Buddhist

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 01 Jun 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

coldsuns	01 Jun 2003
I guess there arent much Buddhists out there in the Western part. I was a Buddhist..my parents are still Buddhist. In fact my family- grandparents, aunties, uncles, cousins all are Buddhist. I always thought that the Gods that the Buddhist pray to are actually humans that earn high karma and become God after they die. There are story behing every God of Buddhist. But my cell leader in the church tells me that actually Buddhist are praying to wood carvings..they make the statues as their idol and pray to the statues as if they are Gods. Any..comments??

amyel	01 Jun 2003
Coldusns, this sounds like an example of one religion trying to put down another, without really understanding the other one - and not wanting to. I have to ask, particularly in response to your other post, why are you attending a church as a Buddhist? That question is no way an attack, I'm just curious. I also am reminded of a book which won the Booker Prize last year: the "Life of Pi". In that story, the young man also struggles with a variety of religions, taking some teachings from Buddhism, Hindu and Christian faiths.

coldsuns	01 Jun 2003
Im not officially a Buddhist. I just follow my family to the temple and pray. But i respect of Gods and Deities of Buddhist. But there are so many of them, and so hard to know their backgrounds. And i cant understand them well enough. So i officially become a Christian instead. After understand whats Christian about. I find that is hard for me to believe it. Do you all know about the Monkey God? The story of Journey to the West? A monk,Tang San was going to take scriptures at the West but on the way he met many demons. --It is a fake story. Yes, Tang San was really going to the West(Indian) taking scriptures. But there wasnt Monkey God. It is actually a character. There arent demons. Then i find it hard to believe in Buddhist. Because i found that many Buddhist is praying Monkey God when it is just a character in a story. They just believe things blindy. They never really understand a thing properly but choose to believe it without understand it.

alexis	01 Jun 2003
i will say : believe what u want. was a Roman Catholic, now i call myself Retired Catholic. just like choosing tarot decks, choose the religion that calls out to u

Draconian Angel	01 Jun 2003
Quote: Originally posted by coldsuns Do you all know about the Monkey God? The story of Journey to the West? A monk,Tang San was going to take scriptures at the West but on the way he met many demons. --It is a fake story. Yes, Tang San was really going to the West(Indian) taking scriptures. But there wasnt Monkey God. It is actually a character. There arent demons. Then i find it hard to believe in Buddhist. Because i found that many Buddhist is praying Monkey God when it is just a character in a story. They just believe things blindy. They never really understand a thing properly but choose to believe it without understand it. Yes, I am rather familiar with this story. Although I have never actually read the texts, I've seen many media adaptations for it. Rather interesting how some people pray to the Monkey King/Sun Wukong as a deity. The Buddhism you're describing is the one that some Chinese practise - I've heard that the general Guan Yu of the State of Shu during the Three Kingdom War period was is/ worshipped this way. Buddhism was founded in China from India, during the Tang dynasty A.D. 618-907, long after the Three Kingdom period (A.D. 220-280), and the Journey to the West was written by Wu Cheng'en (I think that's correct) during the Ming dynasty (A.D. 1368-1644). Therefore, Sun Wukong is a recent addition as a deity. Although I may be inaccurate... To me, some Chinese are just God-fearing, confused by the idea of Buddhism, and the Indian Buddhism (I do not know the proper names -_-; ) is rather different, I believe. My aunty practises a different "denomination" of Buddhism... So that's shows that not all Buddhists pray to Wu Cheng'en's character. And I've read somewhere, that the Buddhism wasn't really about worship, rather to try to follow the ways to reach enlightment... But again, I might be wrong. ^_^;; Maybe you could research the origin and history of Buddhism further to help you understand why is it so. I hope my rambles haven't confused you... >_____>;;;

zorya	01 Jun 2003
as i understand it, buddhism is more a spiritual practice than a religion. a spiritual path that by itself does not contain worship of dieties. the basic tenents of buddhism are the four noble truths. which are about suffering and transcending suffering. there are several branches of buddhism, theravada i believe was the first. originating in india. this one focuses on one's reaching enlightenment. mahayana came out of theravada. the main difference being the focus on helping others, rather than self, to reach enlightenment. there are different schools of buddhism outside of india. sorry i don't know the name of the chinese school. zen is a school from japan, that branched out of mahayana. this school places a big emphasis on meditation. tibetan buddhism is another school. each of these schools have several branches.

Kiama	01 Jun 2003
Real Buddhism does not worship any God/Gods, not even the Buddha. Instead, the Buddha is seen as an example of where one must try to get to spiritually: Enlightenment (An understanding of the universe, and a detachment from the impermanent world). So what the Christian in your post said about Buddhists worshipping wooden carvings is inaccurate: They don't worhsip any God/statue/human. Buddhism, as mentioned previously in this thread, is more a spiritual path than religion, in that it involves a set of ethics, beliefs, and practices, but no god to speak of... The Four Noble Truths 1) Dukkha: Suffering/dis-ease/dissatisfaction. Buddhists believe that this world is unsatsifactory, in that life is not perfect and totally happy. Life is also impermanent, and changing constantly. 2) Samudaya: The origin of this suffering/dis-ease/dissatisfaction. Buddhists believe that suffering is caused because we become too attached to this world, and as such we fail to accept the impermanence of it, so we become dissatisfied. 3) Nirodha: The cessation of suffering. Buddhists believe that there is a way to cease this suffering: By reaching Nirvana. Nirvana is the ultimate spiritual goal for a Buddhists, as it represents total detachment from the world, therefore making one unaffected by the impermanence. 4) Magga: The path to the cessation of suffering. Buddhists believe that the path to Nirvana lies in many things, which can be split up into 1) Ethics 2) Practice. Ethics Mainly, we have the Noble Eightfold Path. This is: Right Understanding Right Speech Right Intent Right Action Right Effort Right Livelihood Right Mindfulness Right Concentration They are aimed at making the Buddhist more self-disciplined, more caring, more understanding, and more thoughtful. Through practice of the Noble Eightfold path, the Buddhist begins th eroad to Nirvana. Buddhists also take on the Five Precepts: To abstain from false speech To abstain from taking things not freely given To abstain from sexual misconduct To abstain from intoxicating substances To abstain from harming living beings. Practices Meditation is the key here: Buddhists usually practice Insight meditation in order to practice detachment from the world, gain insight into the nature of the world, and learn to focus their minds so that they can remain in that state. It is hoped that all this will lead the Buddhist to the state of Bodhisattva: Enlightened One, just like the Buddha. They do not, however, worship these Bodhisattvas, but see them as examples of how to live. Just as I see my parents as an example of how to live, but do not worship them. You will probably find that at a basic level, the beliefs/practices of Buddhists and Christians are fairly similar, and can be practiced together. They both strive for a spiritual goal, and both have practically the same ethics. Christians strive for a Christ-like existence, whilst Buddhists strive for a Buddha-like existence. Also, note how similar the Buddha and Jesus are: Their teachings were similar. They both achieved what we may call enlightenment (Buddha through meditation under the Bodhi tree, and Jesus on the cross). Both had to go through a period of suffering before they gained this enlightenment. Both had disciples and taught people whilst they were alive. Buddhists are also called to question what they believe, in order to gain true insight and understanding: They do not, as you say Coldsuns, believe things blindly, and nor do they worship any Monkey God. Kiama

Diana	02 Jun 2003
coldsuns: I know I'm not answering your question here, but I want to ask you something. Why do you want to be an official Christian, or an official Buddhist or an official anything? Can't you just be you? Did you read my post in the other thread where I told you not to listen to gurus and people who tell you that they possess the truth? These are the most dangerous people for your mental health. (The Pope is also a guru.) If you want to mess up your head by believing that one official doctrine, whether it be Buddhist, or Christian, or Jewish, or Muslim, or whatever, is going to provide you with the answers you need, then that's up to you. But what a shame for a person with such an enquiring mind as yours. There are dozens of different Christian doctrines and beliefs, Buddhist doctrines and beliefs. They are all different. Choose to believe what makes sense to YOU, not because they make sense to someone else. Take two Christians: A Catholic and a Jehovah's Witness (for instance). Lock them together them in a room. They'll start tearing each other's hair out after ten minutes. You'll find the same with Buddhists, Christians, Hindus and Jews. No-one holds the truth. Stop kidding yourself. Take what is good out the the different religions in the world if that helps you. I'm not telling you to throw out the baby with the bath-water.

Kiama	02 Jun 2003
Diana has some good suggestions: Post-modern spirituality! You'll find it's very common these days, especially amongst Aeclecticians. It's basically pick-n-mix religion: You take the parts from a religion if it works for you, and add them into your own individual understanding of the Universe. Often you will find that you don't fully subscribe to all the beliefs of a certain religion, and what is the point of having a religion you don't believe in whole-heartedly? Why not instead create your own religion from what you do believe? At least then you know the religion is right for you! Btw: I was re-reading your post about the Monkey God and the fake story, and how you found it hard to believe in Buddhism because you thought they accepted a fake story as true. Well, with all due respect to Christianity, but there is the possibility that the Bible is just a collection of fake stories. Jesus may just be another fake character. The conclusion can go either way: Way 1: Either you say that no religion is worth believing in, because they all have fake stories Way 2: Or you accept that even if the stories are fake, they have something to teach us. Aesops Fables were not real, but they included within them vital messages to help us get along with life. The story of the Monkey God may be fake, but it also has a message of great importance in there, which people take guidance from. The Bible may not be true at all, but just look at all the profound wisdom found within it! Jesus said: "Love thy neighbour as you love thyself" and 'Do unto others as you would be done by", and it is irrelevant as to whether he actually said this really: The fact remains that those two sentences are the most profound and guiding sentences around. (Well, probably). Look at the Jewish scriptures: The Torah. Now, many peopel assume that if it's a holy book, it has to come from God, and if it's not, the religion is based on falsehood. Well, In Judaism, that's not the case. They have a written Torah (The Tenakh) which contains the writings of prophets, and, according to Jews, Moses. But they also have the oral Torah: The Talmud. Now, this Talmud was a creation of man, not God, and that is historical fact. It is the oral teachings of the Jews, which were finally written down in the second century, in order to preserve them under persecution. Later on, Jewish scholars and learned men would discuss them, raise questions, pose answers, and come to conclusions. These questions, answers, and conclusions were also writtemn down, and became a valuable part of what the Jewish people see as a Holy Book. They find immense wisdom within them, despite the books themselves being written and conceived by man. The stories they use to illustrate what they say are false. Take this story for example: "A Rabbi was ordered by a man to stand on one leg on a chair, and teach him the whole Torah before he could get down again. The Rabbi simply said "What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbour. The rest is commentary. Go and read." Now that was a false story: It never happened. But it serves to illustrate a valuable point, which is not to be scoffed at. So I guess the point of this post is to say that just because a story is false doesn't make it invalid, and one can gain more wisdom from a false story than a real one sometimes. Kiama

allibee	02 Jun 2003
Yup, just look at my signature below......

Diana	02 Jun 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Kiama You take the parts from a religion if it works for you, and add them into your own individual understanding of the Universe. Often you will find that you don't fully subscribe to all the beliefs of a certain religion, and what is the point of having a religion you don't believe in whole-heartedly? Why not instead create your own religion from what you do believe ? At least then you know the religion is right for you! Jesus said: (........) 'Do unto others as you would be done by", and it is irrelevant as to whether he actually said this really Actually coldsuns, reading Kiama's post above makes me think: Some people live quite happily without a religion. It is not at all obligatory in order to get by in this world. (This doesn't mean you have to be an atheist. One can "believe" without a religion.) No-one knows what Jesus said - the New Testament was written ages after his death. However the oldest trace of the "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you" is not in the bible, it was already being quoted by Confucius. You have the opportunity at your age to choose freedom. Why not choose it?

sagitarian	02 Jun 2003
hmm, no I would have to say I disagree with that. There is nothing wrong with having something that helps you focus on your chosen God or Goddess while in prayer. Thousands upon thousands of religions practice such things. Saying prayers to a wood carving is a crock of you know what in my book! To me, it's a means of focus to direct your energy of your prayer to your chosen God or Godess.

The Buddhist thread was originally posted on 01 Jun 2003 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.