spirit guides, guardian angels

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 17 Apr 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Butterfly	17 Apr 2003
Do you see each of these as seperate entities, or are they different names for the same things? I'd always thought them to be one and the same, until I read that they are two seperate but complementary entities. I'd never considered this possibility. Do you believe in them, and what do you believe that their role is? Do you believe deceased loved ones can be our guides, or guardian angels? Just wondering :)

skytwig	17 Apr 2003
Nice thread, Butterfly. Yes, i believe I have various Guides and I tend to think Guides and angels are different. But then, I think guides are varied. I sense tree spirits (read Ted Andrews). and I believe in nature fairies...... (wuhoooo!) When I was trained for Reiki, i was taught that I have guides specifically for Reiki. i was taught that the 'client' also has Guides who work with mine to facilitate the healing. I believe this is true. I have my beliefs, but who truly knows what Is? I feel energies with me as I work. I also 'channel' writings that 'sound' different than what I write. I also 'feel' my mother and other passed over beings. My children sense their father with them and I sensed as he was dieing, that he 'requested' that he be able to finish his fathering with them. I think he is. I figure if the miracle of being alive as a human is so possible, something that makes absolutely no sense, then, yes, Guides, angels, Elves, Fairies, they're all possible..... and that is truly DELIGHTFUL!

Alissa	17 Apr 2003
I tend to think of them as the same thing for myself. If others prefer a distinction, I'm happy to honor that ... but to me, it's like telling me the difference between an orange and a tangerine. YES they're different, but to me they're too similar to pick apart the differences :D. I firmly believe we all have what I call our Inner Teachers (more nomenclature for the same thing). Whenever I read, Tarot or palms, my prayers always include a sentence to my Teachers, and to the Teachers of my querent, to the effect of, "Please help me to give this person the message you know they most need to hear." And, I believe that through prayer/meditation we can all communicate with our Teachers directly -- that's what they're there for, whether we always sense their presence or not -- when we need their assistance (esp. spiritual assitance).

skytwig	17 Apr 2003
I like that , Alissa. How wonderful it would be if we all said prayers like that before we speak with others. Our communication might be more 'hearable'.

HOLMES	17 Apr 2003
Do you see each of these as seperate entities, or are they different names for the same things? I'd always thought them to be one and the same, until I read that they are two seperate but complementary entities. I'd never considered this possibility. Do you believe in them, and what do you believe that their role is? Do you believe deceased loved ones can be our guides, or guardian angels? 1. they are seperate entities, spirit guides are evolved soul who choose to help others in conjunction with the angels and the divine will to evolve as well. angels are messengers and workers of the divine source which is so much more then the biblical god, or the course in miracles father, or the buddha,.. it is so infinite it can n't be defined by our minds, just aspects. (all i know is , it is infinite intelligent, wisdom, and love) 2. their role is to support us in our journey through this mortal plane which is a school to some, a spiritual vacation to others but always an experience. 3 loved one do not become our guides or guardian angels,( we already come with one, we just have to ask him to make his or her presence known (angels are androyngous) that being said they do watch over us, come to guide us in dreams, for example, and can work behind the scenes to help us. so they are in a sense trying to guide us in their way , and help us,, but they dont' interfere with our free will, and lessons we choose. therefore there is things they won't tell us about our lives. and so, the ideal of a mother coming through a medium , HI SALLY I WANT YOU TO TAKE THAT JOB, AND THEN MOVE TO FLORIDA ,, AND THEN THERE MEET SAM, OH DEAR ,, I WONDER YOU SHOULD WEAR RED MORE. they usally come through a medium to verify they are who they are, and they love you , and will alwasy be with you . and any advice they give you will be to help you move along your life without them.

angelwhispers	18 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by HOLMES 1. they are seperate entities, spirit guides are evolved soul who choose to help others in conjunction with the angels and the divine will to evolve as well. angels are messengers and workers of the divine source which is so much more then the biblical god, or the course in miracles father, or the buddha,.. it is so infinite it can n't be defined by our minds, just aspects. (all i know is , it is infinite intelligent, wisdom, and love) 2. their role is to support us in our journey through this mortal plane which is a school to some, a spiritual vacation to others but always an experience. 3 loved one do not become our guides or guardian angels,( we already come with one, we just have to ask him to make his or her presence known (angels are androyngous) that being said they do watch over us, come to guide us in dreams, for example, and can work behind the scenes to help us. so they are in a sense trying to guide us in their way , and help us,, but they dont' interfere with our free will, and lessons we choose. therefore there is things they won't tell us about our lives. I tend to agree with Holmes. I believe that spirit guides and guardian angels are also seperate entities. IMO, they were placed with you since birth, so I don't believe they are deceased loved ones. I also think its possible to have several different spirit guides but yet only one guardian angel. They are hear for guidance, the little voice in your head or the gut feeling you have about something, to me anyway, is messages from them. To add to the questions already posed....when a young child talks to their imaginary friend...as I had before my other siblings came along...do you think they are the childs spirit guides or guardian angel that they see and talk to? My mother feels mine was possibly my guardian angel, and now knowing what I do I think it might have been a spirit guide, whatever it was she said it brought much comfort to me and went with us everywhere till my brother was born.

Inana	18 Apr 2003
Im interested in this subject but very confussed about it... Anyways I think both are the same, thats just different names to fit different beliefs. My question here is... do you think guides come out of us, like some kind of spirits or can you see them like something that is inside us? What I mean with this second is they being just a strong type of intuition that lies deep inside us, like a voice from the conscience or similar, withouth any physical presence... Dont know if im making sense, hope you understand what im trying to say. And there's another thing. If you try to contact your guide, you can always know when is not your imagination who is speaking to you?

Inana	18 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by angelwhispers To add to the questions already posed....when a young child talks to their imaginary friend...as I had before my other siblings came along...do you think they are the childs spirit guides or guardian angel that they see and talk to? I tend to think that probabily they are, like the name says, imaginary friends. Childs usually have large imagination, and i remember i speaked with all my teddy bears and so on. So, the imaginary friend can fall in this category. Just my opinion, maybe there's some cases that this is different.

Alissa	18 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Inana My question here is... do you think guides come out of us, like some kind of spirits or can you see them like something that is inside us? What I mean with this second is they being just a strong type of intuition that lies deep inside us, like a voice from the conscience or similar, withouth any physical presence And there's another thing. If you try to contact your guide, you can always know when is not your imagination who is speaking to you? I believe our Teachers rarely take physical form, at least mine don't, so I don't see them as separate and outside of me. I speak to them through prayer, so I see them as "in" me or with me, but not a part of me (I don't know if that makes sense or not). Differentiating between the "interior voice" (your voice in your head, the one that reminds you things, etc.) and your Inner Teachers' voice was tricky for me at first too. My Teachers' responses come to me the same way as the voice of my own conscience -- I simply hear it in my head. However, the quality and content of their messages is very different. I guess the best I can do is give a personal example, if it's helpful : a few months back I hit an extremely bad point, and needed help. I was a wreck that day (due to things not worth going into) and through prayer I DEMANDED that my Teachers help me, and help me to take care of myself and my child that day, because I was uncertain if I could do it myself. All the rest of the day I could "hear" in my head a strong firm voice, like that of the conscience but also qualitatively different, telling me what I needed to do ... "Go drink some water, you're dehydrated from crying. Now go eat a banana, you're electrolytes are down and that's why you feel faint." It was like hearing a parent's voice in my head, telling me how to help myself. I asked for Their help and They willingly gave it. The thoughts gave me great comfort as well. To get clearer on what is your own interior monologue, and what is the sound of your Teacher(s)' voice, I would suggest prayer and/or meditation. When you've centered and grounded yourself, and feel calm and the quiet is in your head, talk to your Teachers in your head and see if you can hear their responses. Eventually you will begin to notice how their messages "feel" different than your own interior monologue, as well as the wisdom of what can be conveyed. Holmes' explanations make a lot of sense to me, but I feel that he's able to grasp the differences discussed here better than I myself can -- he can tell a tangerine from an orange better than me, I 'spose. :D

Inana	18 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Alissa I believe our Teachers rarely take physical form, at least mine don't, so I don't see them as separate and outside of me. I speak to them through prayer, so I see them as "in" me or with me, but not a part of me (I don't know if that makes sense or not). Yes, I understand, its almost the same i was trying to say in my question. With physical i was more refering to something ethereal... dont know how to explain it. Guess i have conflict with all this because my mind is always trying to go both the more skeptical/scientific way and the spiritual/intuitive or how to call it at the same time. So i find hard to make all the pieces of the puzzle get together, and takes time until i can find the explanations that fit with my concepts and ideas. Quote: Originally posted by Alissa To get clearer on what is your own interior monologue, and what is the sound of your Teacher(s)' voice, I would suggest prayer and/or meditation. When you've centered and grounded yourself, and feel calm and the quiet is in your head, talk to your Teachers in your head and see if you can hear their responses. Eventually you will begin to notice how their messages "feel" different than your own interior monologue, as well as the wisdom of what can be conveyed.). Thanks much for the explanation about how to differenciate it and sharing your experience. Sounds very confortable to have that caring guidance when you were needing the help. Sure i need meditation, centering and grounding... Hope it will help me to get better understanding on the guides, and maybe feel them.

Butterfly	18 Apr 2003
Absolutely fascinating info everyone. I'm completely absorbed. I agree with Alissa and Inana that they are not seperate entities- it's during my meditation that I most often have contact, but I've managed during the day as well. They come as images, words and knowings, it's really hard to seperate my thoughts from theirs, I'll take Alissa's advice, she's so darn aware! ;) Holmes, your beliefs fit in very neatly with my own, I agree with them, but I have one confusion- what is the difference in the role of angels and guides. I understand they come from different vibrations, but how do their functions differ?

HOLMES	18 Apr 2003
QUOTE/ Holmes, your beliefs fit in very neatly with my own, I agree with them, but I have one confusion- what is the difference in the role of angels and guides. I understand they come from different vibrations, but how do their functions differ?QUOTE/ let us first talks about angels, there is angels assigned, example guardian angels, messengers, angels of knowledge, angels of study, angels of cleaning. eheh. it is kind of that movie michale, where he says "I;m not that kind of angel" some angels are just simply messengers, they are more then that as well, their functions get assigned how ? the creator picks the best angel for the job, the one who will do the best job. example a guardian angel wont deliver messages they would suck at that. eheh. guides aren't assigned functions like angels but evolve to them, by their soul growth. an example would be the statement "i;m a doctor" by a human being . a guide would say "i am a healing guide, or i am a poetry guide, or a master teacher guide. " guides aren't all knowing,, they are a team who find the best guide to come in and help you with what they want to know. an interesting thing is . 1. when you mediate into the light and seek a guide who resonates with your energy signature "opening to channel method " you find a guide who goals, and desires matches your soul. example your life purpose might be to be a giver of information. this guide who resonates with your energy signature would be excellent at giving information to others. yet suppose one asks for healing ? he would give information on how to heal yourself, but for the actual bodywork he would seek a bodywork guide. in this way a person can have many guides ,, but not so much they can't handle, i once asked my guide "can i learn telekeniss," he said to me "what use is it to you " and i thought of that and said good point. (not to sound smart mouthed or anything but for me personally it was a good point, for i had images of myself walking like off the movie zapped ) i share this for sometimes a master guide won't teach us all that we want to know for it doesnt' serve the purpose of the work together. 2. the other method i learn in brb i go get the book name. channeling how to reach out to your spirit guides by kathryn ridall , phd. she talks about a method called invoking your personal spirit guides. you give a list of all the things you want to learn. what qualities you desire in the guide what kind of relationship you want with your guide. and verbally invoke it. (she says at least five days ) and then your like a radio tower sending out a signal and a guide will come. i recall trying this method, but that was bac in 93.94, and i forgot what i wrote down , and then i went back to the opening to channel method. who knows it might of worked. it is possible to call to you a specific kind of guide, or an ascended master. the differnce. between these guides and your really personal spirit guide is a big difference in these areas. 1. your personal spirit guide is one who you choose to be your guide before you incarnated. (this is a soul friendship on the ultimate level, ex you might of been brothers in one life, watched over each other in differnt times. or just simply been friends for the longest moment (there is no time up there lol ) and then she wanted to go to guide school and become a guide and you said ok you can guide me ) 2. she or he knows you like themselves, 3. they been with you all your life. 4. they are called the watchers, by some. i recall reading in one of the books either messengers of light or guaridan of hope. about imagine watching someone for their whole life everything they done, everything that happend to them and all you can do is send them light and you try to communciate by dreams, and books and such knowin they have to choose to talk to you in the mortal plane before you can approach them (little special provisdo there explained after .. is that how it is spelt provisod ?) and then the joy you have when they ask to talk to you , to know you , that first time i read i felt tears welling up my eyes ( incidently she tells it better in the book ) the special provisodo. if you set yourself to be a channel or medium by soul contract, the spirit guide can talk to you when you a child openly approaching you , this is considered training to furfill your life purpose.

Sea Sprite	19 Apr 2003
A fascinating book to read on the subject is "She Talks With Angels" by Michelle Whitedove. I found the book very informative and enjoyable to read. According to the author, there's a hierarchy among angels; Archangels are the highest is rank. We each have at least 2 guardian angels to help us from birth and are with us even after death. Guardian angels have never been incarnated. Spirit guides on the other hand, have incarnated many times and are highly evolved souls. :)

HOLMES	19 Apr 2003
it is pretty much agreed on for those who follows angels, that angels. the ones we know best. archangels. tend the larger areas of endevours example rapheal archangelf of healing. principalities angels of larges cities and nations, and recently mutinational corpations. powers the keepers of collective history, and bears of the consciences of humanity virtues. beamers of divine energy,as more of us learn to work with them the earth will evolve.(i am not sure but i think these only work with groups ) dominions. they govenern the angels below them , the divine beuracrat. although they take their orders from the source, and rarely contact individuals their work is still connected with our reality thrones, the companion angels of planets, (gia of earth ), cherubim the angels of the stars and light, remote their light still touches earth . seraphim (the highest rank) they regulate the heavens themselves, (this from the book ask your angels ) it is rare for a dominion to talk to an individual. edited to change the line and add some more information.

HOLMES	19 Apr 2003
i am not sure if it is agreed on by those who study angels, as there is constant debates i have heard of to how many specific angels there are. what exactly each one does. (old writings versus new writings ) some say the roles of some angels changes in today world to better fit for example. (by the way i saw that book on amazon and i was going to order it soon :O) and be better able to comment on her rankings.)

Sea Sprite	19 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by HOLMES i am not sure if it is agreed on by those who study angels, as there is constant debates i have heard of to how many specific angels there are. what exactly each one does. (old writings versus new writings ) some say the roles of some angels changes in today world to better fit for example. (by the way i saw that book on amazon and i was going to order it soon :O) and be better able to comment on her rankings.) According to Michelle Whitedove, there's billions of angels. I've read books by Doreen Virtue also that says that we can contact angels even the archangels such as Michael, Raphael, Gabriel, Uriel; that we can never overburden them with what some may consider trivial stuff that should be handled by our spirit guides. :)

Sea Sprite	19 Apr 2003
oh by the way; did you know that cherubs, fairies and mermaids are angels too?! ;)

Alissa	19 Apr 2003
Holmes, thanks for sharing so much of this information! I do see some cross overs between faery descriptions and angel descriptions -- beamer angels remind me strongly of singer faeries, for example. But, there are lots of fae ... just as there are lots of angels, so I don't see them all as one and the same. A lot of fae I think of as elementals, and they work at a very primal level that I'm not sure angels would. But I have no real idea.... Anyhow, great topic and great info! Thanks again Holmes, as I found much of what you shared *quite* enlightening and intriguing.

The spirit guides, guardian angels thread was originally posted on 17 Apr 2003 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.