The Hanged Man's shirt and defying gravity

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 20 Mar 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

ros	20 Mar 2004
Why is the shirt not hanging over the belt? What happened to gravity in the picture? Has he got it pinned to his pants or what? His hair is flowing downward but his shirt is flowing the wrong way. There could at least be a ripple in it.

CreativeFire	20 Mar 2004
Hi Ros I noticed this too when I was doing the Hanged Man in the 78 week study! You would think that his shirt would be affected by gravity and be hanging over his belt. When I looked a bit closer it seemed to me that part of the shirt is tucked in the fold of his leg and maybe that is what is holding it from falling over his belt. The other side of the shirt seems shorter - which goes with the fall of the fabric if the other part is caught by the folded leg. CreativeFire

mysticali	22 Mar 2004
Ros, I got the first laugh out loud i've had for ages at your post - it brings to mind this guy who is about to be hanged tucking his shirt into his knickers first. It does perhaps create a whole new layer to the card perhaps it ought to be explored further. I used to have a boyfriend that did this but that's another story...

Diana	22 Mar 2004
Once again, Arthur Waite received his inspiration and wisdom that he put into this card from the Marseille deck concerning this detail. I make a brief mention of it in this thread (too brief I think, for since then I have thought many times on the why and wherefore and could probably add to it): XII - Le Pendu

baba-prague	22 Mar 2004
I honestly think this may not be so much a matter of symbolic significance as a matter of drawing difficulties. As someone who has just done a "Hanged Man" (should we call it the "Hanged Cat" - I think not!) I've found it is really quite hard to show the clothing in a convincing way. It's much, much easier to simply leave the clothing the right way up and show the hair hanging down. Once you reverse the jacket you can end up with a real mess visually (honestly, we had to do a lot of photos to achieve anything that looked both convincing and NOT like a heap of rags). and I would guess that the artist just decided it was more elegant not to do this. But feel free to disagree please. I would be very interested to hear if anyone really does feel there is some symbolism in this depiction.

Le_Corsair	22 Mar 2004
Well, obviously it's hard to take the Hanged Man seriously if his shirt has slid down to cover his face, exposing his bare midriff. :D You sort of lose that look of serenity, don't you? :laugh: :joke: Bob :THERM

Phoenyx*	22 Mar 2004
The Hanged Man seems to me to be the type of man that would have a nice midriff....of course, that could be my hormones talking too. ;)

jema	22 Mar 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Triquetra The Hanged Man seems to me to be the type of man that would have a nice midriff....of course, that could be my hormones talking too. ;) *LOL* that was the funniest post i read today:) and of course you are right too! I bet he got a neat 6 pack.

closrapexa	22 Mar 2004
I know I'd take him alot more seriously if if he did have a six-pack!!! But seriously, obviously his shirt stays up. His serenity is such that the normal laws of the world don't affect him. He is totally detached

SeaPrism	22 Mar 2004
Hi all... this is my first post here tho I've been lurking for awhile... I too had a good giggle over this :) But apart from the humor here, I believe he's just not meant to suggest a chaotic figure, he's still somewhat under control, just "letting go of outcomes"...?

laura_borealis	22 Mar 2004
In Cynthia Gile's book Tarot: History, Mystery, and Lore, she talks about Antoine Court de Gebelin as the first person to write about Tarot as an esoteric and divinatory tool. This was in 1775, and he would have been looking at a Marseilles type deck. He thought the Hanged Man's position was a printer's error and turned it around so the figure appears to be standing on one foot, and he re-named it Prudence.

OakDragon	22 Mar 2004
Quote: Originally posted by ros Why is the shirt not hanging over the belt? What happened to gravity in the picture? Has he got it pinned to his pants or what? His hair is flowing downward but his shirt is flowing the wrong way. There could at least be a ripple in it. Well, since we know that he will pass this spiritual test (as is required by his progression through the trumps), perhaps he is sufficiently spiritually worthy that his modesty is able to overcome gravity? Not too much to ask for, for a chosen one, is it? :D

OakDragon	22 Mar 2004
I was also just noticing that at least in my Radiant RWS deck, it's not a tunic. It's a loose, bodysuit kind of thing with leg holes, so it can't fall down.

tmgrl2	22 Mar 2004
Wish I had a scanner...next on my list...In the Tarot Moretti deck. the Hanged Man has leaves sprouting from his ankles. His arms are supposedly transformed into the brances of trees. When I look at this HM though, it almost looks like he has a flowery, leafy large collar that looks like a Mandrake plan when he is upside down because it does fall over his head thus. (Back to Mandrakes...it is said that when an unjust man was hanged, the Mandrake grew beneath the gallows.) Also, in this card the tunic very gently falls backward, not completely, but softly...certainly looks more "gravitational" than the cards that have the bottom of the tunic "glued" to his legs even though he is upside down...This deck was created in 1984 by Charles Pasino and Raymonde Moretti...(jmd, I'm getting these from the Encyclopedias you recommended in your bibliography. ty) t2

WalesWoman	25 Mar 2004
Sherlock I am not, once again I had to think long and hard and still don't know, but how about trying to retain some dignity, since it was something he did contrary or wasn't PC that got him into this predicament? Maybe he's got velcro or something, and it allows him not to loose face, even tho he's being humiliated. I think ... :}

Phoenix Rising	31 Mar 2004
You guys have got me cracking up (laughing my snoggin off)over this thread, how very observant of you. The hanged man is more like a fool, who in their right mind would hang themselves upside down by the foot. Unless he was hiding in the tree and peeking at some couple rolling around in the hay, and lost his balance and when he was falling got his foot caught.

WalesWoman	02 Apr 2004
Phoenix Rising, that is a great thought! OR he was ensnared, stepped right into one of those booby traps. BUSTED!

closrapexa	21 Apr 2004
In the Thoth he's naked, so what does that mean?

Phoenix Rising	21 Apr 2004
This thread still makes me laugh, especially with closraprexa quote about him being naked. I guess he wouldn't have the problem with his shirt not falling when it should.

ros	21 Apr 2004
In the Thoth it would mean that he has nothing to hide. (naked truth is what I think the nakedness in the cards mean.)

CreativeFire	21 Apr 2004
I agree with you Ros, in the Thoth his nakedness does allude to having nothing to hide. Also like he has sacrificed "everything" - clothes as well. I couldn't resist though, I had to go and check the Thoth Hanged Man to see if anything "else" was affected by gravity }) Comparing the RWS Hanged Man and the Thoth - I would have to say then that RWS artist was conscious of keeping some of his modesty and dignity in his predicament! CreativeFire

TemperanceAngel	21 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by SeaPrism Hi all... this is my first post here tho I've been lurking for awhile... I too had a good giggle over this :) But apart from the humor here, I believe he's just not meant to suggest a chaotic figure, he's still somewhat under control, just "letting go of outcomes"...? SeaPrism, welcome, I think that's a wonderful interpretation :) XTAX

closrapexa	23 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by CreativeFire I agree with you Ros, in the Thoth his nakedness does allude to having nothing to hide. Also like he has sacrificed "everything" - clothes as well. I couldn't resist though, I had to go and check the Thoth Hanged Man to see if anything "else" was affected by gravity }) CreativeFire Strange, though. Nothing is affected by gravity because there literally is nothing there. maybe Crowley made up for it in the Devil? :eek:

firemaiden	19 May 2004
The hanged man defies gravity, and many other things! moderator note: I've moved this from RWS study group, because it concerns many more decks than RWS.

tmgrl2	19 May 2004
The other day I was scanning through all kinds of decks on a website and I saw the Hanged Man holding a rope in sort of a Rube Goldberg kind of set up where it is clear that if he pulls on the rope he will right himself...hinting that he is there by choice and in control of setting himself upright when he chooses... In the Gilded Tarot the same chain is there just out of reach of his hand, suggesting the same thing to me...looks like he can reach up, grab the chain, pull on it and a set of pullies will turn the wheel and set him down or upright.... fm, as for shirt, gravity works for me, too...not natural for it to hang "up, " unless it refers to "hang-ups?" oh...oh... terri

Black*Cat	24 May 2004
Everyone who's having fun with this thread should have a look at kenji's favourite Hanged Man. It's worth the trip, believe me. You need to go to: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24216 & check out the second link from the top - enjoy!!! Black*Cat (Edited for typos)

purple_scorp	28 May 2004
Dear Black*Cat good thing he wasn't a scotsman....fun link. Cheers purple_scorp

firemaiden	28 May 2004
Hilarious link, Punchinella! Now there is a card which doesn't defy gravity! Speaking of Scottsman, do I correctly remember, that the Hanged man on the Wheel of Change tarot has an exposed member obeying the laws of gravity?

hedgecub	28 May 2004
Perhaps the Hanged Man in the RWS has static cling problems? ;) He should have used Bounce! :D

The The Hanged Man's shirt and defying gravity thread was originally posted on 20 Mar 2004 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.