hi i'm new here and desperatly seeking a question solved
Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 16 Jun 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.
| light dance |
16 Jun 2004 |
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Hello everyone.This site is truly inspired and welcome.I have a question about tarot and during google came upon this site.
Over 25 years ago i was into tarot.I used both the book of thoth and thoth deck and the ryder pack.I was uncanningly accurate with my readings for myself and others with the thoth deck. I let the tarot go.....i no longer have accurate readings. nothing makes sense like it used to.
Here is the question . I lost both decks and book in a divorce move. Recently i purchased a ryder pack and viewed the thoth deck in chapters book store. Now is my mind mistaken, am i now in a different timeline with changes unknown to others? I've asked tarot practitioners and they don't recall my question.
QUESTIONS:
I recall the lovers card in ryder to be a snake coiling around an embraced couple nude. Now it's a nude couple in front of a mountain with an angel above blessing them, i interpret.
In the thoth deck ,the card for success, i noticed, has changed.The backside of the thoth deck is a crucifix ,was that always the case?
Is this just me ,and a memory of something else(the timeline thing is theory and subject to other discussion) or did they change these cards.
Should i post this in another section of forum. If i do please forgive the repeativness but i need this addressed and answered.
Thank you for your kindness in advance.
p.s.
this was posted in new members and suggested to post here
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| Kiama |
16 Jun 2004 |
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I light dance, and welcome to the forum!
I think the only changes made to the Thoth deck was a touch-up on the colours- before they were very green-tinged and faded, but they've been brightened up. The borders have also changed slightly over the years, as have the backs, but I think the Thoth has always had that crucifix (which I believe is actually a Rosicrucian Cross- can anybody confirm/deny this?) on the back.
The Rider Waite hasn't changed at all I don't believe, so maybe you're thinking about a different deck? When you say 'Ryder' do you mean Rider Waite by AE Waite and Pamela Colman Smith, or another deck?
Blessings,
Kiama
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| light dance |
16 Jun 2004 |
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thank you for your attention to this....yes i do mean the rider/waite...i also have the albano rider waite deck. ok lets go another route...does anyone know of a card for the lovers in a deck that is a depiction of nude man and woman in a hug surrounded by a snake intertwining. Please notice there is a staff with the snake intertwining in the present rider deck lover card.
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| MeeWah |
16 Jun 2004 |
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Moving thread to Tarot Decks where it would be more likely to reach someone who may be familiar with the particular card image &/or the deck with same.
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| le pendu |
16 Jun 2004 |
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Thanks MeeWah!
I suggested that Light Dancer post in this forum as the question was originally posted in the New Members forum. I considered suggesting the Decks forum, but wasn't sure, so suggested posting here.
Thank you for moving it to a place where Light Dancer will be more likely to get the answers that are sought.
best,
robert
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| MeeWah |
16 Jun 2004 |
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Le pendu: My pleasure. Very sorry I am not of more help.
Light Dance: I hope someone out there can be of help as I am very intrigued by this image of The Lovers!
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| ZeldaWheeler |
16 Jun 2004 |
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It sounds like you had the "Tarot of the Witches" by Fergus Hall. The colors are very vibrant, and "the Lovers" are nude with a snake coiled around them.
I hope this helps.
-zelda
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| light dance |
16 Jun 2004 |
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thank you ever so much Zelda. I shall look for a picture of this card in the "tarot of the Witches" and get back to you all ..I have to say you all are so refreshingly helpfull.
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| light dance |
16 Jun 2004 |
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Originally posted by ZeldaWheeler
It sounds like you had the "Tarot of the Witches" by Fergus Hall. The colors are very vibrant, and "the Lovers" are nude with a snake coiled around them.
I hope this helps.
-zelda
To be absolutly honest i saw the card from a link from this site(this is so cool ,i mean how easier do you want it to be, i was going to go out and look in stores LOL!!) and it is what i described but not the one in memory. The one i have in me mind the snake coils are three. The faces and the art is a lil different more of the muscle pronounced if that makes sense.
just a note to the board:it is a great idea to have moved this question to this thread.
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| light dance |
16 Jun 2004 |
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thanks to you again Robert. That is the same card Zelda had me find. I posted about it ,scroll up.Now I have to go read Zelda's bio. LOL!!!!
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| light dance |
17 Jun 2004 |
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creative fire posted and i replied to this in new members thread. i figure i should post here.
post in entirety:
quote:
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Originally posted by CreativeFire
Hi light dance
If you click on the link below it will take to the Thoth "Royal Road" web site and on this particular page you will find the "sixes" - scroll down and you will see the current "Success" card. This is the same Six of Disks - Success that I have in my current Thoth deck.
Royal Road - Sixes
CreativeFire
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This is what led me to the question. this is not the card I have in memory. ok here is the story so you don't think me mad..LOL!
this is going back, like to round about 1978:
There was this guy, a neighbor, who out of the blue started to sculpt out of clay. huge beautiful busts of people and these fantastic pipes with like indian heads and very well done faces. I really encouraged him to continue this. So a few months into this he asked me to do his tarot.Oddly enough the thoth success card I was talking about was in me head for over a week. I would rise and it's image was there. So you guessed it, this is the first card thrown. i went wow and he was like why why ...hahahaha...i continued.. and the spread revealled that he would expierence a dry spell but it would return and not to worry. he did not like what i said...0_o....and well.......
So about a few monthst later ,he had moved into a new house, i visited him. In his basement i noticed these pathetic looking "things" in the waste basket. I asked him and he denied they were his.....I went "remember the tarot" why worry it said you would expierence a dry spell but it would return...the man became so happy and apologised for his remarks back at the reading...
so you see this was like one of the best readings for another person i did at that time.and it actually helped the guy out for he did return to his sculpting and it did evolve. so of course this success card was the first i looked for last winter in chapters and when it looked different i thought hmmmm. then the same with the lovers card....i really have this thought that i am in a different timeline or something.....now the lover card that Zelda and robert came up with is close to what i remember in the rider pack......i know .i know it's never been in the rider pack..... i am mad ...i am going mad.....LOL ok ok lol!so you see where my confuzzled images are like playing havoc with my reality . my memory... the thoth success card is close but the spikes and symbols are not there in me memory and more of what you see in the center is happening......
well i know sometimes i type like i talk and some find it hard to follow if any of this is of interest to you please comment. "ANYBODY " " arrrrrrgh"!
thanks again for the link...the thoth really are a thing of beauty.. hey!! was it Madame Blavatsky(sp) that dreamt these and had an artist do them?
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| laura_borealis |
17 Jun 2004 |
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Originally posted by ZeldaWheeler
It sounds like you had the "Tarot of the Witches" by Fergus Hall. The colors are very vibrant, and "the Lovers" are nude with a snake coiled around them.
Isn't that actually her hair? It suggests a snake, too, but it looks like her hair to me.
I have had my memories of images alter pretty dramatically before. Illustrations in books, old photos that I ran across again after years... I remember them so clearly being one way, but the reality cannot be denied. The mind is a strange entity. But the way in which images are changed by our minds can be instructive. What does the snake coiling about the couple mean to you? Perhaps that is what is important here.
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| light dance |
17 Jun 2004 |
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Originally posted by laura_borealis
Isn't that actually her hair? It suggests a snake, too, but it looks like her hair to me.
I have had my memories of images alter pretty dramatically before. Illustrations in books, old photos that I ran across again after years... I remember them so clearly being one way, but the reality cannot be denied. The mind is a strange entity. But the way in which images are changed by our minds can be instructive. What does the snake coiling about the couple mean to you? Perhaps that is what is important here.
Good point.
Looking at the card's image (on it's own, i add)and writing what comes to mind right off:
Always took the snake for kundalinni energy. Always think of the card as the marriage(union) of our physical and spiritual components. the prescence of the snake making it an enlightened, heightened, powerful existance. FULL OF LIFE
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| light dance |
17 Jun 2004 |
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please take important note. when you read my above reply and i say always ....in this case it is my interpretation of a symbol....it's not that i am making a statement and that this is the correct interpretation......i assumed that everyone knew this was my interpretation..... then the thought occurred that someone might read it as "written in stone" and this is the "correct way' to interpret this symbol....no no no no....this is my interpretation and the snake shown in thus manner always means that to me....as well as when i see a man and women naked embracing and intertwined three times by a snake it is always a union of the ...........
had to get that in there..... though only thing i am sure of, is there is no right and wrong intuition, or interpretation.......
thanks laura_borealis for making me think tonight.....
your chosen name here is wonderful... if i may:we all should be of the family borealis.....
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| laura_borealis |
17 Jun 2004 |
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I understood that you meant that was your interpretation. :) I agree with it, too, especially about the positive messages of snakes.
Of course you may consider yourself of the family Borealis. :) Boreal has two meanings that I know of, relating to forests and to the north. And the Aurora Borealis of course are the beautiful dancing Northern Lights, which recalls your own chosen name. :)
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| light dance |
17 Jun 2004 |
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Well to all that helped i have to say thanks again. So here is where the quest is at in me mind......
The success card the six of disks in thoth i think is the one i originnally saw. I think the greened edition threw me.
Now the lovers intertwined by a snake could be from the witches tarot deck and just sort of changed a bit in me mind. But because of the strong impression as i described it's still out that there is this mystery afoot about this card that i cannot seem to find anywhere but in me memory. So I shall let it rest .....One thing came out of this quest which started out as a curiosity to see what google could provide, and that is i threw a celtic cross spread. First in years.It was not exactly what i was hoping to see(LOL!!!) but it shows promise and definatly where i am at at present.....so the vibe rubbed off.....i think,actually i am sure that we connect with each other more than we think, when online.
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| ZeldaWheeler |
17 Jun 2004 |
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Hi Robert. Nice to "meet" you! I peeked at your website...your photos are great.
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| MeeWah |
17 Jun 2004 |
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Light Dance: As a given moment will possess a certain uniqueness, possible the image or details remembered influenced by the perception or awareness at that time. That is, those features that impress themselves upon the consciousness &/or unconsciousness differ according to the moment & also may "translate" accordingly.
For instance: to see that which entwines the lovers in Fergus Hall's The Lovers as hair yet as a snake on another viewing.
Another instance: to be "blind" to the similarity of the RWS 6-The Lovers to 15-The Devil at one time & be "struck" by it at another time. In the former, the view may not pertain to the counterpart or not be recognized. In the latter, the recognition that the energy is the same with the difference in its use or focus.
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| ZeldaWheeler |
17 Jun 2004 |
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Laura-
It definitely is her hair! You can see the little bow at the bottom. I like the fact that it still suggests a snake. Very clever.
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| light dance |
18 Jun 2004 |
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Originally posted by MeeWah
Light Dance: As a given moment will possess a certain uniqueness, possible the image or details remembered influenced by the perception or awareness at that time. That is, those features that impress themselves upon the consciousness &/or unconsciousness differ according to the moment & also may "translate" accordingly.
For instance: to see that which entwines the lovers in Fergus Hall's The Lovers as hair yet as a snake on another viewing.
Another instance: to be "blind" to the similarity of the RWS 6-The Lovers to 15-The Devil at one time & be "struck" by it at another time. In the former, the view may not pertain to the counterpart or not be recognized. In the latter, the recognition that the energy is the same with the difference in its use or focus.
a post worth pondering. i've come to this one a few times tonight and wanted to reply....sometimes you just got to leave a thing of beauty stand on it's own.......
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| Ryan |
21 Jun 2004 |
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Subjectively - you may have projected your own image or memory of the image onto the card or memory of the card, which would account for your being unable to find said card - a phenomenon which can occur when tapping into or possessed by deep psychological states.
Objectively - it seems others do not recall this particular image within the deck you mention, so perhaps you are mistaken, are confusing one deck with another, or the deck has indeed changed with (apparently) few the wiser.
Ra
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| Cerulean |
25 Jun 2004 |
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with Lovers embracing and a rainbow like serpent/ribbon...not exactly, but maybe close?
http://www.wicce.com/gendron.jpg
Regards,
Cerulean Mari
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| light dance |
04 Jul 2004 |
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Originally posted by Cerulean
with Lovers embracing and a rainbow like serpent/ribbon...not exactly, but maybe close?
http://www.wicce.com/gendron.jpg
Regards,
Cerulean Mari
thanks so much for the post. no not this one.
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| light dance |
04 Jul 2004 |
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Originally posted by Ryan
Subjectively - you may have projected your own image or memory of the image onto the card or memory of the card, which would account for your being unable to find said card - a phenomenon which can occur when tapping into or possessed by deep psychological states.
Objectively - it seems others do not recall this particular image within the deck you mention, so perhaps you are mistaken, are confusing one deck with another, or the deck has indeed changed with (apparently) few the wiser.
Ra
thanks ever so much for the post and your input. I'm letting the issue go back to where it lies in my memory.....I always wanted a public forum for this issue and found one in this site. I did what i could and found ,what i feel is, the best help possible here.
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The hi i'm new here and desperatly seeking a question solved thread was originally posted on 16 Jun 2004 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.
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