Dragon decks
Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 17 Jul 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.
| Kittaine |
17 Jul 2004 |
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I have a friend who just loves dragons and wants to learn the tarot. And so, she wants a deck that's based on dragons. However, she's a real beginner. What dragon-based deck, aside from the Celtic Dragon and that other Dragon Tarot, would be right for beginners?
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| inanna_tarot |
17 Jul 2004 |
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hello Kittaine!!
Hmm just from a quick search on Acelectic i can only see those 2 dragon tarot decks.
Personally for a beginner, i think the Celtic Dragon tarot by Conway would be better because its more along the lines of RW than the other. From what i see the Dragon tarot has minors more like pips which i dont think helps a beginner all that well.
Blessings,
Sezo
x
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| lunakasha |
17 Jul 2004 |
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YES....I am really excited about the new LoS Dragons deck!!!
For some reason, the Celtic Dragon and the other Dragon deck do not really do it for me....but this new one looks VERY promising!!!
:) Luna
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| WolfSpirit |
17 Jul 2004 |
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Looking forward to the LoS dragon too, but for me a dragon deck can't really be wrong...
I also like the Celtic dragon and the Dragon by Terry Donaldson, I don't use it much but I do like it, it has so many funny details like the Hanged Dragon sliding down a tree and the Hierophant playing with a puppet - I think it has a great sense of humour.
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| OakDragon |
17 Jul 2004 |
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Originally posted by lunakasha
YES....I am really excited about the new LoS Dragons deck!!!
For some reason, the Celtic Dragon and the other Dragon deck do not really do it for me....but this new one looks VERY promising!!!
:) Luna
I concur entirely!
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| raeanne |
19 Jul 2004 |
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Please tell me the red border is a mistake! I can't believe they would put such an ugly border on these cards. What a shame!
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| lunalafey |
19 Jul 2004 |
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Originally posted by raeanne
Please tell me the red border is a mistake! I can't believe they would put such an ugly border on these cards. What a shame!
I'm not to fond of red as well- but one must consider the symbolism of the color and how it fits with the Dragon theme.
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| raeanne |
19 Jul 2004 |
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Originally posted by lunalafey
I'm not to fond of red as well- but one must consider the symbolism of the color and how it fits with the Dragon theme.
Must I?
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| Shade |
22 Sep 2004 |
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Just saw some new scans of the upcoming dragon deck on tarot passages. Looks like the deck realy is working the universality/multiculturalism of dragons... which I really love.
http://www.tarotpassages.com/dragonpo.htm
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| BlueLotus |
22 Sep 2004 |
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Originally posted by Shade
Just saw some new scans of the upcoming dragon deck on tarot passages. Looks like the deck realy is working the universality/multiculturalism of dragons... which I really love.
http://www.tarotpassages.com/dragonpo.htm
Although I had never been particularly fond of dragons, I find this new deck quite intriguing and fascinating. The colors are vivid, and the images are gorgeous.
This deck will probably move faster than others from my wish list to my must-have list .
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| spoonbender |
22 Sep 2004 |
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There are some images on Alida too, for those who haven't seen them. I don't like the other dragon-themed decks, but this one looks kind of cool.
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| SongDeva |
22 Sep 2004 |
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The MerryDay and the Feng Shui both feature dragons.
In Feng Shui Tarot I think they are a suit.
In the Merry Day, they are Aces.
The Druid Animal oracle features 4 elemental dragons too.
All gorgeous!
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| mercenary30 |
22 Sep 2004 |
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As much as I am into fantasy stuff, dragon decks never really appealed to me......but this looks to be interesting. I would like to see them in person....
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| starryeyedsofia |
26 Sep 2004 |
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hmm I'd have to say that I like the other two much better than the new one. And Either would work for beginners. The two people i know that have the dragon decks are both beginners and have no problems reading them.
Thats my input for the day
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| Cerulean |
26 Sep 2004 |
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I saw the Queens on the LS Dragon deck.
In comparison, the Celtic Dragon might be considered more family-friendly to some conservatives, as the Queens are mature women with lovely costumes.
The LS Queens are lovely women without costumes. I've done life drawings and have not seen those physical body types...but my way of drawing usually is sketchy in comparison.
I don't know if this will deter you from enjoying the deck, but people who read in public for others might want to know about this in advance.
Best wishes,
Cerulean
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| Myrrha |
27 Sep 2004 |
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The Empress card made me laugh... I didn't think dragons were mammals. But I guess it is no sillier than animal-headed people or dressed up cats.
--Myrrha
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| Shade |
18 Nov 2004 |
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The more I see of this deck the more I want it. I particularly liked that the magician card looks as if it was inspired by Merlin from John Boorman's film Excalibur down to his helmet, flaming staff, and the image of teh entwined lovers before him echoes the scene of Lancelot and Guenevere from the "coils of the Dragon" scene in the film
compare
http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/dragons-tarot/
with
http://dandalf.com/dandalf/IMG33.JPG
http://dandalf.com/dandalf/excalmerl1.gif
An excellent choice a few dragon lovers I know love that film.
I read the tarot passages review and had two comments. The first was in regards to the reviewer not seeing a connection between African dragons and dinosaurs and to answer that I would say that this decision was probably inspired by legends of Mokele Membe (sp) a creature suposed to live in African jungles that looks like an apatasaurus. From this standoint and also tribal art I think it makes sense to depict the african dragons as dinosaurs. Also she mentioned that the camel on the Empres card was a nod to the Thoth deck, but unless I'm mistaken in the Thoth the camel appears on the High Priestes not the Empress.
I enjoy the Celtic dragon though havent had a chance to work with it as much as I would have liked. The Dragon Tarot I enjoy because it's a dragon deck but often it feels like the dragon theme wasn't carried out as far as it could be.
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| RedMaple |
19 Nov 2004 |
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The Empress card made me laugh... I didn't think dragons were mammals.
--Myrrha
The Empress card made me groan. I want my dragons to be dragons, not dragons with breasts. Yikes! I hate when people disregard the rules of fantasy, it just destroys the fantasy world. When writing fantasy, it is so important to give all the little details of daily life, and to keep them realistic as possible, so that the fantasy elements will be believable. Then of course, the world has its own internal rules.
I haven't come across a world with mammalian dragons. This deck doesn't do it for me at all.
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| Alice |
22 Nov 2004 |
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I have the cards and I really don't see what is wrong with the Empress card. Just a question but what are the rules of fantasy? I thought fantasy was just that, fantasy, something which people can create and it can be however you want it to be because it is not governed by any of the rules of the real world.
The only card which really confuses me if the Lovers, it shows a dieing dragon next to a red man in a pool of blood. I may have missed something but is the Lovers not normally a more possitive card. The explenation given in the LWB dosn't make any sense to me either.
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| Shade |
22 Nov 2004 |
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That is rather a wacky lovers card. Hmmm What does the LWB say?
I have to agree with you about the "rules of fantasy", I don't think there are many limitations of dragons.
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| OakDragon |
22 Nov 2004 |
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The Empress card made me groan. I want my dragons to be dragons, not dragons with breasts. Yikes! I hate when people disregard the rules of fantasy, it just destroys the fantasy world. When writing fantasy, it is so important to give all the little details of daily life, and to keep them realistic as possible, so that the fantasy elements will be believable. Then of course, the world has its own internal rules.
I haven't come across a world with mammalian dragons. This deck doesn't do it for me at all.
I have to agree with RedMaple on this one. I thought I was going to like this deck, too, until I saw this card. Dragons are supposed to be reptilian and not mammalian. One shouldn't be calling something a dragon unless it really is a dragon. I think that's what RM means by fantasy having it's own internal rules.
And also, by the way, what is up with that Knight of Wands card? A dinosaur?! A dinosaur's not a dragon either. The artist(s) must have been running out of ideas.
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| Shade |
22 Nov 2004 |
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All dragons reptilian?!? What about the feathered serpents of the Aztecs? Chinese dragons aren't all scales.
I recommend Dragonology
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0763623296/ref=nosim/aeclectic/
To anyone who would like a fun take o the diversity of dragons. It even details some marsupial dragons in Australia, very cute.
The dinosaur dragons of africa make sense based on the stories of Mokele Membe (sp?). I liked the multicultural approach of the deck.
I just want to know why the camel is on the Empress, that makes me think of the High Priestess.
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| OakDragon |
22 Nov 2004 |
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All dragons reptilian?!? What about the feathered serpents of the Aztecs?
It even details some marsupial dragons in Australia, very cute.
The dinosaur dragons of africa make sense based on the stories of Mokele Membe (sp?). I liked the multicultural approach of the deck.
I guess it all depends on how one defines "dragon". To me, these examples are like saying "A cat is a dog that meows." I can understand what you mean, though. I had just never thought of the concept of the "dragon" being native to that many different cultures.
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| RedMaple |
22 Nov 2004 |
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Just a question but what are the rules of fantasy? I thought fantasy was just that, fantasy, something which people can create and it can be however you want it to be because it is not governed by any of the rules of the real world.
When a writer creates a fantasy world, there are certain rules or laws that operate in that world. This is why we can enter the world, "suspend disbelief" is the phrase used, I think, as if it were one continuous dream. As long as the rules or laws operate consistently, like our own physical laws do in this universe, we accept the world as "real". If the laws are broken, it is jarring, and we are abruptly pulled from the world.
Ursula LeGuin has some interesting essays on creating fantasy worlds that deal with just this.
In the worlds of fantasy, at least in Western tradition, dragons are reptilian, and there are certain things we know about them. Fantasists have expanded our images of dragons (Tolkien, Bradley, LeGuin, for example), but within the already established traditions, which grow out of old old tales.
This is not to say that a writer couldn't create a mammalian dragon, but the development of such a dragon would have to be part of the story, and then we would know that such dragons came from such and such a world.
I do like Chinese dragons, which I see as scaled. They are usually good beings, often represent the earth, or indeed, take the form of mountains or clouds.
And I would say that feathered serpents are still reptiles, serpents being snakes. I'm not sure I would consider them dragons. They come out of a different tradition, and are not pictured in the same way at all.
RedMaple
PS Shade, thanks for the link. Looks like a cool book, I will check it out.
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| Shade |
23 Nov 2004 |
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Rules of fantasy aside it certainly was a startling way to get a point across by putting the breasts where they are on the dragon. Now, my favorite LS deck is the Secret Tarot and it has more than a few naked or half naked women which I don't even blink at any more when I do readings for people because everyone has seen a nude woman in art before. The dragon will take some getting used to.
A simpler way to make a maternal dragon might have been to show a mother dragon with a hatchling... but perhaps that was far too obvious a choice (It's been done) and perhaps there is a specific myth that the artist is citing here (the rain and camel made me think of the genesis flood). Or maybe she is the dragon goddess Tiamat? Only time, about $20, and the LWB will tell.
The lovers card sounds odd and I'm not completely sold on the Hanged Man so I'm ver so lightly worried that this deck might be nother case of "mostly liked it but found a few cards too disappointing to make muchuse of it."
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| Alice |
25 Nov 2004 |
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Still confused by the idea of rules of fantasy, each fantasy worl created by a different author or artist has different rules to suit them so I really dont see how the creator of a world can break the rules.
That aside I still think I will be able to read with this deck I will just have to start looking at these cards differently from how I normally se them.
About the Lover cardm the LWB says:
'The Pact - The pact with the dragon is the primordial marriage with the forces of nature.
Staining himself with the blood of the slain dragon, of the conquered force of nature, the mortal champion becomes invunerable.
Contract-Friendship-Marriage-Disappointments'
To me that dosn't really make the card any clearer.
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| Shade |
04 Mar 2005 |
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Ok I finally got the deck and have been looking through it. Here some observations.
The good. The previous dragon decks have always made references to "The Dragon appears in the legends of cultures from all over the world" but then never really did anything with that. This deck takes the multicultural dragon thing and runs with it in a big way. Most of the Majors are a particular dragon from myth (Tiamat the dragon goddess, Python from the Temple of Delphi) or a person closely associated with dragons (Merlin, Sigurd, St George). This makes the deck stand out from the others where in The Dragon Tarot the dragons were mainly decorative and the Celtic tarot where it was mainly about people.
The minors are each a different culture but not slavishly so. For example wands are mainly African scenes but the 4 shows a scene from Babylon. They get it close but don't nail themselves down.
The not so good:
The courts; the court cards have all been formatted similarly, for example the Queens are all a nude woman of the suit's culture with a dragon which does not make for a lot of variety in the appearance of the court cards.
While there is a great sense of multiculturalism in the deck it isn't always convincing. For example many of the Asian women in the cups suit don't actually look Asian, especially the Queen.
Whenever the majors in a deck are each associated with an individual character you tend to think more of the character than the card's relation to the archetype. For example when I pull III I start thinking about Tiamat and her story more than I think about the Empress of the Tarot. This can be overcome I think over time.
Also some of the non-western dragons look like hybrids. The eastern dragons in the cups suit look a lot like East West dragon love children.
This truly is THE deck for dragon aficionados... so much so that I wonder if others will be able to work with it. Do the names Apophis, Nydhogg, Lung, Python, Tepheus (Typhon) and Leviathan mean anything to you? Hardcore dragon fans will recognize them (as a matter of fact we will probably feel pretty self-important for knowing them), and for people who want to learn all sorts of dragon information will be thrilled, but it won't be as accessible to people who just like fantasy art like other dragon decks.
How does it stack up?
Dragons Tarot (LS) vs. Dragon Tarot (USG) - The USG deck is mainly a dragon influenced Marseilles style deck whereas the LS deck is a theme deck. People who are good with tarot and want a dragon deck that plays by the rules will prefer the USG; people who want a deck that leans towards more complex dragon imagery vs. tarot will like the LS
Dragon (LS) vs. Celtic Dragon (CD) - both are theme decks, the CD will probably be preferred by 1) Wiccans and other Pagans with a largely Celtic slant to their spirituality 2) Those working with Conway's Dancing with Dragons book, and 3) People for whom Air should be fire and Fire should be wands. The deck is (I think) often more about the people than it is about the dragons. The LS does this too in the minors but the majors are more specific to the dragons. The CD will probably also be preferred by people who do not want definite background stories to the dragons and want to be intuitively lead by each image, it is slightly more flexible in this sense. People who desire multiculturalism in their decks will prefer the LS; everyone is white in the CD.
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The Dragon decks thread was originally posted on 17 Jul 2004 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.
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