Just got The Pagan Tarot and Thoth

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 22 Jun 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Little Baron	22 Jun 2003
Hi everyone. Just been out on a long drive and didn't come back empty handed again! My dad had some extra cash on him and bought me The Pagan Tarot by Robin Payne and Rosemarie Lewsey. I have seen this deck in a couple of places before but it was only when looking at it on the internet that I was drawn to a few of the cards - in particular, The Fool, The Wheel, The Star and The Moon. I really am attracted to the dreamlike majors but as a first impression, am a little disapointed by the minors and the court cards as little seems to be happening within them. First question; does anybody have or use this deck regularly? Would be very interested to know your thoughts and feelings about it. Second question; does anybody have tips about how to read non-illustrated minors successfully. This is a new one for me. I am studying with the Rider and Universal Waite at the moment, so the illustrated minors have been a plus. I think that the only other deck that I have that does not have illustrated minors of some sort is The Adrian deck, which I do think is interesting but as a lot of people whave said, can be a little cold and hard to 'talk' to. While there, I also picked up The Thoth. I have been resisting it for many years but since I am learning from the Waite decks, thought that the learning of this art could only be enhanced and deepened if I experienced the flip side of the coin. Third question; is it helpful (and possible) to learn with the Rider and Thoth side by side? - comparing, contrasting etc. Look forward to your insights. yaboot

Macavity	22 Jun 2003
In (part, but no real) answer to the first, I hope to have this deck too - Sometime next week! In short, it must be regarded as as pip deck? And there are those keywords, right? But, I've nothing much to offer on the second that hasn't been said? On the third, I'm convinced that this idea of "comparitive" tarot working is immensely helpful. I do sometimes take two or three (ordered) decks and simply go through cards, turning each over, side by side, and musing over the images. Often the most "diverse" decks have a surprising amount in common and it is in even (particularly?) the differences that ALL become more memorable? One can see e.g. how much the Thoth was influenced in the two of disks from the Marseille and more besides etc. etc. ;) Macavity

Myrrha	22 Jun 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Yaboot001 Second question; does anybody have tips about how to read non-illustrated minors successfully. This is a new one for me. I am studying with the Rider and Universal Waite at the moment, so the illustrated minors have been a plus. I think that the only other deck that I have that does not have illustrated minors of some sort is The Adrian deck, which I do think is interesting but as a lot of people whave said, can be a little cold and hard to 'talk' to. Hi Yaboot001. I am trying to learn to read non-illustrated and slightly illustrated minors also and am finding it difficult. The most useful idea I have seen so far is the idea of relating each pip back to the major of that number. So the seven of cups could be thought of as chariot energy (mastery and integration of opposing forces, bringing things together to go your way, mastery) applied to the realm of emotions. The RWS image of the seven of cups illustrates a single particular example of someone needing to do this. There are also systems where the esoteric significance of the numbers themselves is applied to the suits. I like the Adrian, if only it didn't have keywords.... Myrrha

Hedera	22 Jun 2003
I think, especially with a deck as expressive as Thoth, you can read 'moody minors' intuitively. I've crossed out the keywords on mine, and I have no trouble whatsoever 'reading' the images. With a little imagination, you can see all kinds of things in those cards! :) Edited to add: well, no more trouble than I have with my RWS-like decks, anyway... ;)

Emily	22 Jun 2003
I have been studying the Universal Waite and the Thoth side by side, these decks work well together although they are very different. Many of the meanings are the same on the surface but the Thoth gets more interesting once you start to delve deeper into the cards, its worth getting one of the books that explains what you are seeing on each card like The Handbook to the Cards by Hajo Banzhaf or Tarot The Mirror of the Soul by Ziegler. There are many books based on the Rider Waite but not so many on the Thoth. I think that it is my studying of the Rider Waite that is making it easier to learn the Thoth, these decks are fast turning into my main study and reading decks :)

Macavity	29 Jun 2003
As a postscript on the "Tarot 2000 Pagan": I am slightly disappointed. Sad really... Nice art, shame about the card stock? Perhaps it was a self-funded venture? The other thing is those keywords! Fwiw, let me confirm, they are nothing like the Thoth ones... or anything else, for that matter. :laugh: Plus, the suite/element association is also "shuffled". Hey, Fair enough, but I do feel it could make the task more difficult for those with a significant reliance on such things - Notably me! :D Maybe the T2K book would be useful? Maybe it won't feature in my "comparitive tarot" experiments. Perhaps, as they say: "Not for the beginner"? I think I'll "treasure" the deck anyway. I may e.g. "shave" the edges to get them flush and try spraying the cards to make them more glossy and less cerial-pack like - More durable, maybe? Any ideas on the feasibility of (non-feline!) "spraying" - Oh Art-ish people out there ? ;) Macavity

Little Baron	29 Jun 2003
Totally agree with you Macavity. It's a shame about the card stock. Can you imagine what they could have been like? I am glad that I have them because I really do get something out of the majors and I will treasure it too. I think it's a deck I come back to when I am a little more experienced. I am affraid I have no tips about spraying the cards though; and I am so bad with a pair of scissors that I wont be trimming mine either. Yaboot

Trogon	30 Jun 2003
Yaboot... belated congratulations on the new decks! I don't have the Tarot 2000 Pagan, so can't add much there. I've looked at the Thoth a lot (its on my "wish list) but haven't picked it up yet, though I do have the Thoth-based Röhrig Tarot. And yes, I do find that studying these 2 decks side-by-side to be very helpful... to me that is. I feel that by doing this comparison study, the 2 decks together have given me a deeper understanding of each of them than I would have achieved otherwise. Hope this has helped a bit...

skysilver	01 Jul 2003
I was going to get that deck (Pagan Tarot) myself... I liked the illustrations on this website. It is very attractive. I hope you enjoy it.

The Just got The Pagan Tarot and Thoth thread was originally posted on 22 Jun 2003 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.