Timing Systems

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 23 Jul 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

tigerlily	23 Jul 2002
I normally don't use timing cards, because I don't use Tarot for fortune telling, but for advice - which means I have to get up and act instead of waiting for something to happen.... However, I have created a problem-solving spread and decided on a whim that I'll include a "timing" card. Only after my first test run did it occur to me that I could read the card in three different ways (it was the 9/Wands, btw): 1) The point in time when something will happen (i.e. "in 9 days") 2) A period of time ("do this for 9 days") 3) As soon as I manage to develop the attitude depicted on the card ("act when you feel strong and confident") I have an Astrology book about Chiron that talks about the difference between "chronos" and "kairos", the quantitative, measurable time and the qualitative, unique "right time" for something (unfortunately, it's in a box on my attic, so I can't go deeper into it now). I'll have to give some more thought to this, because I feel it's an eminently important concept for Tarot - after all, that's what Tarot is about: the right time to act. But in the meantime, I made up a timing system (of the "chronos" variety) to test out: I only use the Minors. The Aces are for the Solstices and Equinoxes (so it's only one day for each Ace). The other 13 cards per Suit stand for the 13 weeks of each season. Following my elemental designations for the Courts, I have Cups/Water for Spring, Wands/Fire for Summer, Disks/Earth for Autumn and Swords/Air for Winter. What system do you use?

emily2otters	23 Jul 2002
there's an article that you can find with the link in the "missing card theory" thread on the "talking tarot" forum. not my cup o' tea, but an interesting perspective.

Umbrae	23 Jul 2002
My approach to timing will be different. Keep a notebook/journal. Write down all spreads (cards and Interps). Even using cards for Advice and not divinatory purposes, you should begin to see timing patterns develop. It is different for everybody. The other key to keeping a journal is when you have major life changes, your timing system will change. Should you use a static timing system (this means this and that means that), you may discover that is too rigid. The right time to act also depends on the unfolding of the event you are acting upon (that made no sense…). Let me try this. I have found that timing is more loosey Goosey than other aspect. There are so many variables involved for an event to be ready for you. Am I making sense?

HOLMES	23 Jul 2002
i read this one book that said wands sumer, cups spring, pentacles fall and swords winter. furthermore it said pages were days i think knight week, queen monts and king years . beats me though that is the hardest thing to get down is when ... and i usally give the answer when it comes

Kath	24 Jul 2002
I try not to give times. If a client is after a timeline of events, I do a spread asking something like 'what will happen regarding in the next 4 weeks?'. I use a system similar to you regarding suits and seasons. My associations are slightly different Cups = spring Wands = summer Swords = autumn Pentacles = winter The number of the card indicates the weeks ie 8 of pents would be the 8th week of winter. Cheers Kath

tigerlily	24 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Kath The number of the card indicates the weeks ie 8 of pents would be the 8th week of winter. Cheers Kath Yes, that's exactly my thought! I see that most of you tend to avoid the chronological timing, and I think the reason is that chronological time, measured in days and years, doesn't say anything about the qualitative aspect - i.e, kairos. That's the reason I avoided the timing question myself (and I read the Tarot for 16 years now - tells you how much I feared the subject ;) ). But I've come to think that there must be a way to pin down the right moment to act in Tarot, too - something like the Transit system in Astrology. A most elegant system to link qualitative and quantitative time, IMO: you look at the calendar (chronos) and determine the quality of the day via the transiting/aspecting/etc. planets (kairos). I've tried something similar with my Celtic Cross, where the 10th cards is "the quality of time"; I just never thought of comparing it with the transits of the day. Now here's a thought...

Major Tom	25 Jul 2002
Eileen Connolly uses a similar system in Chapter 12 of her book Tarot - A New Handbook for the Apprentice. The only difference from what has been described here is that she uses the Aces to determine the season... Personally, in my readings I tend to avoid chronological time and try to focus on the right time to act. })

Cerulean	03 Aug 2002
Paul's UK Supertarot site draws upon some Golden Dawn and old astrological systems: http://www.supertarot.co.uk/astro/timing.htm I'm still researching this, but I think Taviglione's Stairs of Gold might refer to degrees or decans (10 day periods) for each card. The Caligstro, designed in 1910, has divisions of about 10 day astrological periods for cards as well. Paul's Tarot site has a chart that explains the timing suggestions, if you want to read that way. But then the assignments of the courts are a bit more complex. For instance, my June 15 birthdate, Gemini, would be associated with Queen of Cups. I'm not certain I explained it well: hope that Paul's site is clear or helpful. Mari H.

Strega	03 Aug 2002
I use a slightly different association: Wands = Spring Cups = Summer Swords = Fall Pentacles = Winter Aces stand for the 1st week of the season... twos stand for the week after... and so on... Kings (for me) could indicate that it was completed last year at this time. Queens could indicate that it was completed in the previous season. :)

Alex	20 Oct 2002
I also don't have a clue as to how to determine time given for example a celtic cross or any other regular spread. Do people usually include a time component in their spreads, I mean, a position that supposedly would tell the time of an event or the time span of situation? Quote: Originally posted by Mari_Hoshizaki Paul's UK Supertarot site draws upon some Golden Dawn and old astrological systems: http://www.supertarot.co.uk/astro/timing.htm

Mojo	20 Oct 2002
Figuring time in a reading is a long and complicated affair. After I tell me clients that I don't find them particularly accurate and that it will double the cost of their original reading, most people forget about it.

catlin	21 Oct 2002
Hey, Mojo, great idea, I like that!!!

Francesca	21 Oct 2002
I haven't looked for a timing in the cards since I first began to learn the cards in my early 20's and they said it would be many years before I found a loving relationship, so I have always avoided it. (the cards were right too.) But reading these threads it occurs to me that timing could happen by a sign. For instance, you draw, say, the 8 of Pentacles. I might interpret it to say, "When you finish this project, it is time to act" or "When you finish the work, then this will happen." The timing card could indicate a marker to look for rather than an amount of time. Francesca

DeLani	26 Oct 2002
Right on, Francesca. When looking at timing, trying to put the cards into a time system seems too rigid, too artificial. I look at three things: 1. The meaning of the card, as Francesca said. 2. The astrological correspondences of the card - like the 2 of Swords is Moon in Libra, so maybe when the moon is in Libra. If it's a planet that won't be in that sign for years (like Saturn or sometimes Jupiter), I look at the sign it's in, and think, maybe, when the sun is in that sign. But this can (and often is) overruled by 3. My intuition. Usually CC spreads cover from one week (at the very shortest) to one year (the longest). Usually around 6 mos., more or less. Timing has never been very strong for me. Like, "when the time is right" is more what I get. But it is infuriating when you are on the passive end of something and really, really want to know when it's going to happen. Blessings, DeLani

january	08 Nov 2002
I feel that life itself as well as its variables are too subjective to attach such a rigid time on a reading. And by reading with such tight timing guidelines can foster disappointment. For example, what if you told someone that they'd get their promotion on the 1st of September and it didn't happen? I feel that quality and what is feasable for the querant is more important to timing. I agree with those of you who mentioned "when you've done this, accepted that and thought about the other thing, then it will happen". Sometimes I let the pictures on the cards give a hint to timing. For example, in the Spiral deck, the 3 of Cups has a pumpkin on it. This may indicate Thanksgiving or harvest time (when the Beajoulais Nouveau comes out ;)). Anthony Louis mentions in his book that sometimes the 8 of cups can allude to "one lunar cycle". The Sun can mean Sunday. The cards are visual and if your intuition clicks with a visual element, then go with it. Outside of timing, I often let the cards indicate places. For example, one reading I did for myself back in the early spring, to get some insight into my lovelife and the six of Wands appeared. In the Spiral Deck, it shows a jockey on his winning horse. Well, well, well - I met my new boyfriend at a Kentucky Derby Party. Funny, huh? The Chariot can point to a car dealership. The Sun can indicate a vacation. 6 of Pentacles? A charity drive. And when a place is indicated, then the time is as well.... when is that charity function you plan to go to? I guess my point in all of this is that the cards can give hints and suggestions to all aspects of situations - emotions, actions, places, people and timing. And to be too rigid can leave out some really great points to ponder. Tarot is an art and thus should be purposeful yet unrestricted.

Talisman	08 Nov 2002
'Lo all, I suppose this question depends on whether or not you believe events are foreordained doesn't it? (There is a word for this doctrine that -- obviously -- isn't anywhere near the tip of my tongue.) If you believe life is predestinate, everything is foretold, then you have a target to shoot at. I don't believe this (whatever the word is). "Personally, in my readings I tend to avoid chronological time and try to focus on the right time to act." -- Major Tom I'll go along with (or follow behind) Major Tom here. If the room is on fire, it might be a good time to jump out the window. If the "action to be taken" card in a spread is the 4 of Swords, and the room is on fire, I might -- very quickly -- decide my reading talents were sadly lacking, then jump out the window. Just remember, "He who hesitates is lost," and, "Look before you leap." All bases are covered. Talisman

Keslynn	08 Nov 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Talisman 'Lo all, I suppose this question depends on whether or not you believe events are foreordained doesn't it? (There is a word for this doctrine that -- obviously -- isn't anywhere near the tip of my tongue.) Talisman Not necessarily. I don't believe that things are all planned out. However, I do believe that tarot, like astrology, shows potentials. And if you follow the advice that the tarot is giving, then the predicted outcome will most likely happen. It's like a weather report. Even if there's only a chance it'll rain, you still want to know when so you can carry an umbrella. Also, if you're going through a hard time, you'd probably like to know when it will end. A tarot reading can show that, but it also takes into account the knowledge of how that person is handling the bad times. I hope that made sense. Oh and january, I love the idea of place! I never would have thought to have looked at things this way, but I can see that it's very useful. I'll have to add that to my tarot journal. :) Kes

MeeWah	08 Nov 2002
I do not use a set system to read timing, so mine is flexible to permit possibilities. If one believes in pre-destiny, then one tends to tip the scales for a set outcome; a self-fulfilling prophecy (that can still work depending on the goal). At times, there is a sense of time that is usually associated with a minor arcana & occasionally, a Major Arcana. It depends on the rest of throw. I also use seasonal correspondences with the minor arcana. On those occasions, the number or an image on a card will tell me if the time period is days, weeks or months. If the card is a Major, it can mean "whenever the lesson is learned" or "when the time is right". My understanding is that Universe knows that a lesson or outcome relies more upon the individual pace or choice than outside intervention (except perhaps in unusual circumstances) which cannot be rushed nor forced. One has the choice of taking as long as desired or needed to arrive at the destination; hence, the "when the time is right" tends to indicate the responsibility for the fruition of a thing is in the hands of the querent; that of free will. The only spread I use that includes an actual "Timing" card is an Extended Celtic Cross of 15 cards. The last card is the timing card but in itself does not necessarily provide a specific time, only a general time since the "time" at which something occurs is dependent on other variables such as mentioned above & one of which is mentioned by Keslynn. Like anything else associated with readings, the intuitive grasp of a situation or likelihood is what serves best.

cormac	13 Jun 2005
i'm sure i'm missing something in this discussion that answers this question so sorry to bother but ... if the 'timing card' (i'm using tigerlily's problem-solving spread) is from the Major Arcana, the astrological sign associated with that is the time frame 'whatever' will occur? in other words, the card in the timing place is The World -- the world from what i have read, does not have a ruling sign and is not listed in the timing list referenced ( http://www.supertarot.co.uk/astro/timing.htm ) -- so the world's ruling planet is saturn, saturn is the ruling planet also for capricorn, so the dates would be between dec 22nd thru jan 19 is that right?

WalesWoman	13 Jun 2005
I don't try to do timing readings, but sometimes the cards do give clues. If any of them have the moon in them in various phases, I may ask them to take note of any changes happening around those times and consulte the calander to see when those might happen. That things will occur within those phases. I also use the timing events chart at supertarot, but haven't keep a journal to see if they've been accurate or not. For some reason 10 Swords has come up a lot in these sorts of questions and I ususally associate it, or any 10 or World with the end of a season, month or some sort of time period when things reach a conclusion and a change occurs. So far it has been fairly accurate.

Flidais	13 Jun 2005
cormac wrote: ...so the world's ruling planet is saturn, saturn is the ruling planet also for capricorn, so the dates would be between dec 22nd thru jan 19. is that right? It depends. Some astrologers say that Saturn also rules Aquarius.

cormac	13 Jun 2005
Flidais wrote: It depends. Some astrologers say that Saturn also rules Aquarius. so using the chart at the link in my previous post, is that right?

Flidais	13 Jun 2005
cormac wrote: so using the chart at the link in my previous post, is that right? As far as the dates that apply to the sign Capricorn, yes, it would be December 22-January 19.

cormac	13 Jun 2005
thanks :)

The Timing Systems thread was originally posted on 23 Jul 2002 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.