and typing is what I'm trained to do). If you find them useful, I'll plough on with the rest over the next couple of days. Quote: GUESS WHAT!!!! My mother asked me to read for her with it. She's really fussed about Bosch, she was impressed by "The Garden..." at the Prado and the things I told her about when we visited it (we often go caravanning across Europe). I'm making progresses... My family ask for readings too now! :D Great news! A wonderful base to start from with people you're comfortable with and who believe in you. Quote: I looked at the spread again, and now I see what you mean!!! Seems like those little monsters are bringing as many swords as they can to the Queen of Swords so that she can pierce that King many times! Sick Mind, i know... :) Now, that's something I didn't think of. I did say I thought she didn't have all the information yet (the 10 Swords says "The far-sighted one. To face the battle you need more than one weapon."). Shame I'll probably never see her again - I could have got your input and relayed it to her!

Pollux	11 Jun 2002
I received your communications, LouiQ. THANKS!! They sound great! A beautiful present, thank you! :)

Scorpion	11 Jun 2002
You're welcome Pollux - just hope it gives you even more insight into the deck! Am I forgiven for not providing the undying worship etc? Think I'm a wee bit too old and wrinkly to join your hareem (although one's told one has a very posh and plummy voice)!!!

Ophiel	10 Jan 2003
I don't know if this is quite 'proper' to do, dig up an old post like this, but as I just got this deck today, I must say it was one of the more 'fun' decks I have ever explored. It's dark and twisted, perverse just a bit, even, possibly naughty...and so much fun! I can't remember the last time I looked through an entire deck, smiling from card to card. Granted, this card is not for everyone, but if you are a bit twisted, a bit eccentric and odd, this deck just might brighten your day, and more!

firemaiden	11 Jan 2003
Now stop it!! You're making me want it again. I looked at it in the store...and thought well, I don't know if the art really communicates much of about the tarot... now you are telling me otherwise? Tell me more!

Ophiel	11 Jan 2003
In all fairness, I must say what I enjoyed about the deck wasn't how it would connect in a reading, but just the diversity of the art and the unusual presentation. What if...Bosch's vision of the world wasn't exactly 'made up' as it might appear, but Bosch saw into other worlds and say, saw astral entities as he depicted in his art? I have a most interesting book that I've mentioned elsewhere in our forums called "The Zelator: The Secret Journals of Mark Hedsel" by David Ovason. It's basically the story of the life of a modern day initiate into the higher realms of spiritual knowledge, allegedly edited by Ovason. I'm not even sure if Hedsel was real. Ovason wrote some other interesting books including "The Secret Architecture of Our Nation's Capital : The Masons and the Building of Washington, D.C." The Zealator takes place in the 1960 - 70-ish period and is about a guy traveling in Europe who travels from one mystery to another, linking certain occult truths from links and correspondences they make. There is a fascinating section on THE FOOL and its esoteric meaning, the image of THE FOOL particuarly in the 15th-16th centuries. The book references a certain by a man named Witowski. It is out of print right now and, I think, was first published in the first part of the 20th century. The book is a collection of sketches and drawings made from various buildings and sites with odd, sometimes pagan imagery. Witowski captured some images similar to the style of Bosch, the demonology and all, from the West front of Saint-Pierre's (wherever that is) around the 14th century. The book presents quite a discussion about the nature of the demons, in light of my comments above about astral vision. As a tarot deck, I have no idea if Bosch would work in readings. I really didn't buy it to read with. And I recently acquired the Dante Tarot as well, for similar reasons. This period, medieval times, Gothic cathedrals, etc. is quite fascinating and I'm glad that someone took the time to capture Bosch's style on the tarot. I can see that this *may not* be one of the more popular tarot decks, but obviously some others in the group have had some success 'reading' with Bosch.

firemaiden	11 Jan 2003
Thanks Ophiel. Geez, that sure was an interesting post. I once had a tour of Paris by a person whom I call the "mad alchemest" (l'alchimiste fou) -- he showed me the secret architecture of Paris, how it is all laid out symbolically, in a cross, etc. plus a lot of other secret magical things...isn't there always so much more to everything than meets the eye...

Ophiel	12 Jan 2003
Firemaiden: Have you read the book "Le Mystere des Cathedrales" by Fulcanelli? It is a fascinating book, some say one that reveals the process of initiation into higher knowledge (I read it, but...j'ai bete!) Fulcanelli examines the bas relief art in the Gothic cathedrals and shows how they were used as instructional tools in the church (but not during Sunday mass!), almost like a text book in the alchemical processes. In fact, I think he's suggesting there was quite a bit going on in the churches other than pedestrian affairs. I have been looking for a copy of that Witowski book, but, alas, to no avail. The images of Bosch do remind me quite a bit of the sorts of imagery that Bosch painted.

The Bosch Deck thread was originally posted on 05 Jun 2002 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.