Printing errors in "Original Rider Waite" (facsimile)

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 29 Nov 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Pagan X	29 Nov 2003
Yesterday I shelled out the $20 for the Original Rider Waite. I had read that the colors were muted, but I wasn't prepared for their utter pea soup and taupeness. Hmm, I wonder, is my deck misprinted perhaps? I check it against the scans of the 1909 deck that are available at http://www.sacred-texts.com/tarot/xr/index.htm Yes, the poor victim of the ten of swords is supposed to be lying in pea soup or baby poop. However, I did discover that the deck I have introduces new coloring errors. *My Queen of Cups holds the Cup with one stark white hand and one flash-colored hand. *My poor Magician holds the stark white wand with a stark white hand. *Justice sits in front of a three-colored curtain. Did I get a particularly bad deck? Were these faults rectified?

Le_Corsair	29 Nov 2003
Welcome to Aeclectic Tarot, Pagan X. If you stop by the New Members forum and introduce yourself, a lot of people will be waiting to greet you. Maybe they'll greet you here, instead! I just checked my own copy of the same deck, purchased two two weeks ago, and discovered the "white hand" on the Queen of Cups. Interesting! I hadn't noticed it before. If it is enough to turn you off of the deck, by all means take it back to the merchant as soon as possible. On my copy of the Universal Waite as colored by Mary Hanson-Roberts, the two hands have the same skin color. My copy of the RWS is ok, too, so it apparently exists only in this particular deck. The Queen of Cups has always amused me, because of the robotic shape of the cup she is holding. I find myself thinking up humorous captions for the card, such as: "The members of the inner household were scandalized by the Queen's love for the tiny robot." "Then one day the Queen found a switch, and the Moolookian Automatic Cattle Castrator went into action; unfortunately, the Queen did not survive the experience." That hand is really very poorly drawn, even when the skin tones are correct. I guess with the "white hand" deck, I'll have to think of a reason to account for it, such as: "The cup was quite pretty, but holding it did cause unfortunate side effects..." "The Queen had many strange eccentricities; among these was always wearing a white glove on her right hand, and carrying around an object she said was a Siberian Tea Samovar, when anyone with discernment could identify it as a Moolookian Automatic Cattle Castrator." My advice: Learn to live with it, or take it back while it is still a new purchase. Bob :THERM

Lee	29 Nov 2003
Hi Pagan X, welcome to Aeclectic! :) The "Original Rider Waite" deck is not a reproduction of the original 1910 deck which Rider published. Instead, it's a reproduction of a Rider deck from a later period, when a craftsman created new printing blocks, presumably because the originals had worn out. That's why the colors and even the drawings themselves are different from the 1910 version. If you want something as close as possible to the 1910 version, the current US Games Rider-Waite deck is probably the closest you could get. I agree that the "Original" deck is unappealing. What should be blue comes out as green, and the drawings are not as fine. I like the idea of using a deck which is a reproduction of an actual old deck, but this one just isn't very attractive. -- Lee

Pagan X	29 Nov 2003
Hmph. The very name of the deck would lead the purchaser to believe that is "The Original"! Lee, do you know if the later deck that is reproduced had the floral back design? Or is this exercise in nostalgia actually a form of "Frankendeck"? It's also interesting to me that US Games has copyrighted it. I'm in agreement with the FAQ at Sacred-Texts that US Games claims of rights are debatable. Like many here, I have decks that I don't use for readings, but like to hoard for beauty or historical interest. In fact, the good ol' RWS (copyright US Games Systems 1971) after thirty years is still the deck I can count on giving me its strong opinions.

Sulis	29 Nov 2003
Hello Pagan X, welcome to Aeclectic. You can see the variety of RWS card backs here:) Love and light Sulis xx

Pagan X	29 Nov 2003
Ah, here is the answer to my question about card backs: http://home.comcast.net/~vilex/Cardbacks.html It would appear to be a "Frankendeck", and less "original" than the yellow-box Rider-Waite I've known and loved for years. More detail from the article "Early Waite-Smith editions" by © K.Frank Jensen 1999 at http://www.tarotpassages.com/manteia.pdf "Pamela C: This edition has a dotted tinting and an undulated line. Size 119x70 millimetres. Thickness: 27 milimetres.The illustrations on this pack correspond with the 1993 Rider-reprint called „The Original Rider/Waite Tarot Pack“ except that this pack has the crackled back pattern (while the reprint has a Rose/Lilies pattern in blue and carries a 1971 USGames copyright statement). ...Compared to Pamela-A, does this pack also appear to be inferior in artistic execution... Pamela-C is present in following collections: • Collection Laurie Amato, USA The thickness given is 30 millimetres. The pack was bought from Gene Hockman, who in his Encyclopedia of American Playing Cards, vol. III, states that „it is believed that an edition of the Waite pack was published in New York simultaneously with the English edition“. I have not found any evidence of this. • Collection Holly Voley, USA this pack has an extra blank card • Victoria and Albert Museum. England The Sun card is illustrated in Cavendish’s The Tarot where the extra line extruding from the crumbled line is clearly visible." ...but it is always important to read *all* of an article: "Another question is, why does the reprint have a Roses and Lilies back pattern and not the cracked pattern, as the other copies of Pamela-C? Was, perhaps, the 1910-set boxed with „The Key...“ printed with a Roses and Lilies pattern, while sold on its own it had the crackled back? The tiny line indicates, that the illustrations on both versions come from the same printing stones. Was it viceversa with the 1909 edition? The riddle of the Roses and Lilies back pattern could, perhaps, be solved by packs in the collections of Stuart R. Kaplan and Robert A. Gilbert, which I, however, could not get access to. I was, secondhand, informed that Stuart R. Kaplan owns the pack from which the 1993-reprint was made, and that this proper pack has the lilies and roses back pattern, so this combination of front and back is not a later construction."

firestorm	29 Nov 2003
Welcome to the forum, PaganX! I checked my Original RW deck. Yes, my 10 of Swords guy is lying in pea soup too, however my Queen of Cups and Magician both have peach colored hands. I just bought the Universal Waite deck over the weekend and I was absolutely astounded at the symbolism that just popped right out at me. There was so much I missed with the Original RW! Not only are the colors unappealing, I feel like I need to get to know the deck all over again.

Cerulean	29 Nov 2003
I agree with you completely. At one point I didn't know any better--until I saw Holly Volley's tarot site. In person, once, someone asked her about the blue boxed "Original Rider Waite" and she didn't exactly boo and hiss, but she said it reminded her of what can happen when a crew of workmen had a bad hangover in a printing plant. Everyone present said the modern yellow box was close, but I kept my eyes online throughout this past year and managed to get the 1971 U.S. Games version with more matte tones, the old text type and no copyright symbol on the card sides...the newsprint paper stock on the LWB isn't slick and the address for U.S. Games is New York. Sometimes a pretty, softer coloring of the Rider Waite Smith deck also appears in old bookstores--the University Books version and it seems to be around 1971 as well. It doesn't have a little white book, as the publishers also counted on buyers ordering the "Pictorial Key to the Tarot" edition of the book... Holly Volley online has scanned cards from an early edition of the Rider Waite and I found it useful for comparison: http://www.sacred-texts.com/tarot/ Under the Pictorial Key to the Tarot samples, here is the Queen of Cups that she scanned: http://www.sacred-texts.com/tarot/pkt/pktcuqu.htm Did you see another version of the Rider Waite on Holly's website that you like?

Emily	30 Nov 2003
Hi Pagan X, I too have the so-called 'Original' Rider Waite. The thing I don't like about it is the black outlining around the figures and other images. It makes some of the cards so dark you can't see detail. Also the colouring has to be the worst of the Rider Waite versions - it looks so washed out, the Star looks like she's got a bad case of measles - it always reminds me of comic book colouring when I see the little dots of colour. At the time of buying this I didn't realise that there was another Rider Waite, the standard one. I have the pocket Rider Waite now too and compared to the Original the colouring is much more friendly on the eye. :)

Pagan X	30 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Le_Corsair "The Queen had many strange eccentricities; among these was always wearing a white glove on her right hand, and carrying around an object she said was a Siberian Tea Samovar, when anyone with discernment could identify it as a Moolookian Automatic Cattle Castrator." Let it be written, let it be known as the "Moolookian Deck." It will keep my Tangerine Invasion Deck company. Bob is a baaaaad influence... My reaction to the Universal Waite was much like yours, firestorm, I was delighted at the previously unnoticed details. The Tarot of New Vision is similar in the sense of discovery, but more intense and controversial. I recently bought a Radiant Waite (aka Tangerine Invasion Deck), as I like bright colors. I'm getting caught up; was away from tarotdom for a while.

Le_Corsair	30 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Pagan X Let it be written, let it be known as the "Moolookian Deck." It will keep my Tangerine Invasion Deck company. Bob is a baaaaad influence... Bad Influence? Moi? :TDEV :smoker: :laugh: :joke: }) Bob :THERM

The Printing errors in "Original Rider Waite" (facsimile) thread was originally posted on 29 Nov 2003 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.