Are all gods one God, or are they many and seperate?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 25 Mar 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Kiama	25 Mar 2003
I have recently become aware that a view I have held for a very long time is viewd as highly offensive by many members of the Pagan community. I thought it was just members of monotheistic religions that had a problem with it, but apparantly it is not. My question is... Was Dion Fortune right when she said 'All gods are one god, all goddess are one goddess?' Are we right to say that all religions worship the same deity, but all see it with different facets and worhsip it accordingly? Or are there really many different gods out there, all from different pantheons, all vying for the highest number of worshippers? Are there even different gods from teh same pantheon in competition with each other? And if so, surely monotheism is a bad thing, cuz if you're only choosing to worship one God out of the many, you are gonna anger the other ones? During a phone call to a Pagan friend, we were talking about deities, and he said that he would say that Brighid ranked higher in his worldview than all other deities, but that would be suicidal and would really annoy the other deities! This is a new concept to me, since I've always held the view that differnt people simply see the Divine in different ways, an thus we get different people worshipping differnt aspects of teh same divine being. After all, how can you have a divine being (Such as a Celtic deity) who isn't connected in some way to a universal, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient force? They aren't deities as such if they have no links with a divine being... So surely they must, theologically speaking, be facets of the same divine being. Then I hear that people think that what I just said would offend the Gods aswell as people, because saying that deities are facets of the same being is apparantl the same as saying they aren't powerful at all. I don't see it like that. Just cuz they are facets of something doesn't mean they aren't powerful, does it? Gosh guys, am I a heretic destined to burn in a million different hells for all the deities I've offended?! Anyone got any ideas about this? Kiama

coldsuns	25 Mar 2003
There is a religious that the sky is the only God. The sky is a God. But most other religious usually say that when a person with high karma died, they will become Gods. Different religious, different people, different views. Believe in what you think. Listen to your own voice, not others

Maan	25 Mar 2003
Im not in the leats bit upset with this view. But thats probebly because i see it in the same way ;) I think the "divine" is a too difficult concept to grasp for us mortals so thats why we made differents archetypes to visualize parts of the divine energy. Maybe the collective energy that is send to an archetype for years and years somehow take form but thats also way out of my thought limits. Wen i started with the craft i was working more with different gods goddesses. At te moment i'm find my self refering more and more to the single concept of the universe and sometimes the feminine and male part of that universe. Just my 2cents

jlbvt	25 Mar 2003
I ike Maan's ideas! Something for me to think about now... (I always loved philosophy) ;)

jema	25 Mar 2003
i think of the divine as the ONE and that the ONE can be seen as and experienced in many shapes and forms, like the leaves of a tree are still part of the tree and they are the tree yet one can choose to work with just one or a few aspects of that tree. reading the kybalion was sort of an eye-opener for me also. i am not sure i can ascribe to the extremes of polarisation in the kybalion but many of the thoughts there are the same as i held for a long time.

Maan	25 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by jlbvt I ike Maan's ideas! Something for me to think about now... (I always loved philosophy) ;) me too i'm actually considering changing my courses and study philosophy or actually the "philosophy of pedagogical science." I love to play with abstract ideas:)

Maan	25 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by jema i think of the divine as the ONE and that the ONE can be seen as and experienced in many shapes and forms, like the leaves of a tree are still part of the tree and they are the tree yet one can choose to work with just one or a few aspects of that tree. What a beautiful image Jema. I'm going to give this some thought.

zorya	25 Mar 2003
i see everything as connected, so in my view, all 'god(s)/goddess(es) are part of a 'one'. at the same time i see everything as separate, down to our cells and smaller, so all (god(s)/goddess(es) are separate as well. ...but then pehaps we do create our own realities, so the above might only hold true for some of us. for those who feel their 'god' is not the same or part of other gods, thier god(s) is/are indeed separate and different.

Aerin	25 Mar 2003
I'm with the aspects -of-one Divine view as well. One reason that I think it is useful to think in this way is that it gives different views (for me) a 'different perspective' slant as against a 'my god is better than your god nah-nah-nah' slant. Suggesting that this makes a Deity somehow less powerful... well, sorry don't get that at all. Depends what you choose to believe, and putting human limits on something(s) that is beyond our human understanding seems about as useful as counting angels on the head of a pin. That doesn't mean to say that I don't value considering one 'god' at a time, like putting on different pairs of coloured spectacles to consider something. Or thinking about one situation in relation to different Tarot cards. Aerin

marlowe	25 Mar 2003
I'm currently of the view that the symbology of Gods has merely evolved over time, and it would be interesting to trace them back to their origins as totems and fetishes. Also, I currently think that gods/goddesses are almost exclusively symbolic, either sociologically or pyschologically. It's hard for me to make a leap of faith and accept the objectivity of visions and the like--I'm more of the belief that they are called up from our subconscious selfs -- and from THERE, I don't know - perhaps our connexion with Universe is channelled thru this subconscious, and therefore IS slightly objective? it's a tough one at any rate.

HOLMES	25 Mar 2003
hard to say from any valid point, just from a belief or a like to think point. i like to think just like there isn't any one angel, (there is a angel for everything they say) then there is a god for everything, a kind of overseer. and so someone must of made the gods, odin, zeus. although one could say they were simply worshiping the divine as they could percieve it. i myself like to see odin on the beach with thor saying ,"what fun we used to have. ah well , more mead errr wine may thou brings it fine maiden i grealy request? " in the comics, the gods when their worshipers died off left to finer pastures. i recall once such incident in conan when two armies who worship the same god died, and it was said you shall see the passing of kings , aye more then kings. and the god left with his gods onto the cosmos . of course this is just a comic version. and no proof. yet it gives mention how many gods that were worship since man became cognint have faded into the cosmos , even the caveman. like animals that have become extinct they have passed. yet can one still worship odin, or zeus. or shall it be called a cult ? what if odin appeared one day , with his big white beard and said hey you , i got a request. ? it involves migard ?" beats me. i recall in the picture bible that there are man gods but they worship the one god who made all these gods. is that phrase true ? i dont' know yet still it is at this time a matter of choice, how we percieve the divine, and what aspects of the divine we worship . *me starts looking around for glooscap.*

wolfen045	25 Mar 2003
I am a Dianic Wiccan, a worshiper of the Godess who also acknowledges the horned God/Pan. I want to be up front about that because I think it affects how I shape my reponse to this question. I think that God/dess is so big that our finite human conciousness cannot comprehend It. Like a diamond, we are able to see and understand only a small facet of the Devine Be-ing. Each culture/person experiences the face most congruent to them. I think it is arrogent of us to say that only we/I can see the truth and every one else is a heretic/infidel. My feeling is that which Alice Walker describes in the Color Purple: God/dess doesn't care how we adress Her/Him /It /Them as long as we acknowledge It's Presence in our lifes. Blessings and Joy to all,wolfen :)

HOLMES	25 Mar 2003
ARROGANT ? ME ? perhaps so.. nahhh. hehe i am a heretic/heriophant both sides do battle every time.

RedWood	25 Mar 2003
I used to be God...the it was God/Goddess cuz i was new to the concept and didnt want to offend..Mainly I say Universe..that embraces space, male, female etc..This suits me the best.. I believe everything is connected..And sometimes you just call on one aspect of the Universe..We will say the Goddess if you are having more female problems ..or if it feels right..I believe a more feminine aspect helps out..even tho it is all connected...This goes for any Diety you choose..for whatever you want..

HOLMES	25 Mar 2003
we are gods in human forum, spiritual masters who have forgotten who we are deep down inside. and that is what we seek lifetime after lifetime til we remember. it is said the master buddha, or the christ are gods, but in truth they simply remembered who they were and seeked to help us to remember. the postive forces of the universe seek to do so as well be it the dragons, the fairies, of the earth magic. or our own guides, or angels, or gods who watch over us. odin forever (said with much mirth)

Major Tom	26 Mar 2003
I suspect you know my opinion on this. :laugh: God is everything.

Melissa`	26 Mar 2003
I am a Pagan as well. Your view doesn't offend me because that is how I feel. I have offened other Pagan friends with this concept when I am questioned with it. I've learned to let it roll off my shoulders. In the end the greater power out there is a lot more than any of us can comprehend... that I will agree with. Yet I am comfortable set in my beliefs.. and I hope that you are too. Amaya

jonesy	28 Mar 2003
hello all i had written this in response to a question that i had recieved from a number of people that are on my mailing list. it seemed appropriate to add it here, though it is a little harsh. i think it might show you another way of looking at the semantic god/gods-goddesses. there is so much more involved within the questions that it has taken hundreds of pages to answe with any form of sense being made of it. hope it helps a little. Tangent #3 Whose dick is bigger? I was driving through Denver yesterday and ran into a sign that said "WHOSE GOD IS BIGGER?" Well if you have to ask, then the obvious answer is... mine is! Why? If one has to ask that sort of retarded question then it is more than obvious to me that any god whose church has to play my dicks' bigger than your dick... needs to get a clue. It is my opinion that if a god limits his/herself to just one religion, then that god is very small indeed. My god knows all men, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Christians, New Agers, Muslims, etc. For any god not to include all religions, is a god that is no god at all but a very small minded, egotistical, self centered, incarnation of the exact energies that they are supposed to be working against. For me religion is like a hand... each finger represents one aspect of religion, but together with the fist clenched, you have the word of god. Every religion has its piece of the puzzle, This was done so that all men would have to work together to figure out who god is... what god is ... he/she is simply all that is. (See my last tangent.) Religion is a tool devised by men to keep other men subservient and to keep the confusion in "the name of god". Please... give me a break. How many people have been killed in the name of god? Yet your own commandments strictly state "thou shalt not kill!" Anything that the religions of the world tell you that is fear based I.E. fear god, your going to burn in hell, the devil made me do it... are tools used by the dark side or the other side of the universal wheel of life. Why not try to love god and fellow man. Heaven and hell exist as levels in the astral plain where like energies attract, like energies. So if you screw up and are lower on the proverbial food chain here, then it is a very good chance before your next incarnation that you will reside on the lower astral plain (mythological hell) on the other side. The devil made me do it. How can that be when the Devil was created by the church to keep men subservient. Now I’m not saying that there is no Satan and there is no Lucifer, for they both do exist, Two different energies. The only difference is that Satan is a culmination of all negative energies, and Lucy is an archangel. (He hates it when I call him Lucy.) Lucifer is also referred to as Baal (see Wes Batemans book "Through Alien Eyes". Especially chapter 9. Lucifer is the El of Maldec (Or the Maldecian god) Each planet in the universe has their own El. Each planets El has its own way and covenants on dealing with their creations, They all are a part of the larger consciousness Known as the creator of all that is, the big cheese, the man with the plan, the master plan of the creator of all that is. Argh, sacrilege he’s said it again, there’s more than one god. Well it looks as though I’m going to have to put this puppy to bed once and for all, though, knowing me, its bound to show up in another tangent somewhere, especially when I see church signs that have negative connotative meanings. Fear god! My dicks' bigger than your dick routine. If a farmer plants an entire field of wheat and only one stalk was to grow... that would not be natural. Likewise, the creator of all that is plants a universe of stars and planets, and for only life to grow on just one of them... well quite frankly, its just not natural. How does one explain the difference between "the one true god... the god of Abraham etc.", and the creator of all that is? Quite simply... let us say that the creator is the General of the armies, and the minor generals (The Els) are the commanders of the legions (planets). Each has its own command, and everyone under that command knows the general as the big cheese or the man with the plan (God). Each of the Els still has to report to their boss who created them in the first place. Still confused? How about another analogy that may make sense to the minds of the less open variety. Even the Christian perspective believes in angels. God just happens to be their creator as well as yours. Each angel in turn has something that it watches out for. Now try to broaden your horizons to include the universe and not just your 3 dimensional realities. One more try... The CEO of a corporation has his presidents of this and or that department (planets) they still all report back to the boss. Yet to the minions beneath him, he is the last word in their lives. The buck stops here but eventually he still has a bigger boss yet. If you still don’t get it maybe you will when you’re dead. Either way... universal truth is universal truth… weather you believe it or not, it does not change the way in which the universe functions. It’s going to keep on working no matter how ignorant its occupants. What makes me so certain that what I say is true... I know my version of what the universe is. I am not going to try and convince anyone of what it is that they do not wish to know. Nothing that I say means a damn to anyone but those who wish to expand their horizons, to others these are just the ramblings of a madman going to hell. I’ll take my chances. Eventually people will get it... it may not be in this lifetime, but they will get it. And for those of you who think that I am the devil incarnate. I’ll wave to you from the upper astral plain when you cross over scratching your head and saying "how did I end up down here? He’s the madman!" May the creator of all that is guide you on your quest for reperfection!

Riversea	29 Mar 2003
I believe that all gods and goddesses are facets of the Divine. I believe the Divine is vast, not subject to humanism (one of my main problems with the Judeo-Christian god- For being all-loving and good, he's as petty as I am! Maybe worse!*), creative energy that is unfathomable (thus the need for all the various god and goddesses.) The Divine is everywhere and everything. We all are sparks of it. All creation carries these sparks within them. I tried to explain it to Landon (my husband and another sometimes Aeclectian!). I did a bad job, but he said it sounded a bit like some Hindu ideas about God/dess. Landon (a Budahist) is a middle school teacher who often teaches world religions to his students, so I'm trusting him on that one. I will say this though... I love those god/dess facets! They sure make it a lot easier to reach out to and to understand the Divine! :) *While I can accept temper tantrums from the Greek Gods (none of them individually make up a complete "god" picture IMHO), a all-loving, all-knowing, all-powerful God behaving badly is quite another thing. :) How could he condemn BILLIONS of people that he loves completely, to everlasting torment, and (for lack of a better term) live with himself for the rest of eternity? If he is all-knowing and loving, wouldn't he stop them from ever being created in the first place, knowing that they are forever doomed? I don't know. I've gone round and round on this one, seeing the hand of man too strongly in the shaping of the Judeo-Christian god. I guess I want a God/Goddess, that if they are going to display human traits, should be our highest, most honorable, and evolved traits. I hope I didn't offend anyone. This is a hard concept to explain well, and I most assuredly did not succeed, but none of it was meant to hurt or otherwise dismiss anyone else's ideas concerning Divinity. They are valid only to me at this stage of my life. :) -Disclaimer- Ideas about God/dess stated above, may change without warning! LOL Peace :)

Fuzzmello	30 Mar 2003
Does it really make a difference? Does your God provide you with a firm connection to compassion, understanding and strength? If I prayed to a god, for me, that would be enough. Fuzz

Minderwiz	31 Mar 2003
A good point Fuzz. I spent some time trying to clarify my feelings on this point - I suppose one can start by trying to define what is a 'god' and whether God with a capital 'G' is the creator force as opposed to any old god. One can even argue about whether God as prime cause has to be singular - we recognise that many physical events can have more than one cause - so why not multiple Gods as first cause of physical creation? However in the end I think I would be presumptious to say that I know what the answer is - I don't and I don't think anyone really does. Whether I choose to see certain forces as being aspects of the one God or as being separate individuals is not really that important. As Fuzz says I think it comes down to what you feel comfortable with and what helps you, if only for a moment, get in touch with the 'divine'

Amythist	01 Apr 2003
I belive that there is more than 1 god and there are more goddesses aout there than i think. When i casted out a spell and not that lond a go my pendulum was doing all the talking and all the casting. The power was unreal and i must say i think the are lots of gods and godesses

Ursula	02 Apr 2003
;) the thing about pagans is you can ask 10 pagans (or 10 witches) the same question and get 10 different answers. i don't think there is a belief possible that won't offend SOMEONE. i do think it's naive to assume that the majority of the pagan community views things in one way or another. what i've heard is that all goddesses are Goddess and all gods are God. i tend toward the belief that the Divine is One, but if that means one Being, one Purpose, one Power... i dunno!!! and ultimately, i don't really care. it's too much to worry about. i just take whatever belief or deity seems to serve my purpose of the moment, use it and see if it helps. my focus is on the planes of reality i can experience through my mortal senses; i have no need or desire to explore other realms in depth! i'm sure they will reveal themselves to me in time--maybe once i've successfully negotiated my current reality... which just may take a bit more time ;) peace, ~Urs :OL

The Are all gods one God, or are they many and seperate? thread was originally posted on 25 Mar 2003 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.