Tarot de Paris

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 01 Jul 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

tao51	01 Jul 2004
This is a book/deck/silk cloth set. J. Phillip Thomas has this deck with exquisite examples of French art. Many of the majors have received different names. For example the Fool is Awakening. The book offers insight into each card's meaning. The cards have one word guides to the pictures. The book groups the minors according to name or number. It is well worth the consideration.--Tao http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/paris/

Rusty Neon	01 Jul 2004
Thomas' RWS/Thoth/GD-based Tarot de Paris is not to be confused with the 17th century Tarot de Paris. It's unfortunate and confusing that Thomas called his deck by that same name. http://www.spiritone.com/~filipas/Masquerade/Reviews/paris.html :) However, looking on the bright side, it's a good thing that Thomas didn't decide to photograph Marseilles for his deck and call the deck the Tarot de Marseille.

tao51	01 Jul 2004
That would be very confusing!--Tao

SongDeva	02 Jul 2004
There are quite a few threads on this deck. I'm posting a link to one of the meatier ones for you, Tao. http://67.19.40.82/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14542&highlight=de+paris I think there was some work in the general study group as well. Have fun!

Tarot Sparrow	20 Jul 2004
I just bought this deck and love it SOOO much :D It's awesome!

tao51	20 Jul 2004
the symbolism is so intense that it is so easy to find the sense! The book will provide one solution but better if one uses their intuition! --Tao

SongDeva	20 Jul 2004
It's a deck that speaks to me strongly for intuitive use, Tao.

Moonbow*	20 Jul 2004
I'm so glad you guys have all started posting about this deck. I've had it a month or so now and I have only just started looking at the cards in the last few days.... I know, I know.... bad Moonbow. :) I noticed there are a few very old threads about this deck and more recently someone tried to start a Study Group (was it you contrascarpe?) but it seemed to fizzle out. Now, I don't have time to commit regularly to a study group but I was wondering if we could all discuss some of the cards. And... am I the only one that sees a similarity with Tarot of Prague?... (apart from the two different cities of course)

SongDeva	20 Jul 2004
Yeah, both cities and statues. There's a Gothic tarot that uses only graveyard statues. :)

Tarot Sparrow	20 Jul 2004
Before I bought this deck I was curious for awhile. I either hadn't seen it online or I'd seen it and for some outrageous reason didn't like the pictures (bad scans perhaps?). But I saw it in the store and put it on my list and wow, it's even better than I thought it would be! I never imagined there were so many wonderful statues in Paris alone, and the images are gorgeous. This is a true collector's item, it's so rich in symbolism and the images really speak. Just beautiful. Okay I'm done raving now :D Quite odd how coincidentally the Tarot of Prague is right at the top of my wishlist and they are more similar than I realized. The only reason I didn't get that one first was because it needs to be ordered :D

tao51	21 Jul 2004
I bought the Tarot of Prague and was so enchanted by it that I selected the Tarot of Paris because of Thomas' use of architecture and statues from Paris. The cards speak loudly and have a magical flair. The suits that bear the names of the elements make these cards speak with clarity.--Tao

JPT	22 Jul 2004
Hi to All, I am in the process of revising the book for a second printing and would be happy to post a new keywords for the Tarot de Paris if any one is interested. Admittedly, the first book was a bit obscure and riddled with typos — due to a single rushed edit. Some of you may find these keywords more insightful for readings. I there are any questions about the imagery used in these cards I'll try to fill in some liner notes. Frankly speaking, with the rate of new tarot releases, I'm surprised that there is still any discussion about the TdP. During the last year I have been teaching and lecturing about the TdP in Japan. For that purpose, I had to write a text book course and there has been quite a bit 'new' info that surfaced as a result. The 'keywords' I mentioned above are taken from these texts. The Da Vinci Code was published in Japan in May and I frequently speak about the many correlations between the TdP and the 'rather' fantastic scenarios presented by Dan Brown. Another concept that I've developed further is the TdP Major Arcana sequence that utilizes the primordial 'ten' system (instead of the 3x7) to illustrate the Lemniscate inherent in the TAROT. The TdP system is not a journey that goes from 1 to 21 in a staright line. Rather, it is a cyclical, perpetual process of creating and releasing.......01-10 - 11 - 12-21....... never started and never ending but ever integrating via the 11. And on that topic.......I wonder if any of you have ever read or heard of this (I hadn't)....... while working on a large presentation poster of the Major Arcana Leminiscate I had the idea to add all the numbers from 1 to 21 and .............quite amazingly (or naturally as you wish) it equals _ _ _. Ofcourse none of this stuff really matters ....... today the trade winds are blowin' in Maui! Aloha *jpt

tao51	22 Jul 2004
I used the cards in several readings this evening. I selected the deck because I felt it was the deck of choice. I bought this deck because it seemed to call to me. I suppose then I would hear it when it was the best tool. Indeed it was able to bring the situation into focus. The imagry speaks so clearly that the querant was fascinated. Your key words are helpful at times but other times I move past them. I read the book with fascination but truthfully, I read with intuition. I hope the next edition does not lose the magical touch of this edition.--Tao

Moonbow*	22 Jul 2004
Aloha jpt I am interested in what you say here but numerology is a subject that I have not yet delved into. Firstly, the 'ten' system - can you explain what you mean. Also I would be interested to hear more about the number system above and where the number 11 comes into this, is there significance in Strength being the link to keep the journey repeating. And...... tell us what adding 1-21 equals - I get 105 if each digit is added. I seldom use keywords on decks because, like Tao, I try to keep my readings intuitive, but I would be interested to hear the new keywords you have decided on in the next print. So a list would be appreciated.

JPT	22 Jul 2004
Perfect Tao! 'Moving past the words' and 'traveling through the images' was my intention when I wrote the book but publishers tend to adhere to the formula that every deck must be accessible to the novice buyer FIRST ....... So, I tried to cooperate to the extent of the contract and with some responsibilty to anyone who wanted to begin their tarot experience with the TdP. Still, I did get emails from buyers who liked the images but were hoping for a more structured 'this means that' tarot instruction manual. I could only suggest that they read some other books and form their own opinions. However, the 'keywords' I refered to are not exactly rigid. They were compiled from about 500 readings I have personally given since the deck was printed. My own understanding of the meanings of these cards was greatly expanded by what I witnessed in those sessions. The many years that went into creating the images for this deck was a very 'interior' endeavor but it has been quite another experience to 'see' what they have to 'say' in actual sessions. best, *jpt

baba-prague	22 Jul 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Dead Star Quite odd how coincidentally the Tarot of Prague is right at the top of my wishlist and they are more similar than I realized. The only reason I didn't get that one first was because it needs to be ordered :D Well, it's interesting as we see them as hugely different! But that's from our very particular perspective. The Tarot of Prague very much follows the Rider Waite Smith system. It also includes a lot of elements that are not taken from statues (although in a different way of course this is true of the Tarot de Paris). The style of image is different also, but actually, I think this stands out more when you actually have the cards in front of you. It may not be so obvious from on-screen images. Anyway, it's just good hearing the different reactions. It would be good to hear what other people think of the comparison. I suppose it all depends on perspective in the end. I'm glad you like both decks, in the end, that's what matters :-)

SongDeva	22 Jul 2004
Quote: Originally posted by JPT The Da Vinci Code was published in Japan in May and I frequently speak about the many correlations between the TdP and the 'rather' fantastic scenarios presented by Dan Brown. ---cut--- And on that topic.......I wonder if any of you have ever read or heard of this (I hadn't)....... while working on a large presentation poster of the Major Arcana Leminiscate I had the idea to add all the numbers from 1 to 21 and .............quite amazingly (or naturally as you wish) it equals _ _ _. *jpt I added them and got 231. What's the significance? Also, JPT, I'd be really interested to hear about the Da Vinci Code connection....are your speeches available in written form? Finally, it's amazing that you've been able to do over 500 readings with this deck. **Could I do a reading for you with the TdP? Songdeva

SilverWing	22 Jul 2004
The sample cards are neat looking.

Tarot Sparrow	22 Jul 2004
Quote: Originally posted by baba-prague Well, it's interesting as we see them as hugely different! But that's from our very particular perspective. The Tarot of Prague very much follows the Rider Waite Smith system. It also includes a lot of elements that are not taken from statues (although in a different way of course this is true of the Tarot de Paris). The style of image is different also, but actually, I think this stands out more when you actually have the cards in front of you. It may not be so obvious from on-screen images. Anyway, it's just good hearing the different reactions. It would be good to hear what other people think of the comparison. I suppose it all depends on perspective in the end. I'm glad you like both decks, in the end, that's what matters :-) I do agree that they aren't too similar, the TdP is much more centralized around statues and structures while the ToP is more obscure in its artwork. I do like both though :) Oh, and I just ordered your deck by the way baba_prague--didn't want to wait too long and have it all sell out! ;)

tao51	22 Jul 2004
Quote: Originally posted by baba-prague Well, it's interesting as we see them as hugely different! But that's from our very particular perspective. The Tarot of Prague very much follows the Rider Waite Smith system. It also includes a lot of elements that are not taken from statues (although in a different way of course this is true of the Tarot de Paris). The style of image is different also, but actually, I think this stands out more when you actually have the cards in front of you. It may not be so obvious from on-screen images. Anyway, it's just good hearing the different reactions. It would be good to hear what other people think of the comparison. I suppose it all depends on perspective in the end. I'm glad you like both decks, in the end, that's what matters :-) I was so enamored by the Tarot of Praque that it aroused my interest in the Tarot de Paris. The only similarities is that both feature art from magical European cities. They employ different systems. TdP relies more heavily on the statures and architecture while ToP uses the atatues and architecture with other symbols. Both decks lend themselves to intuitive reading. Personally, I find both decks enchanting. The question is "If I had not felt drawn to the Tarot of Prague, would I have found the Tarot de Paris?" Alternately, could the reverse had the similar results? Each deck that I have acquired has had a certain appeal. So to repeat: I was so enamored by the Tarot of Praque that it aroused my interest in the Tarot de Paris.--Tao

JPT	22 Jul 2004
Hi Moonbow, I've had some problems with this posting in that after I edited the text they were not saved when actually appearing in the forum.....hmmmmm? ......................The Tarot Leminiscate – Tarot de Paris 2004 .............................................Master Numbers .....................11––––––––––––––––22–––––––––––––––––––33 ---------------------- 4.....3.....2....1....................12....13....14.....15 ------------------5 ............................................................................16 -------------------------01-------10---------11---------12--------21 ------------------6..............................................................................17 -----------------------7.....8.....9....10..................21.....20...19.....18 Your Question – What is the significance of 11 in the TDP Major Arcana? In order to ‘see’ the significance of the ‘11’ in the Major Arcana we must first discover the '10' within the ‘1 -21+0=22’ code. Why?....... After regrouping the 1-21 into ‘1-10’ - 11- 12 – 21’ we can then perceive the flow of all the Major Arcana through the ‘11’. It is generally agreed that '10' is a completion number in the minor arcana and that '21' speaks of completion of the Major Arcana. Therefore, the '10' suggests a direct correlation between the minor and the major arcana and the possibility of a unified base in both systems. Random clippings from talks on this topic: >'11' is the nexus, the hub, of the Major Arcana. I have always been bothered by Waite's swapping of the 8 and the 11. There is a great intrigue hidden in that action and it is all keyed on the lemniscates (visible and subtle) in the major arcana. This mystery has held my interest for many years. IMO the position of the '11' is worthy of serious consideration. While we are incarnate, and consequently passing through some stage of the Tarot Lemniscate, the '11' is as close as we generally come to 'knowing' the essence of 0-22 – THE WHOLE. >As an icon, ‘11’ is viewed as two vertical marks: '1' for the 01-10 cycle and the other '1' for the 12-21 cycle. >This is the reason I was moved to rename the ‘11’ card PRESENCE (or in romans X + One/All). >We can intuit the PRESENCE of 0-22 while standing at the crossroads of the ‘11’ (meaning the center of the sequence 01-10--11--12-21) but we can't stay there long. We truly need STRENGTH to continue because ‘11’ is merely a transit lounge between cycles. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Master Numbers 1) Notice that the 5 and the 6 represent the farthest points away from the center on the left side and the 16 and 17 on the right. Their 'distance from the center’ adds an interesting aspect to the interpretation of those particular cards. Sorry, I can't properly go into these explanations in a forum.......... 2) By adding the waywardly 5 + 6 and you’ll get ‘11’ as the first master number. 3) The second master number, '22' is above the '11' as its greater Hermetic complement. There's much I would like to say about this but.......not enough time 4)) Next ...add the 16 + 17 to acheive the third master number 33. Then consider the implications of the 16 (Tower) and 17 (Star) being so FAR away from the center/vortex/portal to the Whole, etc.? 5) In any case........we find that the Tarot Lemniscate is of comprised of the master numbers 11 - 22 - 33. Curious isn't it? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ An full explanation of the 1 through 21 total = 231 will follow..... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ '10' Base (premise) I look at '10' as an icon; a ’1’ and a ‘0’ (i.e., One is All & All is One = The Whole). In so doing the ‘10’ reveals a deeper numerological layer of synthesis as binary code....'01010’, the language of the computer. Similarly, I find that the human computer (the brain) is somehow based on '10' due to the fact that the primitive brain was first taught to create and count by observing the actions of the 10 fingers. And further, that brain, collected and stored the core impressions from which the 'mind' slowly evolved (not to forget the likely addition of some ‘star dust’). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Re: the Da Vinci correlations to tarot and the TdP ...... it is probably a better idea to start a new thread. aloha, *jpt

tao51	23 Jul 2004
This is helpful in understanding the organization of TdP. While I feel all symbols including numbers and words are useful, I also feel the presences of no words or numbers. As in the ordering comes the unordering. Numbers and words are easily manipulated. Can that which is not seen be manipulated also? The thoughts that arise without conventual symbols may be of purer thought. I see the concept of your ordering of the Major Arcana. The opening sentence of your description of Presence "Gazing through the tarot window, we get a brief glimpse of the possibility of perfection--a serene profile of animal and human nature unified under the divine influence of the Logos." The profundity of the statement keys my understanding of this organization. Thank you for your post!--Tao

Moonbow*	23 Jul 2004
thank you for the post jpt Firstly I need to tell you that I can add up! I was adding the digits individually i.e for 11+12, ( 1+1+1+2=5) instead of 23. But now that I am on the same track as you, I have found what you said very interesting. I have been reading up on the number 11 and it seems to have mixed reviews but one theory is that it is a number of illumination, revelation and timeliness which, to me, seems to fit in nicely with your opinon of it being the nexus of the Major Arcana. I'm trying to work out the lemniscate and if I am right it will look like this:- 11 in the middle, numbers 12-21 on the right loop, starting next to the 11 and going up and round. Numbers 1-10 on the left, starting with 1 next to 11 and going up and round. I think I am beginning to understand what you are saying (like I said, numerology and me.......)

Moonbow*	23 Jul 2004
I get it now... as much as I am going to at the moment. :) Thanks for the re-working of the lemniscate it is now very clear. Your views seem to be similar to what I have read about the Tarot de Marseille, and they deserve a lot more studying by me. I am now, not only surrounded by your deck, but books on numerology, it's very infectious. I will be puting more thoughts into your deck and book, as it is my deck of choice at the moment. So far, I have not read with it because it is still new to me, but I am studying it. Thank you jpt, I will keep checking back here

The Tarot de Paris thread was originally posted on 01 Jul 2004 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.