The box is pretty, but what about the cards?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 17 Apr 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Lillie	17 Apr 2005
I have seen a few of these on Ebay. They catch my eye because the box looks so beautiful. However, I have never managed to see a pic of the cards. Does anyone know what they are like? Are they as pretty as the box? Are the minors illustrated? Does anyone know anything about them?

tarotbear	17 Apr 2005
This Deck has no official name, but is published by 'Cachet' and is referred to as the 'Cachet Tarot.' It may have a review on AT. It's a pretty deck; MeeWah bought me one for my birthday ... which is coming up in two weeks...hinthinthint. However, the Pips ARE NOT illustrated, just the usual Marsailles-style deck. They are as pretty as the illustrations on the box ... but only the Majors and Courts are illustrated. It comes with a book - but that is uninspired :( and almost an afterthought.

Cerulean	17 Apr 2005
http://www.tarotpassages.com/cachet-lb.htm Wasn't a keeper for me, but nice deck. Cerulean P.S. A listing for it: http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=cachet&tn=tarot If I were a buyer, I'd send a note first and try to confirm it's in stock...

spoonbender	18 Apr 2005
tarotbear wrote: However, the Pips ARE NOT illustrated, just the usual Marsailles-style deck. Tarotbear, do you own a Tarot of Marseilles? Because the pips in a Tarot of Marseilles ARE illustrated and the style of the Cachet Tarot doesn't look anything like it - see for yourself: Cachet 8 of Pentacles versus Hadar Tarot of Marseilles 8 of Coins. Even the names of the suit symbols are different! Spoon

tarotbear	18 Apr 2005
If the Pips are nothing but a number of the suit symbol, no figures and no pictures, IMHO it's a Marseilles deck. No matter how fancy-schmancy the card may be drawn, if the Eight of Coins contains nothing but a drawing of eight coins - it's a Marseilles-style deck. In fact, I own three or four versions of the Marseilles deck.

Little Baron	18 Apr 2005
tarotbear wrote: If the Pips are nothing but a number of the suit symbol, no figures and no pictures, IMHO it's a Marseilles deck. No matter how fancy-schmancy the card may be drawn, if the Eight of Coins contains nothing but a drawing of eight coins - it's a Marseilles-style deck. If that were true, then I have many more Marseille decks than I thought ... The 'Adrian', 'Pagan 2000', 'Sasha Fenton' '1JJ Swiss', 'Stairs of Gold', to mention a few, all have non-pictorial minors, which have no characters or scenes in them. The Marseille decks all adhere to a certain pattern which identifies them - this is what would qualify a modern deck, such as the 'Hadar' as a Marseille - its titleing, ordering, suits and floral illustrations. The 'Adrian', as an example, does not adhere to the same pattern and therefore, not considered as a Marseille. That would be like saying that the 'Phantasmagoric Theatre Tarot' is a Rider Waite cloan because it has scenes and characters in the minor cards and a certain amount of cups in a particular card. With reference to the original post, it is a pretty deck, from what I managed to see of it. LB

Kissa	18 Apr 2005
tarotbear wrote: If the Pips are nothing but a number of the suit symbol, no figures and no pictures, IMHO it's a Marseilles deck. ouch. that one did hurt... so reducing, so wrong, even from the historical and iconographical point of view. come on, there has to be more about the Marseilles pips than them being purely on the negative (mathermatical/depriving sense) side: "NO figures, NO pictures", "NOTHING BUT..." i am so sorry to read this. there is a whole history and tradition in any Marseilles deck that has nothing in common with the lack of imagination of actual artists or the low manufacturing costs policy of the publishers. there is so often more to read in the NO-NO-NOTHING Marseilles pips than in the "overloaded-wonder where that came from?-pseudo esoterical-marketing targeted themes" so called RWS clones decks. kissa

Sulis	18 Apr 2005
Moderator note: This thread is going off-topic. It's turning into a 'What constitutes a Marseilles deck?' discussion. Could we get back to the original topic which was the Cachet deck? If anyone would like to continue the 'Marseilles' topic then those posts can be split into another thread. Sulis co-moderator - Tarot Decks

MeeWah	18 Apr 2005
The box image caught my eye. The cards do not disappoint as they echo the box illustration. The details of the figures including their facial expressions finely drawn & richly coloured. As Tarotbear mentioned, the pips are of the type known as the non-illustrated in that they do not depict scenes nor figures, etc. I would also see them as more reminiscent of the Marseilles styling than of the RWS for that quality, though not as actually Marseilles.

Lillie	18 Apr 2005
Thank you all for the information and the links. If I came across a cheap copy I might well buy it as it looks so pretty. (and I had said that I would buy no more!) I will be away for a bit soon, so best wishes to Tarot Bear for his upcoming birthday, in case I am not back when it happens.

tarotbear	18 Apr 2005
Has anyone who has taken this opportunity to jump down my throat bothered to notice that in my initial response I said a Marseilles-style deck? I also said 'IMHO' in another response? Remember - you can always put me on ignore... :smoker: I will say it again, regardless of the stone-throwing: IMHO {that means in my humble opinion} ~ if the pips DO NOT have pictures, but show only a number of suit symbols, I {notice - 'I' }consider it a Marseilles-STYLEdeck. The Cachet Tarot is, IMHO, a Marseilles-style deck. Get over yourselves, those of you who think the Marseilles is the tarot god's gift to the world.

Shade	18 Apr 2005
Sulis, maybe this thread should be split so the emerging topic can be explored more fully. Maybe the issue is just that we do not yet have a label for non-scenic pip decks and the Marseiles label has stuck even if it isn't completely accurate. If a lack of scenic-pips is the only indication of a Marseilles style deck then one could argue that the Thoth is a Marseilles deck. The cards look very pretty but I wonder if that isn't all there is to them. Taking the deck's devil card as an example it seems at first as though someone drew a very ominous looking devil that we can look at and say "Yep that's a Devil" but there doesn't seem to be a great deal more to hang an interpretation on. http://www.tarotpassages.com/images5/CachetDevil.jpg The chains are there but that is just about it. This would be readable only if a person already understands what a tarot devil is all about.

Kissa	19 Apr 2005
tarotbear wrote: I will say it again, regardless of the stone-throwing: IMHO ~ IF THE PIPS DO NOT HAVE PICTURES, BUT SHOW A NUMBER OF THE SUIT SYMBOLS, THEN I CONSIDER IT A MARSAILLES-STYLE deck. and i say it again, regardless of the stone-throwing: IMHO ~ if someone (= anyone) thinks a deck is a Marseilles-type just because it has non-scenic pips, then I (= Kissa) consider this asumption a simplistic/irrelevant/incorrect-style asumption. Kissa

Little Baron	19 Apr 2005
Shade wrote: Sulis, maybe this thread should be split so the emerging topic can be explored more fully. Maybe the issue is just that we do not yet have a label for non-scenic pip decks and the Marseiles label has stuck even if it isn't completely accurate. If a lack of scenic-pips is the only indication of a Marseilles style deck then one could argue that the Thoth is a Marseilles deck. I am sure there have been threads in the past that have discussed this but I think that it would be a good idea, Shade, to find a new label for these kind of decks. I echo your view that a split in thread would be beneficial. I did not say or suggest that the Marseille is 'a gift from the tarot gods to the world' - it is just my deck of choice, as many other people choose other tarot packs. However, when initially finding out about it, suggestion that decks with 'non-scenic' minors were Marseille-styled, would have been misleading in my understanding of the Marseille. The Cachet tarot, from what I have seen, is a pretty deck and I am sure a reader could gain a lot from it's non-scenic pips - they would learn very little about the tradition and illustrations of the Marseille from it though. Just a few extra thoughts, which are in no way intended to rattle any cages. LB

Sulis	19 Apr 2005
Hi Folks, Eco74 has started a new thread 'Scenic or non, what should we call it?' over in Talking Tarot I think to split this thread would disrupt it's flow so any further discussion should about scenic/non scenic pips should take place over there (unless it relates to the Cachet deck of course :)) Love Sulis xx

Emily	19 Apr 2005
I love the style of the Chachet deck too - well the Majors - but I didn't like the style of the pips - I don't read pip cards too well especially when all that is on the card is what is says - 4 coins, 2 cups etc. If I came across the set cheaply I would buy it just for the Majors and use it as a Majors only deck. :)

bleuivy	19 Apr 2005
Emily wrote: I love the style of the Chachet deck too - well the Majors - but I didn't like the style of the pips - I don't read pip cards too well especially when all that is on the card is what is says - 4 coins, 2 cups etc. If I came across the set cheaply I would buy it just for the Majors and use it as a Majors only deck. :) I agree with you, Emily. I'm not sure I could read the pip cards (or whatever we're eventually going to decide to call them), but I love the majors and the courts. If I found the deck cheaply enough, I would deffinately buy it for a majors only deck, and for the occasional court-card reading excercise.

The The box is pretty, but what about the cards? thread was originally posted on 17 Apr 2005 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.