A question on death

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 12 Feb 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Osher	12 Feb 2003
Sorry, for the morbid title, but: A friend of mine asked me the following, if anyone can comment, I'd be most grateful: A few years ago her father died. Previously they had always argued, but in the year or so before he died things became much better between them. However, on the last time she saw him, the goodbye was different. The way he acted, and waved them off was different. The next morning she was called to be told her father had died in a freak accident. There was no way he could have 'known' he was going to die, yet his manner changed. She put this to one side, until she heard from others about similiar incidents. My friend would like to know if this is common, and do people 'know' something is going to happen?

Athara	12 Feb 2003
I believe that that is possible. His intuition might have told him so, in order to give him the opportunity to prepare himself for it, even if he didn't know it consciously... In what way was that goodbye different?

Umbrae	12 Feb 2003
A very similar incident, or pre-death behavioral change was noticed just prior to the death of my best friend. Also a freak accident. I believe that some folks ‘know’, on a higher level. Most likely they do not see their behavior as ‘different’.

theredhead	12 Feb 2003
I knew someone who had a dream that she would die in a car accident. She told a very close friend to tell her husband, if it ever happened it was ok, she knew about it ahead of time. I got to know her for about a year, her first child was born, she was a very loving, giving, spiritual person. She died a year later in a car accident, her husband was driving. She knew, and in looking back she spent that year reaching, giving, sharing and holding that precious baby girl (who she did not get to see grow up) very closely. I hadn't thought of that in years, still hurts to think about it trh

Major Tom	12 Feb 2003
My Dad died in June 1992. I last saw him in January of the same year. Did I know he was going to die that year? Well, yes...I did. He had changed - Anyway, yes you can know. })

zorya	12 Feb 2003
my story is a little different, but i think it relates to "knowing" ahead of time and perhaps to death being predetermined to some degree..... my grandmother (who was psychic) knew she would probably die, as she had cancer. one day she asked her twin sister to write down a series of numbers and keep them. she did not say (or know?) what they were for. months later she died. the numbers were the same as the month, day, hour and minute of her death. this was a year before i was born but i was able to talk to several witnesses who confirmed the story.

lunalafey	12 Feb 2003
As said before, a person may act and feel differently because thier time has come. Some known that this is to come, others notice the difference but do not know why it is.... I had a boyfriend who called me one night...the tone in his voice was not right, we where both a little sick so I brushed it off...yet something nagged at me....I felt that something was wrong. The next night I unexpectadly burst into tears and asked the Great Spirit to keep him safe. The next day he was to come spend the weekend with me....he never showed up.....He is a 4 year old unsolved mystery.....his truck found in the middle of no-where, every personal belonging in tact, keys in the ignition. I have few friends that have had dreams of a family member or friend that comes to them at the time of thier death.

Mimers	12 Feb 2003
I have to agree with everyone else. My father died when I was rather young. He had Cancer and I am sure he knew he would die, but as a young girl, I never thought that he would. 2 weeks or so before he died, I realized he was going to die very soon. Maybe this is a little, different, because this was not an accident, It is just that I really had no idea that he was going to die, my little girl mind wouldn't accept it. Suddenly it just did. Suddenly I just realized he was going to die soon. Then, the night before he died, when I kissed him good night, I knew he was going to die the next day. I went to bed an cried. I don't remember this, but my sister asked me why I was crying and I told her that Daddy was going to die tomorrow. He did pass away the next day. It is hard to explain, but it was kind of like "in the air" so to speak. I could feel it in the air and when I bent over to kiss him, the feeling of it overwhelmed me. I looked at him, and I know he knew, he knew I knew. To go off on a tangent here, I want to share how I felt my father's presence in the house many times after he died. I know he was sticking around because he was worried about us. My Mom after a couple of years started dating again, and it was when she started dating my step-father, that I stopped sensing this. I think he knew that we were going to be OK from then on. (I have a wonderful step father. I call him Pa, that couldn't love us more even if we were his own) :) Sorry if this spooks some people. Mimers

Karenwhe	12 Feb 2003
Yes, I tend to agree that folks know when it is time. My grandfather was sick of Alzheimer (spelling??) for 6 years. In my grandmothers last visit to the hospital he was totally lucid and not for a few minutes but for an hour or so. He knew everything (he was himself), my grandmother took it as a shock at the beginning she couldn’t understand. Then spoke to him about everything and everyone, she knew that it was the end, kind of the update before he goes. Next morning she got a call - he died at midnight. And the worst thing of all he died on her birthday.

Karenwhe	12 Feb 2003
Another example that really gave me the shivers, was with the Israeli astronaut that died. This was published in the Israeli media. When the space shuttle took off his wife and five year old daughter watched the take off. Half way in the sky his daughter said "oh no, I lost my daddy". This one I just can't forget.

amyel	12 Feb 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Karenwhe My grandfather was sick of Alzheimer (spelling??) for 6 years. In my grandmothers last visit to the hospital he was totally lucid and not for a few minutes but for an hour or so. He knew everything (he was himself), my grandmother took it as a shock at the beginning she couldn’t understand. Then spoke to him about everything and everyone, she knew that it was the end, kind of the update before he goes. Next morning she got a call - he died at midnight. And the worst thing of all he died on her birthday. Karenwhe, I have heard about this from several folks who have lost loved ones to Alzheimers'. When I was in my mid-early 20's, I was dating a young man who was in the military. He went away on manoevers for 6 weeks, and suddenly, one night, I just "had" to write him a letter. My cat started meowing and pawing at the balcony door, and I swear to this day that I saw his reflection in the glass. It was so odd and sudden, I even noticed the time on the clock. The next morning, I received a call from the local army chaplin. He came over and told me Vic had died. The only reason I was even notified was because just the weekend before, we had gone to meet his family, and they told the chaplin that I must be told. A few days later I looked at the clock. It had stopped at the time I was told he had died. Unfortunatley for me, I often seem to have a premention of death. I knew when my grandfather, father & step-mother passed. Just *knew*. Can't explain it more then that. I'd like to have premonitions of happier upcoming events, but no, just death. So I figure that it is very likely that some people have a sense of the shift in their souls. Maybe they don't know what it means, exactly - or maybe they just block it out of ignorance or fear.

Moongold	12 Feb 2003
My parents were married for 50 years when my Mother died on Christmas Day, 1991. That day was also Dad's birthday. Dad was frail but proud and lived independently for another 8 or so months. One day, after Mass, he told my brother-in-law that he didn't want to end up like some of his even frailer old mates. His grand daughter, whom he had not seen for many years visited him that evening, and stayed for hours. He talked with her a lot about himself and his own family. Later that night he peacefully died in his sleep. He was curled up in an almost foetal position and looked completely peaceful. We think he knew at a deep level and simply let go. Moongold

Aerin	13 Feb 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Happiness My friend would like to know if this is common, and do people 'know' something is going to happen? Slightly different, but related: I have lost three close relatives to forms of cancer. In each case, I can exactly pinpoint the time when they either knew or maybe decided to go - and it wasn't anything to do with when the medics said they would. For example, my aunt was thought to be getting better when she asked the nurses to send for her family. She'd been up that morning, had a bath, seemed more energetic than for some days. The nurses didn't do anything fast, they thought she was fussing because all signs were good. Then, suddenly, she died that afternoon having put some final papers in order. My uncle prepared his will and signed it the same day that he lapsed into a coma and was rushed to hospital. There was no reason for him to have done it that day as against any other. He did come around after a week (against all expectations) for a few days, and as soon as he found out he was too weak for further treatment he lapsed back and died. My dad spent a long time saying goodbye to us just befor his final operation, and he didn't come round from the anaesthetic - we spent a week with him in a coma and it wasn't until we said goodbye and went to take a short break that he died. I think he was waiting for us to leave. So yes, and I don't think it is true of everyone to be aware for sudden death. One reason why I am now more mindful than I have ever been of being complete with people as much of the time as possible e.g. never leaving bad feelings unresolved. Aerin

Emily	13 Feb 2003
I think my Dad knew that he was going to die, or he knew that there was something really wrong with him. In the last few weeks of his life, before he went into hospital, he saw the reflection of his Grandmother who had died when he was a teenager, in one of the bedroom windows. A couple of days later he was rushed into hospital first on the ward then into the Intensive Care Unit where he was heavily sedated and never regained conciousness. But before he was took into ICU he spent a week on the wards being assessed, We visited him the night he collapsed and he talked about a book my brother in law had given him to read, he said he wished he knew how it was going to end and could I make sure my brother in law got the book back, I thought it was strange that he should say something like that, he manner was different, he wanted me to make sure to tell mom that he loved her. I came away from that visit pretty shaken, Dad collapsed five minutes after we left, Mom never got to see him concious again and he died a week later. I still think he knew that he was going to die.

rostie	14 Feb 2003
i can't say it about people but i knew it about one of our cats in the last weeks before he died there was a day, a sunday i believe, it was a celebration of something, lot of people were there at home with us, and our cat (snorreke), a more wild cat, mostly of the time outside in the garden, came to sit with me silently and very sereen, he never did this before, i immediatly had the feeling there was something wrong, he's going to die too (on of our cats died a time ago from cancer) it was such a peacefull moment, and a few weeks later we saw the symptoms, and let him sleap in... i'll never forgot that moment...

Kazz	14 Feb 2003
Amazing stories. My stepfather had cancer and was put into hospital on the day he died. My mum and I were with him all evening and into the morning. At about mid morning some close relatives finally arrived from afar to see him and told my mum and I to go home and get some sleep, we were reluctant to go as we wanted to just stay with him, but my mum was a wreck so I took her home. The last of the relatives arrived at our home and needed me to direct them to the hospital, so I drove them there but just dropped them off and for some reason didn't go back into the hospital. I was in a strange panic to get home to mum, and just drive directly back home. On the way about 2 streets away, the time was around 11.05am, my car just stalled, completely stopped, I tried to start it ...nothing!, then another turn of the key, it started with no trouble (never done that before). I got home and my mum came out to greet me and saidd the hospital just called and said that my stepfather had passed away at about 11.05am. Mum and I were with him all night and until mid morning of that day, and I think he just hung on until ALL the family had got there before he let go...and my car to stall at the same time he had died, was to let me know. We wish we didn't leave the hospital as we really wanted to stay, but I think he wanted us to go as we had had our time with him and the nurses said that he wasn't aware of his surroundings and family after we had left anyway. Cheers Kazz :TQC

Aerin	14 Feb 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Kazz We wish we didn't leave the hospital as we really wanted to stay, but I think he wanted us to go as we had had our time with him and the nurses said that he wasn't aware of his surroundings and family after we had left anyway. That's interesting, because both my dad and my uncle died when family had gone to take a break. Come to think of it, my grandmother died when she was on her own after having spoken to my mum - mum went to get some tea and when she came back my grandmother had gone. I think she wanted to as well, hard to bury one of your children (my uncle). My mum has a theory that sometimes when family are all around the person hangs on so as not to die when they are there. as if staying for others and not for their own sake. I don't know if that's the case, although it has been my experience. Aerin

amyel	14 Feb 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Aerin That's interesting, because both my dad and my uncle died when family had gone to take a break. Come to think of it, my grandmother died when she was on her own after having spoken to my mum - mum went to get some tea and when she came back my grandmother had gone. I think she wanted to as well, hard to bury one of your children (my uncle). My mum has a theory that sometimes when family are all around the person hangs on so as not to die when they are there. as if staying for others and not for their own sake. I don't know if that's the case, although it has been my experience. Aerin Yeah, a similar thing happened with my step mum. I was actually in transit to see her before she died - she was in Australia, I was already in Ottawa, so it was about a 32 hour travel time to ge there. Anyway, I was in Honalulu, waiting to change planes, and I thought, I should call the hospital to tell them to tell my step mom I'm coming (she had asked me not to come at first, but I knew I couldn't not come as we were very close). I had the phone in hand, and as clear as day, as voice said "Don't call - you don't want to know", so I didn't. I arrived in Sydney about 8 or 9 am and got through customs, etc. I made my way to the domestic interflight connection, and one of my cousins was on the flight with her husband and son. She sat with me on the flight and as we took off, she told me my step-mum had passed during the night - I'm horrid with time zones, especially while in transit, but I think she had passed during my lay-over in Honalulu, waiting for the connecting flight. Maybe it was her who told me not to call, I don't know. I found out later that several other cousins had been with her until late in the evening and she had sent them home; and she had told one of them to tell me she loved me, but she didn't want me to see her like that (she died of second hand somke - lung cancer). I definietly think some people know, and perhaps even choose to pass alone. Maybe it's easier for them, I don't know. Maybe they feel they've said their good-byes. I only hope when it is my turn I am at peace, too.

New River	15 Feb 2003
i found this thread to be so interesting and compelling. i think it is good that we are able to share these experiences. it may take some of the mystery out of death. i mean, look, it seems we have all experienced these 'knowings' before losing a loved one. i experienced with my grampa the last time he came to visit us. when he was pulling out of the drive way he put out an arm to wave goodbye and i suddenly knew it was the last time i would see him alive. he died a few months later in Texas where he was living at the time. a few days before our daughter died we were doing an art project at the kitchen table when she suddenly said to me, "well, you don't need me anymore." i was so stunned by this i didn't know what to say at first. i soon recovered and told her i would Always need her! she died 3 days later. my best friend lost her son in a car accident just 2 months ago, Dec. 7th. they own a towing company and got the call for an accident with fatalities. they both looked at each other and the father left to go to the site. it was their own son. my friend insists that some part of her knew it was him. not only that but she admitted knowing it was coming 'without really knowing.' i am wondering if this precognition is connected with us planning our lives on the other side before we come here. perhaps there is a part of our spirit's subconscious that remembers when we have planned our exits? love and blessings, New River

cheekyminx	16 Feb 2003
Wow! I'm glad I read this thread. Very interesting. I can't say I have any anything to add to it, except that I too have lost a loved one. "I know my dad is looking after me. I love you lots dad & miss u"

Kazz	16 Feb 2003
Quote: Originally posted by New River i am wondering if this precognition is connected with us planning our lives on the other side before we come here. perhaps there is a part of our spirit's subconscious that remembers when we have planned our exits? love and blessings, New River You know...I have been wondering about that myself, and I also think that at some point, we have all seen some kind of prediction (subconciously) in regards to our own death, but, of course, never remembering this, as it would be too traumatic. New River, I think this is very interesting!! thankyou for sharing your thoughts. Cheers Kazz :TQC

Kismet	18 Feb 2003
My experience with death has lead me to believe that yes, sometimes people do have an inkling as to their time in this rhelm ending. I'm curious as to why some are aware and some are not? Love and Light, Kismet

RAVENAL	19 Feb 2003
I had seen/sensed the death of my grandmother who raised me...she came to me 2 weeks prior and asked for my approval...she came again a few months after her death too... my mother died when I was 4 and I had "The White Lady" come to tell me she would be leaving a few months before it happened...it occured when I had my first experience with death...I found a small dead bird and was trying really heard to wake it up so I could see it fly...I knew something was wrong...and then she was just there floating about a foot off the ground...shinging golden white...we talked about the little bird and I cried and asked her to fix it...but she was very patient and loving explaining that it 's time was finished here and it needed to be elsewhere...just like my mom...I forgot about it for years until my aunt brought it up when I was a teenager...she said I often talked to "The White Lady" as a child...I've read of others who have seen this image which often fortells of a death... both my husband and I sensed the exact time his father died...we were not together...but we both knew at that moment his Dad was thinking of leaving...but wanted us to release him...my husband had a premonition of my grandmothers death about 6 mths before it happened also...he had a premonition of a cousins death as a child as well...I can't remember where I heard this but...people usually make the decision to die and begin preparing about five years before...

DarkElectric	25 Feb 2003
Funny this should come up. From recent personal experience, I would have to say yes. Depending on the circumstances, maybe. Freak accidents notwithstanding, but, mine was in the case of illness. I haven't been well for a while, but recently there was a turn of events which catipulted me down the slippery slope of virtually no return. I also knew I was going to die. I wrote out a will, it wasn't the most legal document, but it would hold up in court as being the only available thing. I left everything to my mum, and drove myself to hospital. My hemoglobin count was 6, (normal is between 12 and 15) due to the massive haemorrage I had suffered several days before. I live by myself, and was too wiped out to get treatment when it happened. (My bad.) I also didn't take it that seriously, and nearly paid with my life. People say that when you're young you think you'll live forever. This is true, I can vouch for that. This attitude frequently interferes with common sense. But it soon became apparent that I wasn't going to get any better, and if I delayed any longer, it would be the end. I tried to look a little bit ahead, and saw only grey mist instead of the rest of the week. When I arrived, I was admitted immediately. However, no one was convinced that I would make it. I had to have a blood transfusion, and emergency surgery to save my life. The Dr did the surgery as a last ditch. If she didn't do it, I would die. No question, transfusion or not. I was bleeding to death, and the offending organ needed removal. It was 80-20 that I would make it through surgery. Those were much better odds, and she went for it. It was the correct choice. Here I am, and yes, I felt the distinct approach of death. But as I said, my circumstances were a bit different. But I was very aware that death was imminent, and I don't know how I knew. I didn't really feel all that sick, but I knew. And by golly, I was right. I think I'd recognise that feeling again too. Hope I don't feel it again anytime soon. The funny thing was, it all hapened so fast.

zorya	25 Feb 2003
((((((dark electric)))))) i am so glad you are still with us!

jlbvt	25 Feb 2003
WOW. I started reading this thread, and I was thinking that I have heard similar things from a few people in my life, but have never experienced it myself. Then I read Rostie's post about a cat. When I was young, We had a cat that was my brother's cat. (I also had a cat, who incidentaly was like my best friend) One day my family spent the day out together, and we ate at a nice restaurant. Someone had steak and couldn't finish it, so my dad said we should take it home for my brother's cat. It's a little odd now that I think about it, that it was specifically for my brother's cat. Maybe my dad knew too! When we got home, my dad called for the cat, and in that instant I knew she was dead. Sure enough, we found her in the basement. She had passed from old age. Very sad, but I had forgotten all about it until I read that post, thanks Rostie.

jlbvt	25 Feb 2003
DE, that's pretty scary. I'm glad you were able to get yourself to the hospital! I had to have emergency surgery an hour after I delivered my baby. I had a hematoma with serious blood loss, and they didn't even realize it untill I collapsed in the bathroom. I was so scared that I would die and not get to see the baby grow up. Luckily, like you, I also made it out of death's grip. I didn't have the feeling like you did though, so maybe I wasn't as close... but all that really matters is that we're still here! ;)

DarkElectric	26 Feb 2003
jlbvt: You might have been that close, believe it. I really didn't think I was either, but the evidence was indisputable. And seriously, when it involves bleeding like that, you never know when you've crossed the line, all of a sudden you just have, and it's super emergency time. And dear Zorya, I'm so glad I'm still here too! This is all still so fresh I haven't been able to cognate the experience fully. I get the stitches out today. And I think that the onset of death does have a unique signature all it's own. There is a current theory about time, that past, present and future occur simultaneously. I wonder, if because of this, we are able to get a sense of the immediate future, which is occuring, and one of the more distinct possibilities in that future is our own death. No one has been able to really explain precognition. Is it a glimpse of this portion of time, and the stronger of the infinite possibilities contained therein? Then of course, we get into all kinds of quantum gobbledy gook about influencing of the event horizon, and all that. But, in view of what just happened to me, it does seem reasonable.

RAVENAL	26 Feb 2003
DarkElectric... the bit about time is essentially the way I understand it now...and my view is always changing and being updated...so... being a non linear...creative type of thinker it's easy for me to see how we might even pick and choose what we want to "KNOW" and experience from all time... which is always occurring...it's a question of focus...and awareness...we all know many things that are not available to us in our everyday waking consiousness (the Tibetian Buddhists have mapped/explored... 13...levels of consiousness...not really sure of that #...may be 11 or 12...but the number may be limitless)...I believe it is... we all have many levels of consciousness always there to be explored...meditation...dreaming...sleeping...imagination... *death*...are just some we are all familiar with...sometimes these other levels do BLEED into each other...and as we consiously explore these other levels... the veils and barriers are easier each time to cross...and the experience once integrated allows us to become more aware of who we are in other realitys...we become more "completely aware"/complete... here and now...as this is our choice of focus...but we exist in all...this has been my personal experience... the Buddhist way of believing that we effect 700 years into the future... and 700 years into the past... from our point in the present has helped me to better visualize this and be aware of it's implications...and it's uses... and especially its GREAT responsibility...time and space is mutable and available in much larger ways then we currently see and understand it...and so are we... also "chaos theory" and "fractals " which show implicate order within disorder... and that each part is a part of a larger and a smaller whole... have shown and "reminded" me of the underlying interconnectedness in all things...the microcosim/macrocosim...the "ONENESS"...it's a unified system/universe but not a closed or static one... the multiple/infinite possibilities that occur from each moment...suggest the potiental of travel through consiousness(and what travels faster than this...?) in every and all directions...dimensions...levels...I think of spheres within spheres and spirals and the ever fluid void which holds all...and the "inbreath and the outbreath" of god/goddess/source...from within and returning unto that void...the infinite possibilities...the everything/no-thing...everywhere/everywhen...no-where/no-when... the alpha/omega...etc...eternal..."WHOLE"...and always available to each and everyone of us...as we exist within it and it within us... this is an attempt to put into words something that is easier understood when experienced...I hope others will respond with their own views...and what their personal realities have been...thanks and very glad to have you here among us... and thank you for sharing such an intimate part of yourself...be well...and all blessings...everywhere and everywhen...

full deck	28 Feb 2003
"i am wondering if this precognition is connected with us planning our lives on the other side before we come here. perhaps there is a part of our spirit's subconscious that remembers when we have planned our exits?" - - - Absolutely, it happens. I have seen this, personally and it is astounding in retrospect. Because of this, and other incidents, it has changed my perspective of what we call reality; the five senses don't account for everything and even though major flaws in organized religion abound, there is *something* larger than us all at work all the time that is more incredible than I can describe in words.

The A question on death thread was originally posted on 12 Feb 2003 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.