Call me a heathen ...

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 30 Dec 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

allibee	30 Dec 2003
... if you will, but I have come to the conclusion that I wish that tarot cards merely had a name, not a pretty picture on... I guess that will set a cat amongst the pidgeons :) I have spent a loooooong time learning to be a tarot reader, and am having a fair bit of success commercially now too, but when I lay a card for a question, I never, ever look at the pictures anymore. Instead across my mind flits a hundred different facets of the cards in text form from my combined learnings from here, the net, books, my journals ... until it alights a candle on the story that is being told through the cards, and a blooming great flame leaps out with a really strong message that really has absolutely nothing to do with the pictures on the cards at all. Then the next one, and the next one until a solid and new picture forms of a complete situation or scenario. Maybe it's because I learned initially on the Prediction Deck that has very minimal illustrations for the Majors, and non pictorial pips, that maybe in a way I have learned to do without any visual signposts... and sometimes lately I don't even have to lay the cards.... but the question is: Are pictures *that* important to a tarot reading? (allibee waits for the purists to raise up in arms, lol) All your views and comments will be gratefully received allibee

Indigo Rose	30 Dec 2003
The pictures are very important to me in doing a reading because it is the imagery of the pictures that I find enriching in my life, and my readings. I don't like cards with little or no imagery in the pictures. For me that is the point of Tarot.....much like Egyptians told their stories through hieroglyphics.....Tarot represents a picture story of the Human journey. As for the readings, I think each reading is unique and the message of these pictures change with the question, the querent, and the surrounding cards. TO EACH his/her own...but for me....YES THE PICTURES ARE THAT IMPORTANT! :) Blessings! Indigo Rose

ros	30 Dec 2003
Congratulations, my guess is that your at a new level of awareness, Enjoy!

Melvis	30 Dec 2003
Hee...you are brave, Allibee! A wonderfully bold thread idea! :D While I am a founding member of the Pretty Pictures Society of Tarot Readers, I do know what you mean about the illustrations getting in the way sometimes. That's one reason I like using the Synchro-Signs oracle tiles. (There's a thread about them here: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18751 ) The picture on each tile is so basic that it doesn't carry any 'baggage' as it were. But, as I read your comments one thought keeps coming to the front of my mind: Methinks you are being influenced on a subconscious level by...Umbrae???!!! Because your description of a reading sounds a lot like the way he describes his readings! :D Perhaps our Aeclectic ways are become Seditious... ;) Peace, Melvis :TSTRE

allibee	30 Dec 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Melvis Methinks you are being influenced on a subconscious level by...Umbrae???!!! Now wash your mouth out with soap young Melvis, lol Actually I have just gone and read his chaos theory post and laughed because for once, I really feel like I understand you Umbrae!!! When he reminded us of the toothpick readings threads, it kinda all fell into place, but I have to tell you Melvis that I'm an illustrator by profession, and pretty pictures are my business, lol ... but not when it comes to tarot for some reason :( I think I like Ros's take on it ... I thought I was losing the plot actually :) allibee

ros	30 Dec 2003
O.K. one more idea. Mabee you are past the point of being afraid of not being correct. You are just ready to go with the flow & don't need the tools for conformation & also telling a client why the card mean this or that. Now you just say it & that's that!

jmd	30 Dec 2003
The images are there to give shape and form to that which is beyond them... I also note that you work with images every day. I tend to agree with Ros, in that with the deeper acquisition of the images, one also transcends them, and they begin to speak - true to themselves - of their own accord. What I mean by 'true to themselves' is that, for example, the Empress will not speak as the Hermit, though each may, at different times, say things which seem so alike (same for any other card). But also because of this, to merely have a word, rather than image, would take away from the cards. In my view, Tarot remains Tarot because of not only what it 'incarnates', but the way it represents it. ...so welcome to the Heath :)

Melvis	30 Dec 2003
Aha, I see. You have gone beyond the images, beyond even becoming 'one' with them. You have internalized them to such a degree that the mere suggestion of a tarot archetype allows you to create internal 'illustrations' of patterns and meaning. I have a feeling we all do that to a certain extent once we've studied the tarot for awhile, but no one's really expressed it in such a way before. I guess it would take an Illustrator to 'see' it like that! ;) I like Ros's second idea, too, about having no fear of being wrong. That's always very liberating. Peace, Melvis :TSTRE

allibee	30 Dec 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Melvis having no fear of being wrong. That's always very liberating. LOL, I have a very healthy fear of being wrong, but I never let it interfere with a good story :O) hmmmm ... I think I like the Heath :) allibee

celeste	31 Dec 2003
Wow. More power to you if you can do it that way. I am still dreaming of being at that level. Sometimes in one or two cards in a spread I connect that way but not all the time. Your hard work over the years has certainly paid off for you.I'm in awe.

Umbrae	31 Dec 2003
Pssst...over here...in the dark doorway...act innocent. Don't let anybody see us conversing. I just wanna say, "Ya...that's the ticket". Next thing you know you'll start reading with the cards face down - reading the spaces between the cards...oh I like the pictures too, but they can get in the way don't they... Ooops, here comes somebody...better keep moving. If they ask, just tell them it wasn't a Rolex...

Jewel-ry	31 Dec 2003
I think the pictures were probably important to you at some time, but you've grown, youv'e moved on, you dont need them anymore. Congratulations! J :)

Moonbow*	31 Dec 2003
I don't call you a heathen, I call you extremely in touch with your senses. This is great, what we are all capable of (IMO) but only few are able to atain. Moonbow*

Macavity	31 Dec 2003
I sometimes practice with virtual (computer generated) "flash cards" with just the number and Arcana/Suite. From there, I might derive a mental (Thoth) keyword and then shuffle through a mental (visual?) catalogue of symbolic highlight from decks I like most. A pyramid structure that depends on comparitively few underlying "facts"? MInd you, I sense there's not much room for facts in the old grey matter, these days - And their retention is even more hit 'n' miss. :laugh: I think such ideas are alluded to (and used) on e.g. the "comparitive tarot" list? (qv). Who knows? What I (like to) think I do might differ entirely from what I REALLY do! :D Macavity

allibee	01 Jan 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Umbrae If they ask, just tell them it wasn't a Rolex... What.... Rolex? Nah, weren't me guv'nor lol ;)

Alex	01 Jan 2004
Not that I didn't want to, but that's not the way my mind works. It doesn't matter to me whether the deck has pictures, or not. Or which deck I'm using. I'm not saying that I'm right more often than I'm wrong. Just saying, I couldn't care less for the figures and I can't seem to be able to change that. Alex. Quote: Originally posted by allibee Maybe it's because I learned initially on the Prediction Deck that has very minimal illustrations for the Majors, and non pictorial pips, that maybe in a way I have learned to do without any visual signposts... and sometimes lately I don't even have to lay the cards.... but the question is: Are pictures *that* important to a tarot reading? (allibee waits for the purists to raise up in arms, lol)

Kiama	02 Jan 2004
I've always said that the pictures are important when learning Tarot. Pictures I find, depending on the person, but for alot of people, help them to internalize what each card is saying so that they can identofy that concept/archetype elsewhere... So that they gradually build up learning and information around that card... But for the reading process itself I don't think you necessarily need the images... But learning and reading are two different things I guess. Kiama

WalesWoman	04 Jan 2004
As a person still in Tarot diapers, I have to call up the picture in my mind for most of the minors and then all the key meanings start clicking. Otherwise I sit there with a blank in my brain trying to think of what this or that card even means, so being a visual learner I'd be lost without the pretty pictures. At the moment I'm in a place where I decide on if a deck would work for me by the pictures on the minors, so no Thoth or Marsailles for me yet, but someday... But I think it's really great that you have gotten to a place where all you have to do is know what the number and suit are and come up with what it means for each particular position in relation to the others cards. I also like the fact that you incorportate everything you've gleaned over the years into your meanings, rather than sticking to the meanings that each deck carries with it. I know if I just stuck to what the LWB says I'd never be able to have a decent interpretation. If I stuck by what one author has interpreted the cards to mean, I'd still have a hard time. The more I incorporate, the better my interpretations get, or I hope so anyhow.

Kachua	04 Jan 2004
I can recall the meanings to the cards just thinking of their names in my mind, but it is more the picture that is imprinted in my mind rather than a string of words. I might be able to read without the pictures, but I don't think it would be as accurate and I definitely think it would lose something. I think it's because the pictures on the cards tell me everything about what the card means. Really, I think it all just depends on whether you're right brained/left brained and visual/auditory.

allibee	04 Jan 2004
Do you keep a journal yet Waleswoman? ... or maybe you're on your third, fourth or fifth? Everything that you read or hear or sense or see that strikes a chord with any particular card needs to be written down to help you grow from *tarot diapers* to trainer pants to .... whayhey ...the time you can use the big toilet on your own (lol) I'm probably preaching to the converted already though, but every scrap of info no matter how insignificant at the time, may one day be *just the right one* for that story you are creating with the cards. I think I said in my previous sojourn here a year ago that each card to me is like a multifaceted diamond, and every different facet sparkles with a story of its own. But sometimes "all you have to do is know what the number and suit are and come up with what it means for each particular position in relation to the others cards" doesn't work because the four of pents is crying out to be seen as just a four, or just a pent imho :) allibee

Cerulean	04 Jan 2004
or settle down with cards with different pictures to help my concepts to flow. My days are spent with numbers, so pictures are welcome to me. Poetry is one of my learning centers, but the words evoke pictorial concepts for me. Just my taste and take. Of course since I like different pictures every week, my anime tarot readings usually differ from my Italian deck readings...and if the framework switches Justice and Strength or use interesting titles, that flavors my readings... For fun, I guess I like to lift different takes from different structures. And you're not a heathen in any sense, but I'm a silly in all senses at the moment---I'm recovering from a cold and can actually taste and breathe again! Mari H., the silly

allibee	04 Jan 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Mari_Hoshizaki Mari H., the silly LOL :) Get better soon! A.

Star Spirit	04 Jan 2004
I think it all depends on the person and your personality type. Everyone learns things differently. Personally I love the pictures, they are very helpful to me and something often stands out that I hadn't noticed before, or just seems emphasized and I apply this to the reading specifically. I will often find that in one reading the faces in a certain card look happy, and in another reading, unhappy. And this influences how I read that card. To me, the images have life of their own. Although I think the way you read must be a different kind of gift.

The Call me a heathen ... thread was originally posted on 30 Dec 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.