my deck is spooking me out! :P

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 11 Dec 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

pozt	11 Dec 2002
Was doing a reading for a guy friend who just gotten into a new relationship. Actually I dunno this guy very well, so I did a few different spreads to get a clearer picture. Do u know what the spookiest thing is??? I used the Major Arcana and for all those different spreads regarding their relationship, the picture was NEGATIVE, and 2 cards kept appearing: the empress (core of situation) and a high priestess (in the "hidden" aspect). Can these cards ever represent PEOPLE? 'coz a close friend of this guy confided to me that this guy actually still has strong feelings for his old gf. Thanks, 'coz I don't want to appear like I'm giving a wrong reading!!!

Trogon	11 Dec 2002
Not sure if you're posting about the readings in general (and the meanings for The Empress and High Priestess) or about the fact that you did different readings and still kept coming up with essentially the same information. I, personally, try to refrain from doing multiple readings on the same subject in a very short period of time, say during the same sitting, or even the same day. The few times I have done this, I've had either a similar experience to yours (different readings with essentially the same message), or the readings just get more confused. I have found that, for me, if I have a reading which doesn't seem to give a clear message, I need to do one of three things: 1) Continue to study it and look deeper - it may be trying to tell me something beyond what I'm asking about. 2) Write it down and come back to it later for further study as I may just be blocked at that time, just not getting it. 3) Draw one or two "clarifying" cards - cards to add to the ones that are confusing me to give further insight. One of, or a combination of two or all three, usually gives me the answer I need. Now... having said that... thinking about the Empress and High Priestess... basing my thoughts on the Rider-Waite decks, not knowing what deck you're using, or what the rest of the cards drawn were... The core of the situation being The Empress makes me think there are some very strong emotions involved, but with The High Priestess in a "hidden aspect" position... I wonder if your male friend isn't harboring some sort of strong emotions for another woman - though I feel that this "other woman" may be more of an idealistic image of the perfect woman that he wants. She may not even exist in reality, but it is the woman he's searching for and these feelings and this desire to find the "perfect woman" may interfere with his ability to have a long-lasting and meaningful relationship. ... Just my thoughts on it... :D I do reserve the right to be totally wrong... ;)

pozt	11 Dec 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Trogon The core of the situation being The Empress makes me think there are some very strong emotions involved, but with The High Priestess in a "hidden aspect" position... I wonder if your male friend isn't harboring some sort of strong emotions for another woman - though I feel that this "other woman" may be more of an idealistic image of the perfect woman that he wants. She may not even exist in reality, but it is the woman he's searching for and these feelings and this desire to find the "perfect woman" may interfere with his ability to have a long-lasting and meaningful relationship. ... Just my thoughts on it... :D I do reserve the right to be totally wrong... ;) I'd say that you are possibly quite on the spot! I don't know this guy very well, but his bestfriend did tell me mr. X (that guy) is an idealistic person who fantasises about the "perfect woman" who never does anything wrong, yet because of this, goes through many unhappy relationships. But on the other hand, this guy has been harbouring feelings of love towards his ex for some time even after the breakup...his best friend thinks it's quite strange that practically "overnight" he goes off and dates someone else when just a few days ago he was still quite besotted with his ex! But of course, that is all hearsay...I will be doing more readings2-3 days later to get a better picture...using 22 cards doesn't exactly spoil you for choice! But I'm not confident about using 78 cards..... speaking of which, I use The Classical Tarot (lo scarabeo).

Eviemay	11 Dec 2002
Why do you keep repeating the reading? Where you dissatisfied with the first ansewer you got? Why are you surprised that the cards keep giving you the same ansewer, when you keep repeating the same question? Just some thoughts. :) Blessings, Evie

DeLani	11 Dec 2002
I have to agree with Eviemay and Trogon on this...step away from the cards! Doing multiple readings on the same subject in a short period of time is not only useless (they will either give you the same answer or none at all), it only confuses you. I would highly suggest waiting until something actually happens (he asks you out, whatever) before doing another spread, and then by all means use the whole deck! I for one am a firm believer that you can't get a very accurate reading with only the majors. Trust your intuition! And, if all else fails, post the reading here on aecletic! :)

pozt	11 Dec 2002
well, one of the reasons why i did multiple readings was coz my friends say it's okay to do them, AND it can also give me further insight/better picture to the situation at hand.

Thirteen	11 Dec 2002
Have to agree with others here. Your friends are wrong. You only do multiple readings IF the reading you originally did was very unclear and clarification cards (additional cards set down near parts of the spread that confused you) didn't help. If you did a spread and the message you got the first time round was loud and unmistakable, no need to do another reading. You'll just force the cards to keep repeating themselves. UNLESS, of course, what you mean is that you started out with something very large and broad, like the Celtic Cross, then did a smaller "follow-up" spreads to zoom in on a particular aspect of the larger spread--rather like turning a lens on a microscope to hone in on a single cell of the organism. If THAT's what you did, then fine--though even that should not be overdone. If, however, you just repeated Celtic Cross after Celtic Cross, you likely confused rather than clarifyed the issue. --> And the answer to your main question--can certain cards in the majors be interpeted as people? *Absolutely*

pozt	13 Dec 2002
thanks to everyone for clearing things up. now i know what NOT to do. :P

Trogon	14 Dec 2002
Quote: Originally posted by pozt thanks to everyone for clearing things up. now i know what NOT to do. :P One thing you will always get around here is tons of advice! :laugh: I don't think that I would say you should never do multiple readings on a given question. However, it just hasn't worked for me. I would say that if you do a second reading on the question and get essentially the same answer... well, you've got the answer. I've never tried a reading using only the Major Arcana. I know that quite a few people here at A.T. do this and recommend it. Many also suggest that one should use only the Majors when one is first learning the Tarot. But there is so much information, so many emotions, so much life experience depicted in the Minor Arcana that I would feel that I was depriving myself of so much detail. Early on I'd learned (from a book by Eden Gray) that the presence of many Majors in a reading has significance. By the same token, when a suit is missing, or in the majority, this has significance. I've also always felt that the Major Arcana frequently deal with larger issues and many times the Minors deal with the minutiae of day-to-day living. For instance, The Tower might tell of a terrific upheaval in someone's life, whereas the 7 of Swords can indicate the more minor upheaval of being the victim of a theft. Then, when you combine these two cards, they work together... The point being that, in my personal opinion, without the Minor Arcana (suits, pips, whatever you want to call them) you're leaving out a large part of life from your readings. (I was going to say something about not playing with a full deck.... :joke: )

pozt	15 Dec 2002
Yes, I've been using the major arcana for quite some time now, and it's always given me some comfort coz they're like "training wheels" to me. :D I've considered using the minors as well, but tried it once and found it 1. confusing 2. difficult to handle (shuffling, flipping)

Trogon	15 Dec 2002
Quote: Originally posted by pozt Yes, I've been using the major arcana for quite some time now, and it's always given me some comfort coz they're like "training wheels" to me. :D I've considered using the minors as well, but tried it once and found it 1. confusing 2. difficult to handle (shuffling, flipping) LOL... "training wheels"!! :laugh: I like that! As for using the Minors... There is certainly a learning curve to be overcome with these, but using a deck with illustrated Minors, such as the Rider-Waite-Smith, the Thoth or "clones" of these might be helpful. I'm not familiar with the Classic Tarot, but from sample cards shown on TarotGarden.com it looks as though the Minor arcana are relatively unillustrated? I think this is what made the Tarot of Marseilles so difficult for me to use. The other decks I own all have much more illustrated Minors, these illustrations help to trigger my mind to interpret them. As for handling the "full deck" ;) ... I use a slightly different method of shuffling my larger decks (such as the Röhrig Tarot). This involves taking the 2 halves of the deck, holding them near the ends (the outside ends when the halves are butted together). You then but the two halves together and gently, but firmly slide the 2 halves in opposite directions while at the same time flexing the cards upwards. If you do try this method I highly recommend practicing on decks of regular playing cards till you have it right. Also, don't use it on decks printed on relatively flimsy, uncoated paper stock. The edges of the cards can split, ruining the cards. It is difficult to explain this method of shuffling... perhaps I should do a short video? Wonder if there'd be much interest?

Diana	15 Dec 2002
My personal opinion is that is is unhelpful to learn the minors with decks that have illustrated minors. They tend to impose their images in our minds, and we find it hard to get rid of them to open up to our OWN thoughts, imagination and intuition. Other people have done the work for us, and imprint their ideas on our minds. It's like a kid going to see Harry Potter at the movies before reading the book. Forever and ever, even when they read the books, they will have a picture of Harry or Ron or Snape in their mind - but not their own picture, the one that was provided for them conveniently by the movie. A person who goes to see the Lord of the Rings before reading the book will never be able to imagine Frodo differently to the actor that portrays him in the movie. It's the same with the Tarot. I would suggest first learning about elements, numbers (as jmd has sometimes pointed out, a basic understanding of numerology is not that hard to acquire - far easier than for a child who has to learn the alphabet or those darned multiplication tables.) Don't let yourself be spoon-fed. Even if the spoon is made of gold. Then once you understand how elements and numbers fit together, it can be useful to study the illustrated minors, to get an idea of how other people have understood these elements and numbers. The key to understanding Tarot comes from your own heart. Not from other people's hearts, because we are all different. Of course, while one is studying the pips, nothing is stopping us from drawing our own pictures, or write poems, or make up a tune if one is a musician, to help us get deeper into the meanings.

The my deck is spooking me out! :P thread was originally posted on 11 Dec 2002 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.