who was jesus christ?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 13 Sep 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

jade	13 Sep 2002
who do you believe him to be? did he ever exist or is he simply a story that has been created? i don't believe in him strongly, as i really don't give him alot of thought (hence the thread)........but i do think that he was a 'perfect psychic'. a man that had a strong connection with the gos/goddess/all-that-is force and was able to manifest things, heal people and was a great teacher. in light, jade

Sullanciri2002	13 Sep 2002
or better, the one that pleased me most ... was about Jesus beďng a direct descendant of the Davidic Kings, and thus in line to become defacto ruler of their state - except for the military strength of the Romans, and the political powerplay of the priesthood. In this book about the Holy Grail interpreted as the direct bloodline of Jesus & Mary-Magdalen, the writers see that heritage as important and "holy" enough in it's own right - without any need for extra's "miraculous" stuff. The core of their "worship" is however based on their belief that the values Jesus and his forefathers of the Davidic line represented as "kings" ... was the true heritage worthy of respect: the idea that a king serves his people, instead of putting himself and the ruling caste above the people. Personally, I don't much care what the "truth" of it is - the value of Jesus is in the simplest of his messages: strive to be as good a person as you can be, to help eachother. Everything that was added later - by whatever "church" (as in organized institution) - is of a lesser interest in my humble opinion.

Adrian	13 Sep 2002
Hello, Would imagine this a very sticky topic and everyone will have their views. Well here are my views................... Well Jesus of Nazerath was a prophet/adept. YEs I believe he did exist, and had very strong powers to heal and was highly develped spiritually.

wavebreaker	13 Sep 2002
I was raised as a catholic and was taught that everything in the Bible happened exactly the way it was described and that all the people in it really existed. Nowadays, I see the Bible more as a collection of myths and legends that were created to teach people something, just like the ancient Greek and Roman myths and legends. Most myths and legends are based on real events and real persons, so I'm sure some of the events described in the Bible did really happen. As for Jesus: I do think he really existed, and I think he was probably a great healer whom a lot of people came to see. I doubt whether he was actually able to resurrect the death, but I'm convinced he did a lot of good work and taught people a lot of important lessons.

Bings	13 Sep 2002
I was also raised catholic and was taught that the bible was indeed fact. Now I see the bible more as a collection of very interesting stories. Some fact, some fiction, some myth, some legends compiled together all writen by MAN. I believe that Jesus really did exist. I also believe he was a wonderful man, teacher, healer. I look at him as a man who believed so strongly in his faith that he gave up his life for it. He was a good man, who did some good things. Dianne

cjtarot	13 Sep 2002
Hi all, I love to hear what other think. Here is my take on the whole picture. First the quote.. " I do think he really existed, and I think he was probably a great healer whom a lot of people came to se. I doubt whether he was actually able to resurrect the death, but I'm convinced he did a lot of good work and taught people a lot of important lessons." Here is my answer: I am a Christian, I believe that Jesus did survive Death, He was a great healer, the storie I have heard (not read or researched yet) is that he and Mary Magdaline escaped into egypt and from there traveled to spread the word of God..Thus you will hear of Budda talking to a white man with brown hair and blue eyes.. Here is what I think.. Jesus's spirit had evolved to the hightest level- he may have been the first to reach the level we all strive for or given the knowledge directly from God- I believe that like our spirit he was given the chance to come to earth and make a true connection. I value his teachings, his love and support. As far as the "Holy Trinity"..My feeling is God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are "AS" one...together they teach us, help us, love us and above all accept us for who we are..because we have them in our lives we are never alone and no matter what know that any pain or set back is only temporary..that we will be joining them in heaven - the other side - and be whole and happy. Blessings Cj

marmalade	13 Sep 2002
he was a SUPERSTAR! sorry, couldn't resist. even though i was raised catholic (technically, but we didn't really go to church much and i really know very little of the stories in the Bible), I never thought he was a real person until i was about 17 and saw a mention in a magazine about the 'historical evidence' that he actually did... i don't remember what the evidence was, whether it was actual artefacts or the Bible itself, but until that point i always thought he was a made up person, as with everybody else in the Bible. I dunno, i think it was the fact that i read books about dinosaurs before i read the children's Bible, and since there was no mention of dinosaurs in the Bible before Adam & Eve, but I had seen dinosaur bones at the museum, i figured it must all be some made up story of the world. even now i don't see him as an 'actual' historical figure.

ihcoyc	13 Sep 2002
I accept that Jesus Christ was God, the Son of God, that he died to redeem us, and that he rose again from the dead to point the way to eternal life. I admit that taking all of that on faith is something of a stretch. If you were to claim that it seems unlikely, I could not disagree. The clincher for me is not the fact that allegedly miracles were performed in ancient Palestine two thousand years ago. It is the concept of Grace: the idea that nothing we can do will make God love us any more, and nothing we can do will make God love us any less. This is strongly contrary to the standard human (and usual religious) model of rewards and punishments, the notion that you have to earn your way into Heaven by practicing rituals or observing a code of laws. I cannot help but think that it seems unlikely that a mere human being could come up with a religion with this message at its core.

HOLMES	13 Sep 2002
the man really did exist it is the roman records. and they used it to vertifiy what time he did exist. the fact of the matter is he wasnt' white like they portray him in the paintins but he was brown and had the jew style of hair of the time. his face was kind of long they said on tlc or was it the disovery channel. besides that he was the master healer, teacher, spiritualists. he was the son of god as we are all are like the females are the daughters of god. the differnt between him and us is he was the awakend divine spark within. and what he was teaching was the way to awaken it within us. i believe like they say that from the time he was 17 til 32 he went to tibet and studied buddha teachings. and came to understand and use reiki. that is how it was revealed back to the original founder. yes i believe that he survived death for death doesnt' exist we just end our journey here on earth and go home :O) and after that he left to come to north america to teach us our native ways. thus he was also attuned to the goddes energies of mother earth. he did that after he ascended after giving his disciples the holy spirit upon their mantles. now i follow his word in the course of miracles and the jeshua letters. i do this for the bible been changed by the church many times to fit their meanings and therefore changed the words of jesus over years from what he really said. and know this that what he really said coudln't be understood by the people of the time fully so it may of been recorded over time. oral tradion changes things over years but the meaning stays the same thus the words written in the bible written 75 to 100 years (i forget) after his death are themselves diluted somehow. even now he speak to those who choose to listen much like the ascended masters and even buddha. why doesnt' every one talk to him and hear him they can if they want to and release the fears. but we must travel at our levels so therefore st germain, and others help those who are not yet ready. for the 12 dispciles formed the council of light of their own and are now teaching those who can reach them or have clear their minds. and such. my friends these are my beliefs and not meant to preach to you. they are what rings true to me and maybe what i say can spark a postive conversation and i am very proud to see it postive so far :O) it goes to show religion stagnant and dogma can not hide what rings true inside. and the tradition itself as good it was is dying for the new gospel ,, the gospel we hear in our hearts on our path of spiritual discovery. forgive me if this sounds jargled i coudlnt' sleep all giht and got a full day ahead of me so i am running on the red , on empty, on fumes and soon no doubt will crash eheh.

ChrisTheObscure	13 Sep 2002
I've recently had some very, very negative experiences with Christianity; because of this, I'm still trying to regain my connection to the divine, and so I don't know what I think about Jesus as the Christ. There is quite a bit of historical evidence, I believe, that he existed; however, his teachings echo many of the teachings that more radical elements of the Pharisees at the time, and were not necessarily unique to just himself. I just don't know. C.

Laurel	13 Sep 2002
I believe that Jesus was born, had transcendental mystic experiences, preformed miracles, loved both God and humanity deeply, was executed, and underwent apotheosis- he did in fact become a god. I do not believe his apotheosis was foreordained or that he was born with any more god-potential than anyone else. I do not believe he was "God's only Son". My definition of "a god" is based on the ideas of Jungian archetypes and Egyptian "neters". I don't doubt Grace; I don't think belief in Jesus is necessary for Grace. I believe Jesus represents a path to salvation; I don't believe he is the only path. I believe that if he were somehow projected forward into time, he would be awed by all the goodness and beauty done in his name and weep tears of blood at all the evil and cruelty done in his name. There's been so much of both. Laurel

Minderwiz	13 Sep 2002
An interesting book for people to have a dip into is the Lost Gospel by Burton Mack. Mack shows the core teachings lying below the gospels - the original source that can be inferred. Jesus' teaching was more or less encapsulated by the Sermon on the Mount and one or two other short statements. Early Jesus followers did not believe nor were they required to believe that Jesus was divine - He was treated more as a teacher and healer. The divine overlay was added later, after the Jewish revolt of 69 AD. Now I'm not learned enough to know how true this is, nor some of the other alternative Jesus views, such as contained in The Jesus Mysteries. However at a personal level I have always seen the divine overlay as unnecessary - the teachings are what counts and stand in their own right. Whether Jesus was or was not divine, whether he lived or was a myth is for me beside the point - Jesus is the teachings that bear his name and if we all tried to observe them (especially the churches) the world would be a better place. Minderwiz

Liliana	13 Sep 2002
Yes I believe he existed, healed and performed other miracles, died and was resurrected for sins, as a hristian it is part of my faith, but I wont argue with anyone who believes differently beause there is no proof. As for survivng and escaping could be but I always heard they went to France (Maty Magdalene and Jesus) thats why there are so many Magdalene temples there. But I also dont necessarily believe Jesus was the only incarnation of God in his highest form (obviously we are all children of God in some way), the spiritual leaders of other reliions are just as valid to me. :THP

Umbrae	13 Sep 2002
From a historical point of view Christianity is not as unique as many of it's adherents make out. The legend of a virgin birth, of a dying and rising God and most of Christ's reported miracles are mirrored in most mythologies of the Middle East and Europe and India. There was great cross-fertilization of religious ideas in the preceding 1-2000 years prior to Christ's birth. In particular a group of Jews called Essenes were greatly influenced by the Zoroastrian concept of good versus evil and the explanation that evil came into the world by the agent of either an evil God as in Zoroastrianism or a fallen angel as in Judaism. In addition, virtually all of Christ's teachings are present in the Essene scriptures as revealed by the Dead Sea Scrolls whose teachings pre-date Christ by at least 100 years. Finally, the terminology 'Son of Man' and 'Son of God' are not meant to denote a specific relationship to God that is now understood by Christianity where Christ has been elevated to the status of God The Son, but that we all have within us that part of divinity that makes us sons and daughters of the divine. All the Essenes were seen as sons of God and sons of Man. Of further interest: http://cedar.evansville.edu/~ecoleweb/glossary/nestorius.html It is important to remember that Jesus, and Christianity are not one in the same.

cricket	13 Sep 2002
Who was Jesus? Jesus was a man. No more than that. Maybe he did lead an exceptional life, or maybe all the stories are exaggerations. Who knows? IMO, Jesus is comparable to Confuscious, or Homer. They were thinkers, teachers, people who stirred the soup (so to speak). That doesn't make anybody else here right or wrong. Simply because nobody knows.

lunalafey	13 Sep 2002
He was an extreamly enlightened individual.. probably one of the most enlightened ever. I come across those that are 'preaching' their religion and they ask the question..."do you believe that Jesus was the son of god?" they don't seem to like my answer, to profound? "of course, we are all children of god" I see the bible as a strech of the facts. It has been altered through time by those in power to keep the power. That was NOT what Jesus' teaching where about. These religions that use the bible are just to odd for me....Jesus I'm sure could see psychically, and according to the bible, this is a baaaad thing...also, idolizing...according to the bible, not supposed to do that, yet christians idolize Christ and Catholics idolize Mary....what's up with that??? Jesus was a man with a heart and a clear picture of how to respect and treat ones fellow man....His inspired (by the spirit) mission was to show people the right way to treat others....and to prove that one should have faith!!!! sorry, but I don't think Mary was a virgin....

VGimlet	13 Sep 2002
I think he existed, and was someone who followed his heart. I don't think he was divine.

DollChica	13 Sep 2002
Quote: Who was Jesus? Jesus was a man. No more than that. Maybe he did lead an exceptional life, or maybe all the stories are exaggerations. Who knows? IMO, Jesus is comparable to Confuscious, or Homer. They were thinkers, teachers, people who stirred the soup (so to speak). That doesn't make anybody else here right or wrong. Simply because nobody knows. Cricket is dead on here. So was Umbrae. I do not believe he was divine...if he even existed at all.

Minderwiz	14 Sep 2002
Well the operative condition seems to be that we all agree its a matter of faith or belief rather than objective truth. I'm very content to leave it at that - as I said for me it's the teaching that matters not the 'God' bit, though I do enjoy exploring some of the related issues. The only time I see a problem arise is when someone claims that they possess the objective truth and believe that they have a divine right (literally) to force others to believe or try to suppress those who disagree. As soon as a branch of Christianity (or Islam or any other religion) goes dowm that route then people end up suffering for their own beliefs. Open discussion is great, enforced observance is a denial of human rights. Minderwiz

Diana	14 Sep 2002
Whoever he was - reality or myth or legend - he has left a great impact on the world. All the rest is speculation. Some of the things he supposedly said are very profound. Some of the things he supposedly did are very inspiring. I like this guy very much. He was original, he was a rebel, he was sincere, he had an ideal which was a worthy one. He has taught me much. Real or not. (P.S. I believe he was real.)

PurpleGoddess	14 Sep 2002
wow, this is AMAZING! :) just 1 pg and so many perspectives. i love this town cause we are all so accepting of each others differences and similarities. i was raised as a lutheran. i believe in both god and goddess...female/male, positive/negative...etc. so this is what i've collected on my own. jesus did exist. and after his bamtizfa (sorry, i'm gentile) he went to travel the world and learn of all the world religions. including buddga (would like to know the name of that book cause i want to know!). his most extensive training was w/the druid masters. he can walk on water, feed the multitudes w/little fish/bread and he can control the weather. gee, sounds like he's a witch to me...found website that asked the question. if jesus existed today, would he be a witch? i believe in the trinity but w/ both god/goddess. i think that jesus was sent here to send a message but not the one that is out there now...to terrorize those who don't believe what you believe in. i think that he was speaking of one religion but one that incorporated all the world religions of his time and those to come. i've gone thru battles of whether he is the Savior and my spirit tells me no...he is the messenger to teach the lesson to accept the Savior when he does come. there is a balance that needs to be made in religion, it's not that. it's a spiritual path and the acceptance of a higher power no matter how you call it. one must accept other's interpretation cause it is part of the human condition to be one but to always walk one's own path. i see hipearchy in my church because they don't practice those random acts of kindness (jade :D) that is meant to be apart of the human condition. treat others as you would want to be treated...not many practice that...i try even w/o being asked by a friend to extend my love/spirit to those in need. that is truly living in the light of the god/goddess. that is what all reiligions or spiritual paths ask of the human race. if we don't start changing our perspectives, we will either kill each other or Mother Earth will take care of that Herself...to start all over... so basically, i'm open minded to learn more of what i know a little of...including our muslim sister/brothers in this chaotic time. i know enough...that it is a peaceful religion and are not like the others who are so franatic about their beliefs. i pray for all who must walk the streets of any u.s. city that get nasty remarks or other actions against them...in ignorance. i pray for the woman and child in traditional muslim dress that they are at peace...just like jesus would! jesus is the messenger not the messiah...he would be a witch and would be ostrasized in today's society. peace and love to all in this world. who don't have the freedom i do to believe in whatever i want to believe. please know that i'm a christian/wicca...trying to find the true essence of what the god/goddess want us to learn. only then the Savior will come. peace!

Kiama	15 Sep 2002
I have two theories about JC that I adhere to: 1) The theory purpoted by Timothy Freke and Peter Gady in their two books, 'The Jesus Mysteries' and 'Jesus and the Goddess', which basically say that Jesus ws oriinally a Gnostic-Platonic mytholoical figure, and that he was created out of a blend of the Pagan beliefs o the time. 2) He did live, but wasnot the person the Bibe made him out to be. He was in fact somebdy toitally different, who actually married the Magdalena and had several children, and the Bible is actuall misinterpreted becase is as written in a special way to hide the inner techings frm those who were not 'ready'. This theory was written in 'Jesus theMan'. IN the en though, I don't mind whetheror not Jesus lived or what he realy did. I am a Pagan, and thus do not believ personally in wha the Bibl says about him risig and redeeming our sins so e may live, etc. But I DO know that I accept the wordsof the biblical Jesus as wise ones, without which I think my morality as a kid would have left much t be desired! I found that b listening to the wordsof Jesus (None of the other peopl in the Bibl however, cuz they were all pretty mixed up!), I didnt go far wrong with morality. Kiama

The who was jesus christ? thread was originally posted on 13 Sep 2002 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.