four of cups - push-me-pull-you?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 01 Nov 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

full deck	01 Nov 2003
I'm curious what others might make of the implications of this card when choosen for a woman. The four/emperor association and its focus upon ordering and the almost constricting nature of this process seems at odds with the emotional nature of the cups suit. I had taken this to imply a women, trapped within a constricting situation, i.e., job, marriage, that they were a part of by choice. What other ideas do you guys have about this card I wonder . . . ?

Inana	01 Nov 2003
Your interpretation sounds fine. Though i dont understand why the meaning has to be different for a woman or a man. Four of cups to me is about stagnation and endless boredom. I dont like this card. When it shows uses to mean apathy and those kind of isolation one can feel when surrounded by people. One is traped in the routine, hoping better times will come, but not doing nothing for changing the situation. Its all about procrastination. Order and routine can kill all the feelings and dreams. When water is not moving it gets stagnant and if its for long time, rotten. Other possibles interpretations might be the need of puting some order on your feelings. Thats no fun. Feelings are chaotic by nature.

gloria	01 Nov 2003
One interpretation I have of the RW 4/Cups is representing temptation. But as you can see, the guy in the picture resists, can't be tempted by the offer. Hereby showing self-control. The Emporer too is associated with self-control. Just a few thoughts, Gloria.

Inana	01 Nov 2003
Hey, Gloria! Thats a very interesting interpretation that i have never considered before. Thanks much for that insight.

Thirteen	01 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Inana When water is not moving it gets stagnant and if its for long time, rotten. That's a really excellent point. The "push-me-pull-you" works as well, given that the person is often stuck and stagnating between the lure of that other temptation/desire, but the duty (read Emperor there) of staying put. The Emperor card can be read that way, by the by, as someone who, having taken command, now finds himself stuck on that throne. A person who feels that the whole kingdom will collapse without him and, much as he wants to leave, doesn't dare. In such a situation, the Emperor can grow childish, obnoxious. With the 4 cups, this is even worse. The person grows peevish and ceases to care. Here's a slightly graphic example since you mentioned a woman in particular: Think of those movies where the man and woman (husband and wife?) are making love; the man's into it, but the woman is gazing listlessly at the clock. That's the most chilling image of 4/cups that pops to my mind.

Lethe	01 Nov 2003
One of the descriptions in my Golden Dawn is - " Success or pleasure approaching an end. A stationary period in happiness which may or may not continue". So it seems like stagnation is certainly approaching and that one really needs to find a lot of stimulus to avoid it. For me something I can relate to is when I spend a couple of days at home doing very little, I start to feel so lethagic that it becomes harder and harder to do anything intensifying the situation!

Lady Mary	01 Nov 2003
The RWS-deck shows a man sitting under a tree and out of a cloud someone offers him a cup. So what's in this cup? Is he going to take this cup? Might be something delicious inside. For me this card always signifies a possible positive turn after a time of stagnation. The fourth cup is right here and with it the promise of something new. A new hope.

Thirteen	01 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Lady Mary For me this card always signifies a possible positive turn after a time of stagnation. The fourth cup is right here and with it the promise of something new. A new hope. That's one possiblity. But I've always felt that whatever that 4th cup promises, our guy under the tree doesn't have the energy or willpower to get up and take it. And one has to wonder, is that that 4th cup even real? Our guy has three real cups around him, there on the ground--but he's apparently not satisfied with them (are they empty?). He's more interested in that cup up in the clouds there. This follows along in the sequence of the cups if you think about it. 2/Cups, the man and woman meet and they think each other is WONDERFUL, they've eyes only for each other. 3/Cups they marry, families unite and delight in each other. 4/Cups...uh-oh. Honeymoon is over. There's grocery shopping and morgages to pay, and sometimes you come home from work too tired to be romantic. And that's when a husband or a wife might wonder, "What did I get myself into?" They might think that all the joy of those 3 cups has been drained dray. And they might start daydreaming about something/someone fresh and new. Someone/something to stimulate them, end the dissatisfaction they're feeling. That might well be your fourth cup there. And that's what leads us to 5/cups...where those three cups our 4/cups had upright are now spilled and our man stares down at them with regret and remorse. Don't forget that 4/cups is also related to indulgences--over eating, over drinking and even drug taking. Which might account for why the guy under the tree doesn't feel like he's going to be getting up even if that cloud cup is making him thirsty. I remember pulling 4/cups repeatedly for a man who, when I asked, admitted he was a recovering addict. The card can be a warning not to over do things--food, drink, drugs, sex, internet chat rooms...talk about procrastination and stagnation.

paradoxx	01 Nov 2003
It feels like the young man wants to be left alone to make his own decisions (he can't be too picky though) and is willing to take the cup but only under his conditions. He is reluctant to relinquish control of his situation even to a higher power without proper security in place. otherwise, the cup being given to him could be full of poison.

full deck	02 Nov 2003
All comments were interesting and helpful. I had already been pulled in the direction of "13"s description of it all and tend to describe it much in that way. This was a card used to describe a woman and I'm double-checking myself to make sure I get it right.

The four of cups - push-me-pull-you? thread was originally posted on 01 Nov 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.