Looking for Decks - Wands = Air

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 18 Sep 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

PictWelsh	18 Sep 2002
I am looking for information on tarot decks that do not follow the Hermetic tradition of associating Swords with Air and Wands with Fire. I am looking for the reversed associations. I am aware of the "Legend: Arthurian" and "Celtic Dragon" decks but would like to know which others might be available. Thank you.

Rhiannon	18 Sep 2002
The Nigel Jackson tarot does this, at least with the Aces. R :)

RedWood	18 Sep 2002
Shapeshifter is...Wands-air...Swords-fire

Phoenix	18 Sep 2002
Celtic Dragon Tarot. Actually the Celtic Dragon, and Shapeshifter are drawn by the same person.

Cerulean	18 Sep 2002
Brian William's Renaissance Tarot? He explains it well and associates cities or regions of Italy with different suits. The LWB is fine, but I like his bigger book better. I believe his Minchiate Tarot also follows the same pattern. There isn't any little white book, his big book on the Minchiate is very well-done and the only resource on the Minchiate that I know of in English. Someone suggested Emily Peach as an author who might write about such correspondences, as well. Mari H.

Maan	19 Sep 2002
The whismiscal tarot has wands:Air too :)

marmalade	19 Sep 2002
the art nouveau/myers is set up this way too. it was my first deck, and i was so confused when learning it as all the books on the subject are arranged the other way round!! now i'm confused switching it back the other way!

jmd	19 Sep 2002
As traditional decks have neither associations intrinsically made, you may also want to have a look at a Marseilles style deck. Have a look through various threads in the Historical & Iconographic section to see various card depictions. ... and most importantly, welcome to the Forum :)!

Sulis	19 Sep 2002
Hi and welcome to the forum. The witches Tarot by Ellen Cannon-Reed has wands-air, swords-fire. Love and light Crystalmynx xx

DarkElectric	19 Sep 2002
Hi PictWelsh! I just received the Lo Scarabeo Celtic Tarot, and it has the Wands=air, Swords=fire designation. I find the choices of the Major Arcanna a bit odd, but overall I like the deck.

blackthorn	19 Sep 2002
I was going to post about the decks i knew of but everyone has already done that so instead I'll just say hello and welcome I have though looked into the Shapshifters and they are wonderful in my own opinon. A little confusing at first but i think they will be on my wish list.

PictWelsh	20 Sep 2002
Thanks to everyone for all the information. I find there are a lot of sites that show a few cards from a deck and offer a variety of commentary, but lack basic (and to me - critical) structural information. ============== I always have the following questions: Is the fool numbered zero or un-numbered? What are the names assigned to the trumps? (This could be listed as deviations from a norm and I would be willing to accept the Waite nomenclature as the norm.) If the trumps are numbered, what ordering is used? (Especially the position of Strengh and Justice.) Are the suits visually linked to elements and if so which? (I've only seen two systems - the subject of this thread.) What is the naming scheme for the court cards? Are the cards visibly linked (on the card itself) to other information? Such as astrological signs, the Hebrew alphabet, key-words, etc. ============== Is there any site that offers this kind of information in a comprehensive fashion? Searchable would be a bonus. Thanks again for all the information.

Pollux	21 Sep 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Mari_Hoshizaki Brian William's Renaissance Tarot? He explains it well and associates cities or regions of Italy with different suits. The LWB is fine, but I like his bigger book better. Mh... didn't know about that. Seems like I'll have to read some reviews. Mari, could you tell me more privately in private? Email or PM would be great. Please!!! :) (The PC is not working very well today, maybe too many cookies, and PMs page doesn't load. I only hope you will read this message...) Quote: Originally posted by PictWelsh I find there are a lot of sites that (...) lack basic (and to me - critical) structural information. I always have the following questions: (...) Is there any site that offers this kind of information in a comprehensive fashion? Learning the Tarot covers most of them. It has got some pics, so you can see if they bear astrological correspondences too. And it as got the canrds naming (highlighted if renamed), and the same applies to courts. It also bears the name of the suits, and possibly deviations (like Wands/Air for example). This can be found in the Browse And Buy Tarot Decks section. Here is a smaple page, the one regarding Witches Tarot by Reed. You could also try Arcadiae. The Deck Revies section bears some brief reviews with basic info about names and suits. And the colours are so plaesant... :D This is Witches by Reed again... (CrystalMinx knows why I am so excited about this deck ;) *LOL*) I hope this will help you, and good luck with the choice! :)

Cerulean	22 Sep 2002
Joan Bunning's outline explains the Renaissance Tarot by Brian Williams much better than I can http://www.learntarot.com/redesc.htm She links to Wicce.com's review as well and it is a fair assessment. Wicce's site actually makes a valid point: some of the information is in the little white book, so you could also start working from the set if you were just interested in buying the deck first. I remember that is what I did: bought the deck and after reading Tom Tadforlittle's great reviews, bought the book. I think I am very biased, because I may have met Brian Williams and my Florentine-favoring Renaissance teacher in three separate seminars has given us information that always agrees with Brian's work. Brian wasn't a paid Fulbright humanities scholar like my teacher is, but I think some people found that level of quality in his books. At first I thought that I hadn't Brian Williams in person---then I remembered in 1996 or 1997 there was an October seminar put out by a Thalissa called Bay Area Tarot Symposium and I might have gotton a free little pad of runic symbols from a class he might have put on there. A nice, brotherly person. Anyway, since William's history of the tarot and Italian culture is the same slant as my Renaissance teacher, it's easier for me to understand. It may be my simple mind. I like Nigel Jackson's tarot and runes very much, but he reminds me of a great scholar who would to the National Gallery in London, see all the brillant parallels and from his level, gather up the history of Europe and write a deep books that takes awhile to explore. I was thinking it's like reading Tolkien or C.S. Lewis. It was easy for me to read C.S. Lewis' Chronicles of Narnia, The ScrewTape Letters, and his sci-fi just because of my upbringing. Tolkien took years for me to understand-I was a teenager by that time. I look forward to growing to understand Nigel Jackson. Hope the information helps. Mari Hoshizaki

The Looking for Decks - Wands = Air thread was originally posted on 18 Sep 2002 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.