Why do people have to ruin perfectly good religions?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 08 Jul 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Brooding	08 Jul 2003
First I have to say this, THIS POST IS ONLY ABOUT PEOPLE WHO FOLLOW THE BIBLE TO A T not about the relaxed christians like myself who dont go to church or at lest seldomly. I have no beef with you I dont want to start another (i swear to much) match like my gender posts earlier and if I offend anyone which i most proably will I am sorry. Why do people have to ruin perfectly good religions? for example hardcore christans the ones who declared rob zombie satanic and condemed harry potter as witch craft and shun the sight of tarot cards, for example the alliance church (here at lest) held an anti Harry Potter rally today now im no fan of Harry Potter but their is absolutely no reason for this. these people are digging graves for their own religions, they wonder why fewer and fewer people are going to church and Atheism and new age is on the rise. Anyone who can follow an ancient book for no reason other than it is there has got to have a few loose screws. Now I have nothing against the Bible it is full of good lesons and etc but lots of it how can you take it seriously? for example: the tower of bable (dont know how to spell that) how could you biuld that massivestructure with primitave tools and using nothing but stone and wood? another example: adam and Eve need I say Inbred? (okay that last bit was off topic) Now who wants to follow a religion that doesent let you listen to good music, read good books, and play great video games like grand theft auto? well I say you dug your own grave now lie in it.

wavebreaker	08 Jul 2003
Why do people ruin perfectly good religions? My answer: because they can't think for themselves and can only follow rules that others set for them...

Baneemy	08 Jul 2003
Quote: Now I have nothing against the Bible it is full of good lesons and etc but lots of it how can you take it seriously? I agree, but I think one of the good lessons in the Bible is "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone." We all have beliefs that others would have trouble taking seriously. To pick a purely hypothetical example, I'm sure many people would find the practice of interpreting randomly selected cards as important messages about one's life just as self-evidently silly as any biblical tall tale. -Baneemy

Dark Inquisitor	08 Jul 2003
[quote]Originally posted by Brooding [b] Why do people have to ruin perfectly good religions? ___a) They have nothing else to do. b) They want to control their insecurities & everyone around them. c) They ask the same question about you. ***for example hardcore christans the ones who declared rob zombie satanic and condemed harry potter as witch craft and shun the sight of tarot cards __Fear & dogma maybe. ***for example: the tower of bable (dont know how to spell that) __If you read the Bible more, you would know how to spell that. ***how could you biuld that massivestructure with primitave tools and using nothing but stone and wood? __We could ask the same thing about the pyramids. But there they are. ***Now who wants to follow a religion that doesent let you listen to good music, read good books, and play great video games like grand theft auto? __Spirituality can require you to sacrifice some things you may think of as fun for the betterment of yourself as a person. For example, I might find it fun to smack the hell out of someone who irritates me. But, restraint in this matter teaches me patience & I will grow as a person instead of becoming a slobbering savage. Tarotphelia

tarotpharot	08 Jul 2003
There are many paths to the mountain. How one gets there isn't near as important as the getting there. The folks you refer to aren't the majority. Where matters such as this are concerned, the most vocal are usually the fanatics - the ones with the most to gain and least to lose. You live in Canada right Brooding? Don't think you have too much to be concerned about from the likes who held the Harry Potter protest. Canada is moving to become the third nation on the planet to legalize gay marriage. It's also primed to decriminalize possession of small amounts of marijuana. And it vocally opposed the US war on Iraq. Looks to me as though you live in one of the most progressive countries in the world. Brad }) TarotPharot

Le_Corsair	08 Jul 2003
Regarding the Tower of Babel, that is a historic archaeological site, it actually did exist. As to whether our ancestors were held back by lack of modern tools, all you need do is look at the pyramids to see that they obviously didn't. Regarding your core issue of hatred in religions, I have to point out that it is mainly the actions of a few that give the majority a bad reputation. Think how many bombs would explode if every Muslim was an Al-Qaeda member; how many abortionists would be murdered if all Christians thought like Eric Robert Rudolf; how many children would be molested if all Catholic priests were pedophiles. All you have to do is review the histories of charitable giving and selflessness connected with religion to realize that it is not in itself a bad thing. Robin Wood, on her website, points out that the core problem is extremism in all its forms. I tend to agree. I leave you with this quote from Donald Hall's book The Dixie Association: "I don't mind when they use Jesus as a crutch, but when they use Him as a club, I have to say something." Glad to see you posting again, Brooding! Bob :THERM :OL :SL :WL :CL

Astra	08 Jul 2003
I've never seen a perfectly good religion, so I can't figure out how people could ruin one. Take any version of the Christian bible, and you can, if you look hard enough, find support for just about any point of view. Some people use religion to try to make themselves better, some use it to support whatever prejudices they have to start with. I don't think that's changed in the last couple of thousand years, people being what they are.

isthmus nekoi	08 Jul 2003
The prob is perhaps a combo of 1) taking things way too literally. The spiritual expresses things through metaphor which can manifest in the material world in a myriad of ways. 2) identification w/the numinous and losing one's ego. It can feel good to lose your ego to anything be it religion or drugs or art or sex. However, this can be very dangerous, and is potentially negative for those w/weak ego integrity. 3) stagnation and rigidification of rituals and symbols. When a religion cannot adapt its symbolic structure to the times meaningfully, that's big trouble. When a religion fails to provide a true connection to the Divine for its followers, it ceases to be spiritual. Tarot is like this too in the sense that the second you completely lose your connection to one's intuition, tarot becomes nothing but fancy pictures on paper.

HudsonGray	08 Jul 2003
You think the tower of Babel was great, take a look at all the Aztec, Incan and Mayan stuctures built in Central & South America. They had NO beasts of burden. There were no cattle in the New World, horses came with the Spaniards & didn't get released till then to repopulate. That left the two largest animals as the deer and the jaguar....neither one was domesticated. So all those massive structrues that were built over there were done strictly with people and back breaking work. I find that extremely impressive.

Macavity	08 Jul 2003
I sense some people will latch onto anything to behave badly... For literal believers, I think a lot is down to poor writing and translation (Know the feeling well! :laugh: ) I remember someone on a documentary, with a lot of literary experience, doing a deconstruction (sic!) of St. Paul. The results were (to me) amazing. Who did the guy MEAN? Hmm: "I, we, them, us, God" - the possibilities were endless! ;) Similarly on one page the Koran blasts "non-subscribers", yet on the very NEXT page says that folk of that same ilk would be welcome in paradise, judged on merit? I think there is good in much religious writings... But, No wonder folk are confused? And some probably want and intend to remain so? Macavity

lunalafey	08 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Astra I've never seen a perfectly good religion, so I can't figure out how people could ruin one. LOL...... & quote: tarotlady Why do people ruin perfectly good religions? My answer: because they can't think for themselves and can only follow rules that others set for them... IMO....religion has become a way to influence people by using the innate desire in all of us to connect with the....universe, god, great spirit....what ever title one wants to use.... I go for a free-form spirituality, yet it is still soiled by the things I have 'seen'. I view the universe in a way that is much like Native american/ pagan/ druid.....very earthy...... BUT....I reciently read a book...."mutant message; down under" by marlo morgan....1995.....I HIGHLY reccommend it to everyone, for the story it tells is true, current & with an extreamly important message from the aborigonies to the people of the world......They live peaceful, religionless (for 1000's of years) lives & are the group today that are connected with the spirit more than any other group (IMO) ....and that's really what religion was supposed to be religion is unneccesary- spirituality is divine! everyone has their own way of connecting......it just needs to be kept real!

wavebreaker	08 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by lunalafey BUT....I reciently read a book...."mutant message; down under" by marlo morgan....1995.....I HIGHLY reccommend it to everyone, for the story it tells is true, current & with an extreamly important message from the aborigonies to the people of the world......They live peaceful, religionless (for 1000's of years) lives & are the group today that are connected with the spirit more than any other group (IMO) ....and that's really what religion was supposed to be I agree about the spirituality of the Aboriginals, what I've read about it is wonderful. But don't believe anything Marlo Morgan writes, because her books are fake. She claims to have gotten all her information from an Aboriginal tribe, but it's all fiction and doesn't resemble the truth. Aboriginal Elders have protested against it and she finally admitted that she made it all up and apologised to them. Here's some more info about this. Sorry to disappoint you... ;) But to get back to the subject: I personally see spirituality as a strong connection to nature as well, difficult though that may seem for us in our modern lives surrounded by concrete. I don't think we need books to tell us how to live our lives, if we just turn back to nature and our own inner nature and listen to it...

Macavity	08 Jul 2003
I suspect that one's propensity to be religious is also somewhat inate. It would have made the "aboriginal" observations interesting? Sometimes it can be induced by life-changing events, which are often reflected in our biochemistry. But I think this goes some way to explaining why some people seem to need it whereas others have no interest, despite (usually external) efforts ? ;) On the other hand, it could be quite "situational", given the significant variations on national lines. (jokingly) A fair number of the baptist/methodist wing of my family emigrated to the US and Canada in the mid-19th century, so you now know who to thank/blame? In their absence, the UK has, naturally enough, become increasingly secular :laugh: Macavity

DarkElectric	08 Jul 2003
People will do what they do, and believe what they want to believe, no matter how irritating that is to other people who insist that "Their Way" is the right way. And what constitutes religion anyway?A fervent belief in something? I know people who use their political agendas as their religion. Or their personal ones. These Fundamentalist ...(Insert chosen whatever here) all seem to share this deep seated and what I would consider, pathological need to control other people. It's all about thought/behaviour control. Religion, Politics,how similar they are, and quite good at this. So, tell me. Why do some people insist that their way is "The Right Way" ?

SingingTarot	08 Jul 2003
I personally just left a very strong christian church. It was not easy. About the comments on the topic of the Tower of Babel and Adam and Eve, I don't know if it's supposed to be taken at face value but maybe as metaphorical, symbolic lesson. And as far as inbreeding goes, Egyptians pharaohs married their sisters, and it was very common with early Hebrews to marry close relatives (Abraham, Jocob...) Read the Bible, you'll see. I think the Old Testament is definitely hard to understand, I always say that Joshua and I would have had a problem. The New Testamaent however is much more.... loving I'd say. But again, Paul and I would have had a problem. As far as your questions goes, like many people have already mentioned, anything can be bad if taken to the extreme. I think a lot of "hard core" christians feel invested of the responsibility to save the world. They feel they have to impose their opinion and beliefs on others, because the rest of the world doesn't seem to be able to make a decision for itself and is going straight down to hell :)) Just laugh it off, nobody can stop the forward motion of the world. And the fact that some minorities are off the wall should not turn people against the whole religion. Christians or others. To end this loooong post, I highly recommend the Book "mutant message down under". I personally do not care whether it is true or not, it touched my heart very deeply and forced me to reconsider a lot of things. And that's a good thing right? Alice

lunalafey	09 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by tarotlady But don't believe anything Marlo Morgan writes, because her books are fake. She claims to have gotten all her information from an Aboriginal tribe, but it's all fiction and doesn't resemble the truth. Aboriginal Elders have protested against it and she finally admitted that she made it all up and apologised to them. what a shame......well, even fiction can 'open doors'....look at the Celestine Prophecy.

zorya	09 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by DarkElectric So, tell me. Why do some people insist that their way is "The Right Way" ? maybe because, if they allowed themselves to believe their way might be wrong, they would be left with questions... unanswered questions. scary questions. if they believe that their way is the only way. everything they are taught must be right. everything has an answer. follow the 'rules' the 'plan' and all will end well. maybe

The Enchanter	09 Jul 2003
I’ve posted a long while back about the bible being against tarot cards and I got a lot of (fill blank) from some of the other people on this site. I don’t believe in anything that the bible has to say. Well I do, but I don’t. Everything in the bible contradicts itself. You can obviously tell humans wrote it, and they did! Humans are inferior. I should know I’m one of them. I’m very religious (Lutheran). I read the bible. But I do things that God himself tells me. Everything I do I usually check with him/her (no one knows for sure what he/she is) before I do them. I have a very personal relationship with God. He told me that Harry Potter isn’t a bad thing. It’s interesting to children and it’s something that makes kids WANT to read! And I tend to believe he tells me to do things so I can understand life and other’s lives better. I don’t really have a religion. I have my own. If you do have a personal relationship with God he will give you knowledge, good reasoning, good understanding, and overlook of other’s lives and the world. God gives us what we need (I believe faithfully). I usually don’t write this much because I like to get to the point. But when I comes to God I can tell you much. I love God with all the heart I have. He lets me do witchcraft and stuff as long as I use it reasonably and fair. I know he will take these abilities away if I disobey. Same with my psychic powers, I believe he has taken them away for a while, because I had used them for a wrong reason and I believe he wanted me to realize something. I had just realized what I needed and he gave me my powers back on Saturday. Ofcourse he helped me find it out. Actually I asked him something, and he told me right out… “Yes, there is a plan”. I just obeyed and rewarded I’ve become and a new level of understanding. I’ve never put something like that together with so much feeling. So I hope you understood it and enjoyed it. If you have any questions about anything…please do PM me. I would LOVE to hear your questions. And I would LOVE to answer those questions. I would like to spread the “true” words of God. If anyone else has a personal relationship with God and would like to compare anything or ask questions then please PM me. Peace out! I think I will start my own thread with this statement.

waterdreamer	15 Jul 2003
i agree, i was raised in a roman cathoic home, and when i go to church on sundays, the priest would start off by saying thou should not judge. then carry on in the homaly to condem gays, pagans, and jews? i think it is so hypicritacal! monique

LadyMedusa	15 Jul 2003
It is because of the hypocritical, need to clean out their own closets before poking their nose in mine, power tripping, twisting the word of God to suit their own adgenda, type of calling themselves christians, that I have not set foot in a church for any other service besides a very few weddings and 2 funerals in the last 15 years. If what I saw and experienced is Christianity* then they can keep it to themselves. LadyMedusa *For the record I don't know what book they got their ideas from but it was not the BIBLE I read and still read.

HudsonGray	15 Jul 2003
You know, as a kid growing up Catholic, I remember about age 9 that the priest NEVER used most of the bible in the sermons, it was always the same ones over & over all year, going back over them year in & year out--when a 9 year old starts thinking questions like this, it's no wonder people get disenchanted with what they're supposed to believe in church. I started reading the bible (yes, got past all the Begats even) and wondered even more why very little of the old testament was being talked about other than the standard Daniel in the Lion's Den, Pharaoh and a few others. Start thinking for yourself & looking deeper lets you really know when there's a lack starting to show & the urge starts to look elsewhere for a really strong connection to something spiritual. The bible's great as a tool, but the application really lacks in modern society--and even though that tool was there to use privately, my stronger connection came from nature & other things, so I shifted. If everyone spent good time just looking at what they have, what's available and what they need, then made their own choices without basing anything on fear, I think we'd get a really turned around world here. But we all know that's not going to happen. You have to 1. Read, and 2. Think, then 3. Make A Decision.

The Why do people have to ruin perfectly good religions? thread was originally posted on 08 Jul 2003 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.