Depression?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 21 Jan 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Demonesse	21 Jan 2003
I don't know if this is the right forum, but I seem to see many people giving everyday, practical solutions to problems, so I'll ask anyway. Does anyone have any advice, whether pure common sense, medical or magical, for a close friend who is constantly depressed because she's too hard on herself? She gets so upset with herself over things which don't really matter - for example, she called me in the middle of the night and verbally abused herself because she bought something which she thought had only a 'little' defect in it, and when she got home she found the defect was actually quite noticeable, spoiling it - it was nonrefundable. She piles up regrets and "I'm such an idiot, I knew what to do and yet I messed it up" "I've made that mistake so many times before and yet I did it again" and "I should haves..." by the kilogramme (I hear these sentences almost on a daily basis). I'm worried she's heading for a major mental breakdown, so any advice would be appreciated.

Laurel	21 Jan 2003
The tragedy about depression is that healing requires a willingness on the part of the depressed person to try and heal. Most depressed people feel very, very hopeless and incapable of recovery, and this belief in their own failure becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. The best you can do, in my opinion, is send her your love and ask her to see a therapist. If making the phone call is too terrifying, you might offer to make it for her (with her sitting beside you). If she needs a car ride to her first appointment, offer to take her. Most likely, she will be prescribed an anti-depressent which can be a good thing and help stabalize her so that she was even a tennebrous foundation to then begin the real work of pulling herself from her self-created abyss. Back in the fall of '97, I let myself go into a depression that became completely debilitating and it took a year before I was willing to start letting myself heal, and I needed some real hand holding for those first baby steps, but I made it, and after those first baby steps, I regained the confidence to start walking outside, and talking to strangers, and all those other things that make up "normal" life that I was too depressed to do, back then. ~LAS

Moongold	21 Jan 2003
Without knowing much more about your friend, it is a little hard. What else is happening in her life at the moment that might contribute to the depression/negativity? Is this behaviour recent or longstanding? As her friend perhaps you could simply let her know gently that you are concerned about her. There are many ways you could do this without hurting her and it might give you more ideas about how to help her. She may need professional counselling or medical help. Perhaps you could get some information about local services that might be of use to her - a women's health service for example. In your own mind you could wish her well. Imagine her surrounded by light. for example. This kind of visualization could be positive for both of you. It certainly helps me when I'm troubled by someone and somehow enables me to act in the most positive way towards them. I think sensitive people intuit these things too and sometimes it frees them from negativity when they are with you at least. Your friend is lucky to have people who care about her. My best wishes. Moongold

Musie	21 Jan 2003
I agree, she needs counselling. She keeps leaning on you because she needs support and validation of her self - worth. On a spiritual level, she's lost her "seat of power" Governed by the sacral chakra, 2nd chakra. Along with the counselling, she may benefit having some citrine crystal and some rose quartz. A prayer to Bast or a deity with yellow/orange correspondances can help too. A pale blue candle with a prayer for healing can also help. Some spring water in a jar, covered in orange paper put out in the sunlight for 3 days or so, drink the water for a week can help. The sun will empower the water, the colour orange will also strongly infuse the water and can help heal the sacral chakra. This is part of healing with colour. She needs her self confidence. Self - negating depression runs in my family as well and I found tiger eye has helped me, but next time I am out and can get to a crystal shop, I will be picking up some citrine and some rose quartz. My mother and sister found depression medication helped them quite a bit. Also orange juice, apple juice (the gold colour, the vitamin c and being apples are sacred to the goddess) and I don't know if she lives in a winter climate, some good sunlight may also help heal her if she is prone to seasonal depression. Hope she gets better soon!

cjtarot	21 Jan 2003
Demonesse in order to be willing to heal, you have to recognize that you are depressed. I think all of us at some point in our life get there, its just a matter of identifing the symptoms and admitting that you cant control it by ourself. I don't think your friend would be too happy if you told her strait out..she would probably deny it and get a little mad at you. what you may want to try is get brochures, print outs on depression and show her, ask her if if she sees these things in you or another friend (anything just to get her to read the list of symptoms) and hope she recognizes them in herself. from there, offer support, love and a hand to hold when she finally decides to take the steps needed to heal. I can tell you from experience it takes a good loving friend to stand by someone recovering from depression. I wish you and your friend the best of luck. PS if it's a female, try to blame hormones...they are nasty little things and you maybe able to get her to a doctor that way. From there let the doc try to help her. Blessings, Cj

Woof	21 Jan 2003
If she does, encourage her to bring it up to her physician. They can give her a referral to a therapist or discuss options with her. What are her feelings on anti-anxiety and antidepressent meds? The stigma so long attached to them seem to be lifting. For some of us they have made all the difference in the world. They have completely changed the quality of my life without changing ME. If she doesn't acknowledge her problem, and you can't broach the subject with her, maybe you can encourage her to start exercising and eating correctly. Do you or does she meditate? Maybe you can start together? Or co-opt her into giving it a try. Exercise, proper diet and meditation all help the mind. They all affect body chemistry and, I believe, endorphin and seratonin production. I wish you both well. At one time or another I have been where you both are. Woof

Centaur	21 Jan 2003
Sounds like there are a lot of negative cognitions at work here, thus leading to depressed feelings. It also sounds like this may be linked to general feelings of anxiety and low self esteem. Is she stressed? Does she suffer from panic attacks? Has she had a history of depression? Has she ever been diagnosed as suffering from a mental illness? All of these things need to be addressed, and I would recommend a session of cognitive behaviour therapy (CBT) in order to address these. Cognitive behaviour therapy involves the identifying of salient negative cognitions, and then challenging them with reason and observation. This then leads to the negative cognition 'breaking' to be replaced by a more rational positive cognition. You'll find more information here:- http://www.cognitive-behavior-therapy.org/ Perhaps she could read the following book to find out some more info about depression, written by a depression sufferer himself. Solomon (2001), The Noonday Demon, Scribner. Another good one is, Thompson (2000), The Beast, DIANE Publishing company. Hope this helps!

Red Emma	21 Jan 2003
Demonesse: Actually, blaming her depression on her self abuse is kind of backwards. One of the major symtpoms of this stuff is that it lowers a person's self image to sometimes dangerous levels. What happens is, first she gets depressed then the self abuse follows. This symptom is one of the reasons depression's so dangerous. As someone who's been there, and was rescued from attempted suicide, make no mistake. Depression kills! There are several types of it and several reasons for it. Sometimes it's genetic in that in one's brain, some connections between cells are missing. Another discovery is that in some depressants, parts of the brain do not receive an adequate blood supply. Beyond that are the usual suspects, low self esteem, inability to withstand some of life's stresses, childhood abuse --- and I'm afraid there are several more. Take for instance the person who was physically, psycholoically, or even sexually abused as a child. Any one of these can destroy a person's self esteem, then put them in a stressful situation. A recipe for disaster! Get her to therapy if you have to drag her! (Yes, I know this sounds overly dramatic, and probably isn't possible [dragging her, i mean], but I wanted to really emphasize how imperative treatment is.) There are several schools of therapists, and to begin just get her to someone. If you're in the USA, (sorry, but I don't know about the training and licensing in other countries) I've found LCSW's the most effective. That's licensed clinical social workers. In some states they can practise with a master's degree, in others a Ph. D. is required. Psychologists usually work quite well, as do behaviorial clinicians. The difference (in the USA) between psychiatrists and psychologists, social workers, etc. is that psychiatrists must first become medical doctors, then follow a psychiatric specialty. Also only doctors -- psychiatrists or your own family physician -- can prescribe anti-depressants. And anti-depressants are most effective if one's problem is genetic -- a lack of connections, etc., in the brain. I understand that in many European countries, the herb, St. John's Wort is frequently used. It can be useful in cases where a person is moderately depressed. In the USA it is attainable at health food stores, some large grocery supermarkets, etc. No prescription needed. This is getting too long. I'll put more info in an addendum. Goddess Bless, Red Emma

Red Emma	21 Jan 2003
The first psychiatrist I saw -- the one who convinced me that life was worth living -- knew almost immediately what had taken me so far down. When I was a child I was taught to arrange my emotions -- not let anger, frustration, resentment, etc. "get the better of me." What that meant was that I severely repressed any unacceptable feelings. I learned that repressed emotions are the most common causes of depression. That particular psychiatrist told me, and I've found it to be true, one has to acknowledge emotions, whether society accepts them or not. He taught me to not repress anger (for instance), but to say to myself, "Yes, I'm damned angry with my stupid brother. I can't hit him, and Dad will smack me if I say anything angry to him.) What I found useful was to feel the anger for 10 minutes or so. Write about it in a journal for about 10 - 15 minutes. Then go do something else. If all else fails, go dig in the garden or wash the walls in your room. Anything to diffuse the strong emotion you feel, without EVER repressing it. Okay, no more soap box. But please remember. Do not take depression lightly. Depression really does Kill! More Goddess Blessings, Red Emma

Aoife	21 Jan 2003
I'm really anxious about saying this and I entirely agree with all that has been said but...... I just sense a sub-text here - a sense that your friend may be, in part, blaming you - along the lines of 'you know how useless I am, I keep telling you so but you're not stopping me'. I fear that unless your friend takes full ownership of her depression - and I know that's next to impossible when someone feels as she does - there's a risk that she could perceive the same about a therapist/medication. You are very clearly a most loving and loyal friend and it may be that she feels you are her only anchor. I just feel that it is so important that you take extra care of yourself - the strain you are under is very great.

Umbrae	21 Jan 2003
There’s a whole discussion that really needs to go here, about the intricacies of brain chemistry and how it works. I won’t go into it…hunt down a brain doctor. But brain chemistry is intimately tied to sleep patterns. Since the invention of electric lights, on an average, we experience 90 minutes less sleep per night. There is speculation that this is why we are experiencing higher degrees of depression, suicide, and aggressive behavior nowadays. Sleep cycles are 90 minutes in length…we are missing one entire sleep cycle. These cycles actually allow our brain to ‘chemically reset’. So one begins to battle depression by assuring a minimum of 8 hours sleep per night. Stress, generalized anxiety, post-traumatic stress disorders upset this cycle with inability to fall asleep, or interrupted sleep patters, furthering the underlying issues.

Centaur	21 Jan 2003
Very interesting Umbrae. It reminds me of something I read a while back with regards to 'power' naps. According to 'scientists', the first twenty minutes or so of sleep is the most restorative; therefore many organisations are encouraging executives to take 'power' naps during the day. I dunno if that even ties in, but it's interesting!

amyel	21 Jan 2003
Everyone has very valuable suggestions here, and I'd like to echo what Laurel said: when you are in a state of depression, you are also in a state of hopelessness, helplessness and sometimes even anger. To expect your friend to have the wherewithall to take the initiative and help herself is unrealistic, because she just doesn't think she is worth it. The best thing that happened to me was when a good friend extended her hand, and told me that she had suffered from depression for years, and gently - but firmly - told me I needed help. Friends up to then had decided it was "just Amyel" - some could handle it and some walked away. But this friend was the only one who recognized and extended herself, by opening up to me and no doubt bringing up some painful memories, in order to ensure I got the help I needed. I went to my dr., went on medication and started the healing road. That was several years ago now, but I can still remember the way I felt before I got help and the way I felt after the meds had a chance to work. Depression can be helped. Take a deep breath and decide how much you can help your friend. Phone calls where she berates herself are frustrating to you and don't actually help her, and expend alot of energy on your part while you try to pull her out of her state. I know you want to help your friend, but if it comes to the point where you just don't want to be with her, or dread her calls, then you aren't helping her at all. So, be realistic about how much and what you are willing to do. As Aoife said, you need to take extra care of yourself.

Moongold	22 Jan 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Umbrae There’s a whole discussion that really needs to go here, about the intricacies of brain chemistry and how it works...... I won’t go into it…hunt down a brain doctor....... But brain chemistry is intimately tied to sleep patterns. This is significant and it is good to see it mentioned here, There is a very good book The promise of sleep by William C. Dement. Delcorte, NY, 1999. The necessity for sleep is underestimated when lookking at emotional well being. Moongold

Demonesse	22 Jan 2003
Thank you all for your suggestions and support, but I don't think she'll be going to a therapist anytime soon. Over here, what psychiatrists, counselors, etc we do have don't seem cut it. She did try a psychiatrist once - she poured out her feelings, and what did he say? "Hmm. Clinical depression. Take these (pills) once a day after meals. Next, please." Naturally she's sworn off therapists - she felt like a total fool. There's nothing happening in her life that is terribly depressing, but I think study pressure may be getting to her, because she keeps putting off her work, and also because she's a loner by nature - tries but doesn't relate to many people; she tells me she feels "fake" when she tries to be all perky and happy and be interested in things others seem to love. Red Emma: I'm not blaming her depression on her self abuse; rather the other way round. The self abuse is one of the behaviour patterns she regularly exhibits. I think she may be a bit manic depressive- one moment she can be totally chirpy and happy; then when something, no matter how minor, happens to darken her day, she crumbles into herself and turns extremely angry and unhappy - imagine a volcano spilling over with self-loathing. Aoife: She DOES blame everyone around her, and herself most of all when she's down - and gets all apologetic and guilty about it later. Umbrae: Yes, I myself (as you know) have come to realize sleep is extremely important.

Alex	22 Jan 2003
more serious. A personality disorder, bpd for example... and depression is co-morbid. Watch out because some of these people tend to drag others down into their black holes which no amount of friendship, care and help can even begin to fill. Sorry for being so negative but I've had some deal of experience with personality disorders and cia ... Too much attention and care from your part will enhance her attention-seeking behaviour beyond what you can possibly tolerate. Better set strict rules such as "don't call me in the middle of the night unless it's something VERY important" and make sure she knows about 911 or whatever emergency number in the place where you live. Alex. Quote: Originally posted by Demonesse Aoife: She DOES blame everyone around her, and herself most of all when she's down - and gets all apologetic and guilty about it later.

Athara	26 Jan 2003
I myself have suffered from a depression for 7 years, and had several mental breakdowns, even very strong suicidal feelings. I had the exact same thing your friend has. I bought something with a little defect in it? I got panic attacks. I once felt very bad for a week because I had dropped my keychain and the glass had a little rip in it. Terrible, isn't it? Since half a year, it's over. This is why. I have developed some rules: 1. What is done, what has happened, can't be undone. It's as simple as that. Whether you feel bad about it or not, worrying wont help you. It'll only make you feel worse. Worrying about something is as useful as solving a mathematical problem by eating a peanutbutter sandwich. It just doesn't make sense. 2. You'll have to accept the past. Whether it's small things, like buying something with a small defect in it, or big things, like having a huge fight with your boyfriend. It has happened (see 1) and can't be undone. The best you can do is try to fix this. 3. I began to believe in purpose. Maybe that big fight brought us closer together, or made clear that we don't belong together and so prevented worse. Maybe you'd feel bad about the broken thing you've bought, but if someone else had bought it, (s)he might have felt worse. You buying it prevented that. Believe that the things that are done or that happened, were for a higher purpose. This believe brought peace in my mind, and that peace is the one thing a depressed person needs so badly... I hope your friend might get some help from this rules. Please PM me if you need more help. If you'd like to, I can give you my emailadress... Good luck, Athara

meatbox666	30 Jan 2003
I agree with Alex and Athara(sp). Dump your friend. How can you be sure that she would not dump you if you were in the same position? You cannot be sure so just dump her; you are supposed too.

Demonesse	30 Jan 2003
Meatbox666: I sincerely doubt that what Athara is saying is "Dump her", though I can understand Alex's point of view. Loyalty is something I value very highly as it's a commodity lacking these days; also, I owe her much for things she has done for me (at great expense and trouble to herself) in the past. I suspect that you answer so in an attempt to make yourself seem controversial and project "attitude"; but I will answer accordingly, anyhow. I would much rather dump you into a pool of great white sharks and laugh cheerfully as your flesh is ravaged to crimson bits. That's the respect your answer commands. :)

Alex	31 Jan 2003
was to draw clear boundaries with her friend, Meat. I hope that didn't come accross as a suggestion to "bump" the person. Alex.

Sea Sprite	31 Jan 2003
Hi Demonesse, I can relate to what your friend is feeling when she says all that. I come from a dysfunctional family; verbal/physical/emotional abuse was hurled on me on a daily basis. Even to this day, I get the verbal abuse by phone or in person. This morning I got it by phone...LOL. So you see, the abuse is lifelong. So whenever I catch myself screwing up even the most trivial things, I come down hard on myself cuz my family ain't around to do it. I say the things to myself that I expect my family normally would say to me. For instance, I bought an item and didn't check it or the receipt before getting home and then discover it was the wrong size and I didn't get the discount on my receipt when I get home. I'll yell at myself, " You know you should've inspected the item and checked your receipt before you left the store! You're a complete *expletive* screw up, you can't even *expletive* do anything right!" Oh, it doesn't stop there. I get mad at others too. "You know that only *expletive* imbeciles work at that store! That dumb *expletive*! " I'd let the little stupid things people do and say get to me. I wake up happy and then someone says something to me that makes me upset for the rest of the day; I'll replay the events over and over in my mind so that I will not forget; punishing myself. Or cuz I didn't win the lotto, I'm upset for the day, I'll cuss myself out the whole day. I've even contemplated suicide on a number of occasions but even that, I will cuss myself out for; telling myself that I was too incompetent to do it correctly. Since I couldn't afford to see a psychiatrist/pyschologist; I went to see a priest about my problem. When I started telling him of all pain I was feeling; tears started rolling down my face like a dam gave way. The priest said to me that I needed to get away from the source of abuse which was my family and to take control of my own life. I can choose to be Sad or I can choose to be Happy. He prayed for me to find the strength and courage to take steps to claim back my own life. At the very least, your friend should read some self help books. Some books that I've found to be inspiring and helpful are: Healing with the Angels (Doreen Virtue) Messages from your Angels (Doreen Virtue) Life Makeovers (Cheryl Richardson) this is on my US Trades board. ;) Today, suicide is not even a consideration when things aren't working out the way I'd like them to be. I still fight with my demons (negative thoughts, feelings) occasionally, the negative thought that would pop into my head. Whenever I catch myself doing this, I will stop and correct the negativity. I choose to be happy! :) No one can make a person change. He/she must make the choice. Sea Sprite :CL

meatbox666	01 Feb 2003
Oooh Demoness, that was so weak. Just the same as you are allowing yourself to be pyschically vampirized by your friend and not being aware. As a matter of fact do not dump her, let her continue to sponge off all of your energy until you curse one another unwittingly because of insecurities. She even makes you feel sorry for her too for sponging off of your energy based on your reply about her helping you in hard times. I will see the affects of that curse, because sooner more than later you will be right back on this board telling all of your woes and fears.

meatbox666	01 Feb 2003
Sea Sprite I am a cosmetologist. Well, I am going to school for it now. Do you try to look your best everyday? Do you apply lipstick, eyeshadow, etc? Do you treat yourself to manicures and pedicures and go shopping? I say this because if you look good you will feel great. I recall in your comment that you cursed yourself out. Try to improve your appearance if you do not do this already. That will help also along with the self help books.

Athara	01 Feb 2003
Quote: Originally posted by meatbox666 I agree with Alex and Athara(sp). Dump your friend. How can you be sure that she would not dump you if you were in the same position? You cannot be sure so just dump her; you are supposed too. I was, indeed, not advising to dump her, but to tell her the things I wrote...

New River	03 Feb 2003
I'm not too sure i have anything to add to the advice given here by others concerning getting some medical help. i have battled depression for years without even knowing it. but sooner or later it demands to be addressed whether by escalating to panic attacks that lead you to the ER thinking you are having a heart attack or worse, inflicting pain on someone else you care about. sometimes it is a good thing to be alone while you are going thru depressions. the last thing you want to hear is someone saying, "Oh snap out of it", or "You are just lazy and want attention." these things are so far from the truth. when in the midst of a depression you feel like no one understands how you feel so the best thing to do is to blame everything on yourself. we are taught that it is our fault and that we are the only ones who can do anything about it. in some cases, this may be true. but if you truly do have a chemical imbalance there is no amount of self help that can pull you out of it. medications on the market today are truly lifesavers when it comes to clinical depression. keep in mind, that medications for depression are different from medications meant for bi-polar or manic depression. only a dr. can diagnose the difference between the two. and the first medication may not be the right one. many of the more spiritual and new age believers, myself included, thought that taking medication was a sign of weakness in myself. after all, it was my problem, i should be able to fix it. my daughter suffered from manic depression which i did not know. i wrongly assumed it was the usual teenaged angst. until she committed suicide, feeling, i'm sure, that no one understood what she was going thru. i have learned since then that these conditions are hereditary. maybe your friend has someone else in her family who have suffered from this same condition. we are lucky that the stigma attached to such conditions are lifting as far as society is concerned. lastly, when i find myself being too hard on myself, making harsh judgements about my choices, i ask myself how i would treat a friend who has just made the same choice. would i berate her for making such a small mistake? if not, then why be so hard on myself for the same thing. love and blessings, New River

Alex	03 Feb 2003
New River, I'm so sorry to hear that. My ex-husband attempted suicide and I can't recall having gone through worst pain in life when he so did. He's borderline and bipolar. He used suicide threats so often to manipulate me that after a while I didn't believe anymore, he would do it. Then he did it. Unfortunately as far as chaemical imbalance there seems to be nothing that helps some people. Paxil, Effexor, Prozac, Selexa, you name it. He tried them all. They only made him more aggressive, more depressive and more suicidal. Regards Alex. Quote: Originally posted by New River my daughter suffered from manic depression which i did not know. i wrongly assumed it was the usual teenaged angst. until she committed suicide, feeling, i'm sure, that no one understood what she was going thru. i have learned since then that these conditions are hereditary. maybe your friend has someone else in her family who have suffered from this same condition.

Demonesse	04 Feb 2003
meatbox: Um, what was that again? Yawn. Let me clarify. Some of us don't see "friend dumping" as a way to live one's life. Come one fine day, you'll feel like a cowardly **** for having run out on a friend. Obviously, I'm not going to bare my neck to be "psychically vampirised" for every Thomasina, Doreen and Henrietta. But I do believe exceptions should be made for exceptional people, and I am the sole judge of whether or not a person is exceptional to me. Allow me to decide whether or not I am strong enough to help; allow me to decide if your suggestion was at best thoughtlessly offhand, at worse, blunderingly offensive. To all others, especially SeaSprite: Thank you for sharing your experiences; you have all helped me.

DarkChild	04 Feb 2003
i agree with a lot of what has been said here (excluding meatbox666 :mad: ) one thing that i have not read here (which maynot happen but could) is that after you confront your friend and try to make them see their own depression; your friend may not agree with you or may not want to see it, so they might lie to you and tell you that thet're getting help and start 'faking' it around you. this might happen especially if you push the subject with them, they might become agrivated with you, but don't want to lose you as a friend so they creat a 'im so happy, everything in my life is perfect' persona in front of you and others. wich in turn, usually makes thing worse all around. hopefully your friend wont do this, but i have encountered it before. good luck demonesse

Moongold	05 Feb 2003
Greetings Demonesse, I saw this thread was still active and thought I'd just say something else, although I've already posted. Firstly, I am really glad that people stuck by me 25 years ago when I was in quite a bad way. Their non-judgemental care and friendship kept me alive. After my recovery began and with it the commencement of another journey, I began to work with others in a self-help group. Those women became and remain my dearest friends. One of them struggled for many years and one night she became quite disturbed and violent. I left, angry and tempted to give up, but sought some advice from a wise man. He said to me Moongold, she'll recover in her God's time, not yours. This released me from myself and I was able to go on loving and being with her without feeling obligated, responsible or upset. She had a very different recovery from mine but one that was right for her and has a really good life today. She is still one of my dearest friends. Your friend is lucky to have you and you will know what is right for you to do. I hope that you will both find a way to keep travelling together. Blessings, Moongold

Moongold	05 Feb 2003
Quote: Originally posted by New River my daughter suffered from manic depression which i did not know. i wrongly assumed it was the usual teenaged angst. until she committed suicide, feeling, i'm sure, that no one understood what she was going thru. i have learned since then that these conditions are hereditary. maybe your friend has someone else in her family who have suffered from this same condition. we are lucky that the stigma attached to such conditions are lifting as far as society is concerned. lastly, when i find myself being too hard on myself, making harsh judgements about my choices, i ask myself how i would treat a friend who has just made the same choice. would i berate her for making such a small mistake? if not, then why be so hard on myself for the same thing. love and blessings, New River Hello New River, I just read your post now. It is hard to lose someone like this, isn't it? My younger sister committed suicide some time ago now. It was hard enough for us, but acutely painful for my Mother who died a short time later herself. She was much older than you. Whatever the situation, people do make their own choices and my sister asked that we respect hers. We did but the loss was still terrible. I very much like your approach to managing things when you are in the grip of depression. Thanks for sharing that. Moongold

DarkChild	05 Feb 2003
another thing that is important, i think, is that if and when she overcomes her depression it is very hard not to fall back into her old pattern, epecially when things get tough... i think it is at this time that a freind to turn to is most important... my best friend, really my only true friend, is going through some really hard times right now, just the other night she over dosed on some pills (attempting suicide) but thank god was unsuccessful in her attempt. it it is even harder for me to be there for her, and try and help her because she lives in Vermont and i live in Arizona... and the only communication we have is e-mail and my yearly visit for a few days in the summer..:( and because ive already gone through all that (deppresion, suicide attempts, and being completly alone and having no one to turn to..) it's really hard for me to think about losing her because i know she doesn't have anybody to turn to in her family or town.....and i know that shes stronger then all of this, and i don't want to lose her.. i guess i should explain my side a little more...deep breath...exhale.....ok, im ready, a few years ago (@ 7th grade) when i was going through all this: short and sweet version: several suicide attempts, self mutilation, drug abuse, running away, really hard times, and my family was completly oblivious to what was going on (i hid it very well) and they just though i was hiting the 'teenage years' and it was nothing. after my parents found out about a possible suicide attempt of mine (still not quite sure how that happened) and confronted me about it, i told them a bunch of lies and began to 'fake it' in front of them so they, and everybody else, would beleive i was happy; i wasn't by any stretch of the imagination, but i t was a little after that, that i bagan to think and i finally 'opened my eyes' to what was happening. i didn't want to talk to my parents, family, or anybody else about it, but i knew i needed to talk to someone, so a gathered up enough courage and told the only person i trusted, my best freind; and she was there for me...she's the sole reason im still living right now and havn't fallen back into my old 'habbits.' she's helped me a lot over the past few years..especially when it came to telling people about my past..a while ago she was trying to get me to tell my parents about everything but she knew that i wasn't ready so she droped it... ive rambled on to long, and have forgotten what my original point was... oh yes, friends, they are very important to have..... thank you all for bearing with me... hope everything turns out for the best

Red Emma	05 Feb 2003
Dark Electric, I think you're handling your friend just right. It's really hard for people who have gone through all the burning hells of depression, and know what the pitfalls are, to know how to help a friend. If there's no chance to get her into therapy, I don't know anything else you can do. However, there are a lot of very smart people on this board...maybe someone else will have a suggestion. Best wishes to you and your friend. Goddess Bless, Red Emma

Moongold	06 Feb 2003
Quote: Originally posted by DarkChild oh yes, friends, they are very important to have..... You're right, Dark Child, and she knows that you love her. Those e-mails would be so important to her. Hand written letters are good too - something more personal about them - and the occasional phone call if you can. Stay well yourself, because that would be really important to her as well. Warmest regards, Moongold

anjocoxo	06 Feb 2003
I don't know if anyone remembers, but my mother has been ill, her body aching everywhere, I even thought it was some kind of spell, sincethe doctors couldn't find out what was wrong with her. Finally, she went to another doctor two days ago who told her she is having a depression, which means that her pains are real, but they have a psychologycal background. She is taking medication (prozac included) and I don't know what to do. We have to be really careful with depression; I truly thought people that have depressions feel really bad, low and crying and moaning all the time, but my mother looked happy most of the time, the only problem was the "physical" pains in her body. I'm thinking about giving her a reiki treatment (I have a friend who does them), but I'm still in shock with this... We have to stand by people who are depressed (either friends or family), because they really need help (even though they don't admit it) Strenght and love... those are the key words. Anjo

Red Emma	06 Feb 2003
Dear Anjo--- I hope you guys aren't getting sick of good old RE talking about depression, however it's been my "luck" to be plagued with it ---IN ITS VARIOUS FORMS (emphasis for Anjo) --- for most of my adult life. I'm hoping that my experience can help other people with this miserable stuff since it can also be very complicated. Could I ask whether your mother is getting therapy along with her medications? The combination of drugs and therapy has been shown to be the most effective treatment. The kind of depression you describe, the tears and angst, is only one form of the stuff. Other people have what seems to be extremely, extremely low energy which is what I'm the most familiair with. I sincerley believe that it manifests itself in others, such as your mother, in various other ways. With myself, I've found that the fatigue sets in when I'm feeling powerless in some situation. Recently I've discovered that fear -- which seems to be deeply imbedded in my psyche, left over from a very destructive, abusive father -- is also involved. For myself, the key to ridding myself of the fatigue, is to discover what I'm feeling powerless or fearful about. Then face that feeling as related to that incident. If anyone on these boards would like to PM me, I'm quite willing to talk about this stuff in any way which could be helpful to others. Best wishes to your mother, anyone else in that situation. Goddess Bless, Red Emma

DarkChild	06 Feb 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Moongold You're right, Dark Child, and she knows that you love her. Those e-mails would be so important to her. Hand written letters are good too - something more personal about them - and the occasional phone call if you can. Stay well yourself, because that would be really important to her as well. every once in a while, when i have the $$ (for stamps) and i know that one of us isn't going to be able to use the computer, then ill send her a letter or two... i would call her, i used to every once in awhile, but our family no longer has long distance. i know that by me staying 'strong' through all of this is really important, and its really hard due to all the harassments and school bull **** thats going on right now, but im still gonna try real hard.....

Demonesse	07 Feb 2003
another thing that is important, i think, is that if and when she overcomes her depression it is very hard not to fall back into her old pattern, epecially when things get tough... i think it is at this time that a freind to turn to is most important... ---DarkChild We have to stand by people who are depressed (either friends or family), because they really need help (even though they don't admit it) --Anjocoxo Very, very true! People who have this mindset are truly friends to be appreciated. I'm not saying you should wear yourself out to the bone caring for them and worrying about them, but a little help sometimes goes a long way, as many wonderful people here know.

Athara	07 Feb 2003
Yes, the most important thing is to not let them down, but without draining yourself... When I suffered from the depression, the main reason for the automutilation and even suicide attempts were when I felt let down by people whom I considered friends. I did that because I felt guilty, useless, just plainly wrong. So the point is to find balance: not letting the depressed down, but still make sure that you won't get sucked in... Good luck all, and remember that things will be alright... Just try to believe it. Athara

The Depression? thread was originally posted on 21 Jan 2003 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.