Why come back as a genocide?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 25 Jun 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Indigo_lady	25 Jun 2003
OK.. harsh name.. I know, sorry But I've been going back and forth with the idea in my head Some schools of spirituality that believe in re-incarnation, karma, and so on.. believe that before you come down here you're up there (sorry for my lack of *vocabulary, but I hope the message gets across) and you choose how you're coming back, what you would wish to have the chance to experienced, what lessons you want to be faced with, in what circle you want to re-incarnate and so on... so I was wondering, why would you choose to come back as someone who very likely is going to be remembered by manking in general as a genocide, inhuman, vicious, psycho sick and twisted ruler, mass murderer, etc... someone who will be despised by people and history for centuries to come ?????

Alobar	25 Jun 2003
i believe in reincarnation, but i don't know the we have the choice as to how we come back (although that would be a comforting thought). also, you have to consider that many people (most?) stray from their intended path by rationalising away those values that don't fit in with their greed, lust for power, or whatever. i really do believe that we are all born innocent. there are just too many variables to say that a genocidal maniac 'chose' to come back as such.

Melissa`	25 Jun 2003
I know what I'm thinking.. Yet not quite sure how to put it down in words. A few years back, a group of friends and I were discussing reincarnation. One popped up and said "As babies, we know everything. You're born knowing everything. We just forget." I can see how this could be true. And if it is, your question could be explained.. as if.. A soul chooses where it wants to be, who it wants to be.. but along the lines.. we forget. The world around us molds us, then we tend to go down another path. Not to say we don't learn anything from those paths.. maybe it was meant for a turning point. Maybe other lessons were meant to be learned that lifetime and not what the soul had wanted to do.. We can't have everything we want :) Hope this makes sense.. its only thoughts in my mind anyways :) Blessings, Amaya

Marion	25 Jun 2003
And the world shapes us too. Remember that Hitler was supposedly extremely disappointed with and resentful of his own lack of success. When you chose your life, presumably you couldn't chose the details, just the general things. Otherwise every step of our lives would be pre-ordained, and then what would be the point of reincarnation?

wavebreaker	25 Jun 2003
I suppose it's about how you choose to lead your life. I don't believe anyone is predestined to become a cruel dictator; it's the choices these people make in life. Dictators are often powerful leaders and demagogues. They could have used those talents in a positive way, but instead they chose to use them in a negative way. And that may also be because of the circumstances in their lives, as Marion mentioned. But regardless of circumstances, it's still a choice. I believe that, even though we can't influence everything that happens to us, we do have a choice of how to handle things. If something bad happens to us, we can sit back and moan about it, or we can become vengeful and take it out on other people, or we can try and learn from it and move on from there. Someone who choses to become a cruel dictator obviously still has a lot of lessons to learn...

buzzbee	25 Jun 2003
Maybe the opportunity to choose to become a genocidal murderer is the opportunity to say no to that type of power ... & they failed.

raeanne	25 Jun 2003
Quote: Originally posted by buzzbee Maybe the opportunity to choose to become a genocidal murderer is the opportunity to say no to that type of power ... & they failed. Buzzbee, I think you have a very valid point! I use to think that people who are living "hard" lives (addiction problems, poverty, domestic violence, etc) were the people who were on the lower rungs of the spiritual ladder. It seemed to make sense that the more advanced a person became, the easier their life became. Now, I'm not so sure this is right. I think it would be easier to be spiritual if your life were easier. Maybe it takes someone with more experience to even think about incarnating in a life that will be a struggle. Personally, I think a great deal could be learned by incarnating as a villian! I certainly don't want to do that but I do think the negative side of humanity teaches a great deal.

SingingTarot	25 Jun 2003
This is such an interesting thread, so many questions arise. I tend to lean toward believing in reincarnation, and yet, when I see a baby or a child, they just seem so brand new and inncoent, it is hard to think they are actually very old souls. I have a hard time witht the cast system in India, if you've been good before, then you get to be born in a higher cast, if you've been bad bad, then you are an untouchable, and don't even think about changing casts, because it's karma! That bothers me. Unlike Reanne, I think it might be easier to gain spiritual awareness when life it real tough. It seems when we have couchy easy live, we tend to become very.... asleep? Engrossed in the material comfort I guess. I have often been very humbled by people who had amasingly difficult times in their lifes, and yet seem to be at peace inside. Maybe we do chose what our life is going to be like, and we accept trials and difficulty as learning opportunities, but somewhere along the way, we forget the whole point of our being here, and turn bitter, or very dysfunctional. We don't get the lesson we were suppose to learn. Thanks for this thread, Indigo lady, my neurons are at work now!! Alice

sagitarian	25 Jun 2003
To learn what greed of power feels like and the downfalls of that greed. One name comes to mind, Hitler. Food for thought anyways.

zorya	25 Jun 2003
i believe we choose the lessons we are to learn in each life, rather than the particulars of the life itself. i believe that the more evolved we become, the more likely we are to choose harder, tougher lessons. a higher evolved person would be likely to touch and influence more peoples lives then someone starting out on their journey. the way we learn our lessons is by our choices. we may choose to move on or we may choose the often easier route of staying where we are, or we may become obsessed with power and greed etc. this brings up a question, had hitler made different choices would he have had the potential of becoming more of a mother theresa?

Teranar	25 Jun 2003
Hitler is a prime example of a power hungry nationalist. He had to have been an ancient soul, because he took almost no history, but knew EXACTLY how to manipulate an entire nation to its will. First play to their fears and problems. Lost a world war? Country broke and embarrased? Blame it on the jews! We're germans, the BEST people! The MASTER race! And all those other, lowly races, have caused us to be beaten! We must CLEANSE them, and make room for the Master race! He found a scapegoat, played up german superiority, and ordered weapons built that revitalized the german economy. He got germany out of the gutter by throwing the jews through the gutter straight into the sewer. But what can we learn from him? What lessons can we take away from a man who was able to raise an entire country up using the heads of an entire race? Was tactics, charimatic yet evil, worth it in the end? Let us hope if he is reincarnated he doesn't do the same...

Indigo_lady	25 Jun 2003
I was thinking In a more trivial way mayeb one is a bit too self assured upthere and decides to take on a "big challenge" but then again, I prefer to think that things are a bit more deep and meaningful than that I do agree with you Zorya that we don't choose the particulars of a life. I mean, I don't think that you're handed a list "Check on the experiences you would like to live this next life, box A - head the systematical murder of over 6 million human beings, unleash a world war and change the face of Earth" I mean I seriously doubt that .. then what is self determination, right???? But there are choices where you can clearly forsee the consequences.. lets say you're suposed to pay a bill, but you choose to spend the money on yourself. You know as a consequence that everyone affected by your choice will be utterly furious, and will have to accomodate their lives to their desires... Consequences ranging, from being upset to loosing a house, depending on the kind of bill you were suposed to pay Domino effect And there the lesson wasn't simply "you have to pay your bills on time" . It was probably time to learn the cosequences of being self centered, of responsability, of how everything is linked in this Universe, you know, how your actions and carelessnes will affect others .. and eventually YOU Maybe you make a choice of experiencing certain lessons, you just don't get to choose the degree or the relevance (for lack of a better word), importance, of them... that is probably the surprise... Along these lines, as sagitarian talks about Power, you can learn about Power and its consequences being the boss in your house, in your work, building a comany, being a mafia boss, a cult leader, the head of a research department, or a psycho narcissitic dictator... Maybe you make the choice of what you want to experience, what you want to learn, what choices you want to be faced with ... but *destiny* (again for lack of a better wording) is the one who arranges in what way you will be faced with them???? So why some people would learn about power within a household, others as a part of collective karma, and others as the enemy of humanity???? Singing Tarot, yesss maybe it's easier to gorw when you've been through hard times, because the lessons hit you on the face day in and day out.. so think of it this way, maybe it's more of a task to learn through them by yourself and your development and awareness you develop in that couch... takes a lot more effort Anyways.. I've written too much right now.. I'll come back later But this whole thing reminds me of two phrases that are used I think in most cultures one way or another Everything is a blessing, even in disguise and that *God* nevers faces you with a task or a challenge that you cannot live up to (this one I've been thinking a lot of lately, because of the whole idea in this thread) ;)

Diana	25 Jun 2003
I think some people love doing evil deeds........... Who knows who their gudes are. They are possibly very different to the guides that people like Mother Theresa have. The universe has many realms. There is a constant struggle between light and darkness. Some people come from the light. Some people come from the darkness.

The Why come back as a genocide? thread was originally posted on 25 Jun 2003 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.