Did the Death Card EVER mean death to you?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 09 Oct 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Ace	09 Oct 2004
I am of the school that the Death card NEVER means death. Except that once it did, so I can never say NEVER. So, when I read, I must say: it doesn't (right now) mean Death, not it NEVER means death. Because once it did: Once when I was still a fairly new reader, a friend came by at a Ren fair I was working and told me his Dad was recently deceased. I said my sympathies, and he asked me this: he had been to a shaman who told him that his father was walking to Death before he died. Was it true: his father was dead before he hit the truck that killed him (he was on a motorcycle and ran into a truck). I pulled a card for an Answer: the Death card (Robin Wood). I rubbed the card and concentrated. "He veered didn't he? into the truck, not the other way around?" "Yes, he did. the truck was coming in the other lane at a curve (there were witnesses who collaborated the truck drivers story) and he kept going straight instead of turning, and ending up in front of the truck." "Well," I concluded, "you can't tell a stroke when there are massive head injuries." "yes," my friend said, "there were, very massive." So we never know for sure, but I thing what happened was he had a stroke or maybe something else, veered into the truck and was killed. But he may have been dead already. So says my Death card! Has it ever happened to any of you?

tmgrl2	09 Oct 2004
No, not yet, Ace....but I do expect one day that may happen as it did to you. Death is my sun-sign card...I am a Scorpio. I usually like it when it comes up in a reading for me. Then, I am going through some major changes in my life right now, so that is appropriate. I am sweeping that scythe along ...not cutting off any body parts, I hope, but definitely "putting to rest" much in my life. terri

lunakasha	09 Oct 2004
It has never meant an actual "death" in my readings to date, but I always wonder about that....would I recognize it if it DID literally mean a death??? And then....how to explain to the querent without upsetting the person??? I guess I would be more afraid of a "false alarm"--telling them that I see a death in their future and getting them worried unnecessarily. I always go with my intuition, my gut, when I do a reading....so if I had a strong feeling that the card signified an actual death, I would try to give them the news with as much sensitivity and empathy as possible....but probably still wondering whether or not my gut was correct. :) Luna

loveinspirit	09 Oct 2004
i dont see the death card as meaning just that.... i see it as a new beginning, as things to get better.. but even in death its the same for someone to die in say a bad illness, as when they have gone they dont have the illness anymore, so i guess its a new beginning for them to... if you can understand what i mean ...

sprouseart	09 Oct 2004
I was doing a reading a few weeks ago for a friend who had an uncomfortable work situation though he didn’t elaborate. I used the Celtic Cross spread. The card in the position of recent past was the Death card. I , of course, explained to him that it was about a transition that had occurred that had created the new situation that he was dealing with. He agreed, but then told me that the situation was caused because one of his co-workers had died unexpectedly and he was now trying to work his job and hers until they found a replacement. So, in that case, I thought that Death meant “death of the old and birth of the new” AND suggested a physical death. I have heard of cases where, in questions about very old or very ill people, that Death has appeared as a final card and had indeed predicted a physical death. Fortunately, I haven’t had that experience. I would not feel comfortable reading for someone who was very ill or very old due to that reason. Though more than likely I would not turn them down if they insisted, I would do my best to advise against it. As you can imagine, the whole situation would have been awkward. I have always been rather fortunate that for the most part, only certain people seem drawn to having their cards read by me. It seems that if for some reason there is a chance that something may appear that they wouldn’t want to know, they stay clear when the deck comes out. I have often wondered if this is just part of the nature of the Tarot. This was an excellent question and I am curios to learn of other’s experiences with this delicate subject.

lark	09 Oct 2004
I was doing a reading for a man and he asked how a new living arrangement for his father would go. The Death card came up and I asked if his father was ill? He said,"Yes." We both looked down at the card and then looked back at each other. He said,"It's Ok I know he's dying and so does he." Yes, Death is sometimes really Death. The interesting thing about this reading was that I could have seen it as a transformation in his living arrangement, but I didn't I knew instantly that he was dying.... And that the transformation was that of the soul, going to a different home.

Astraea	09 Oct 2004
Quote: Originally posted by lunakasha It has never meant an actual "death" in my readings to date, but I always wonder about that....would I recognize it if it DID literally mean a death??? I think that this is an excellent point, and perhaps even the central issue. And Lark's post (above) emphasizes the dilemma of interpretation relative to this card of irrevocable change. I am reminded of a vivid dream a loved one had two weeks before her unexpected death: in retrospect, the dream was a clear message about her demise, but at the time that she related it to me, we both thought it referred to unconscious processes. Of course, both interpretationss were true. So, in theory and by extension, the Death card might indeed mean a physical passing -- but probably not often, and even so we might not recognize those moments when it does.

Fulgour	10 Oct 2004
Historically, card 13 was left untitled, and later "La Mort" was added (note feminine "La"). Now usually known as "Death" this card is part of the great Triad of elements. I The Magician: Aleph (Spirit/Mind) "Balance" irreducible action. XIII Death: Mem (Body) "Completion" inert reaction. XXI The World: Shin (Soul) "Fulfilment" formative effect. As a future indicator, this might signify passive change, like a natural metamorphosis, as the an initial stage of "Creation" begins to pass through "Resolution" which you will later find developing into "Formation" as the growth cycle toward maturity climaxes. Like a crystalline formation produced by pressure, heat and water, there is betokened a change to something more dramatically tangible than what was, and of an even greater beauty than before.

Emily	10 Oct 2004
I haven't had Death come up in a reading for it to mean an actual Death but I know that one day it will happen and like others on here I hope that I can recognise it when it does appear.

tmgrl2	10 Oct 2004
I remember when Tony was in the hospital and when I was at a bit of a low this summer, the Death card came up several times. It creeped me given the circumstances, but it also gave me much spiritually to think about since that is a reality we all face in our lives if we have loved ones. When we love, we always carry the fear of loss, and sometimes the reality. I think a discussion like this broadens our understanding of this card. Here is the thread from the 78-week study. Think I'll run through reading that again, as well: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22920 terri

Alissa	10 Oct 2004
Just recently, I was entertaining some of the men working on my kitchen who spied my Tarot cards. When they asked about them, I encouraged them both to pull a single card for themselves from the deck. I don't remember which one the first guy pulled. The second one was pulled by the guy who was scoffing at me some, and he said, "I better get a good one," right before he pulled the Death card. He looked at me like it was complete cock-a-mammy b.s. He kinda smirked and handed it back to me, like "So?" I said, "Well, this card can sometimes mean you have literally been touched by a Death recently. It can also signify..." and I went into a one minute, mini-Death card discussion... death of a past, death of an aspect within yourself. When I shut up, he said, "Well, the first thing you said was right." And he told me that he was friends with a man who had been run down and killed over the weekend. I had seen the news report myself earlier in the week. "You knew him?" "Yea, he was my friend." So yes, for me, sometimes it does mean death... literally.

tmgrl2	10 Oct 2004
Alissa...I really like the way you said... It could mean you have "literally been touched by death recently." Then you went on to other interpreations. I want to remember that...since I know the day will come when I pull that card and get that from it. I have drawn it in readings, but so far, didn't get anything re literal death...but it may happen. terri

lionette	10 Oct 2004
Nope, never a physical death in my experiences of the card -- at least not as of yet. Although most often I've found it to indicate a closing of a certain state of mind and/or a psychological or physical transition to a new phase of life or a new focus. It's interesting to read everyone's experiences with this card! New dimensions of the word "death".

Ranger757	10 Oct 2004
Yes, a very kind person read for me and Death came up. My 2 cats died within a 3 month period. (of natural causes) :(

Mesara	10 Oct 2004
Yes, I have had the Death card mean death in one of my readings years ago, but at the time I wasn't sure who it was for. That was the most unsettling part of it all I think. When that death came to pass, it brought many things from that reading into sudden clarity.

MeeWah	10 Oct 2004
Yes, Death has meant Death in the literal, physical sense in some readings. It has struck as such in readings for others & related to someone they know. Usually as news of a death of someone known to them or the passing of a relative or someone close to them. Includes an animal member. Also as the result of illness. Both personally & for others, noted it during a Death Year or just prior.

TemperanceAngel	10 Oct 2004
I remember someone asked this here once before and I said I had never known it to literally mean "death". That week when I was at work reading, the Death card was in a clients' spread and I said something along the lines of it not meaning a literal death, but instead death of something in your life etc. My client told me that there had been a death in the family of recent and it had changed a lot for everyone. Both a symbolic death and a physical death. So like Ace says, I learnt to 'never say never!'

Ace	10 Oct 2004
Quote: Originally posted by tmgrl2 Death is my sun-sign card...I am a Scorpio. I usually like it when it comes up in a reading for me. Then, I am going through some major changes in my life right now, so that is appropriate. I am sweeping that scythe along ...not cutting off any body parts, I hope, but definitely "putting to rest" much in my life. I started reading with the RWS deck. Death mows down a Pope, a King, and a family, while in the background a new dawn is breaking. Death indeed of old ideas, old institutions (it always reminds me of the anarchist of the early 1900's-AE Waite's time). But I finally had to take it out of the pack and replace it with the plain white card, which I called the tabla rasa, or anything can happen card. People were so freaked out by the gruesomeness, they wouldn't listen to me take of new starts and getting rid of old ideas and stuff. I was so glad to get the Robin Wood with it's NICE Death card! Using the WorldTree means I am back to a skeleton again, but somehow it doesn't seem to threaten as much.

Sillanza	11 Oct 2004
Not so far ... but plenty of others have. Like Lark, I knew instantly that the meaning of those particular cards was that the person was moving on to the next plane. One was the 8 of Cups, another time it was the 10 of Pentacles. I like to think I'd know if Death meant literal death, but since it hasn't happened yet ...

Proserpina	11 Oct 2004
Wow. I've never seen Death come up to indicate an actual death, but I'm also open to the possibility that it could happen. Thank you all for sharing your experiences... very powerful. One thing that bugs me sometimes is that some books/readers focus on the "rebirth" aspect of this card so much that it seems as though they are trying to dilute the sadness and finality of this card. The way I see it, Death is Death... it's over. And yes, that can come with a rebirth of sorts too, but sometimes I see the "ending" aspect being glossed over by some readers or books. The Shapeshifter deck actually renamed this card "Rebirth" and it makes me nuts! ~Proserpina

Flavio	11 Oct 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Alissa I said, "Well, this card can sometimes mean you have literally been touched by a Death recently. I found this phrase from Alissa very useful for reading sessions, seems like an ice breaker for such delicate subject and opens the communication channel for an unbiased conversation leading to best interpretation, thank you for sharing it!. The only time I got this card was in a reading for a girl who just finished the College so Death in the recent past was interpreted as the change she was experiencing from the student to employee but later I learn she attempted suicide by pills a few days before the reading, she was literally touched by the Death.

Astraea	11 Oct 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Proserpina One thing that bugs me sometimes is that some books/readers focus on the "rebirth" aspect of this card so much that it seems as though they are trying to dilute the sadness and finality of this card. The way I see it, Death is Death... it's over. And yes, that can come with a rebirth of sorts too, but sometimes I see the "ending" aspect being glossed over by some readers or books. Yes, I know what you mean. In recent times, our sensitivity has expanded to accommodate a broader spectrum of meaning for all kinds of things, but a downside of this development is political correctness for its own sake, which can dull the edges of what are often very sharp messages, indeed. I think that when decks -- and readers, including myself -- refer to rebirth without explicitly mentioning the precondition of death, the assumption is made that some sort of irrevocable endpoint has arrived. But I agree with you -- to make the most of human experience, one must first walk through the valley and lay the groundwork for a rebirth that is as conscious and informed as possible. The importance of that prerequisite is often lost when excessive attempts are made to soften the blow of change. This is why I like the Death card in the Hudes deck so much, because in its symbolism of a skeleton with a butterfly in place of the pelvis (where the organs of generation are found), it embodies both the death and the potential inherent within it.

Astraea	11 Oct 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Sillanza Like Lark, I knew instantly that the meaning of those particular cards was that the person was moving on to the next plane. One was the 8 of Cups, another time it was the 10 of Pentacles. This has happened for me, too. The 6 of Swords has seemed to mean physical passing in a couple of instances, as well as the 8 of Cups. I wonder why, if the Major Arcana represent the archetypal stages of life, something as inevitable and universal as death should be represented in readings by minors (at least, in the RWS decks and variations).

Linelei	12 Oct 2004
I've never had the Death card actually mean death, but I'm sure it will someday. On a freakier note, I had just finished reading this thread when I went to pull my daily card, and what do you think it was? Death. Just because of the timing of that, I think I'll drive extra-carefully today...

Ace	12 Oct 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Linelei Just because of the timing of that, I think I'll drive extra-carefully today... And that WILL be a BIG change, won't it? :rolleyes: Take good care, always.

Alissa	12 Oct 2004
I just wanted to thank everyone for their kind echo of my words, I'm glad I was able to phrase it diplomatically and yet sincerely. :) Sometimes I feel like when I speak impromptu, as I did with him, I can occassionally say things right, get right to the heart of the matter, and that feels like Something Else is communicating even. Through me. It's a learning tool for me too, as I am often shocked by the things that come out of my mouth if I don't plan them. :) Unlike posting, in which I can't seem to say anything terribly succinctly.... :laugh: I'm glad the phrase is useful for others. I like it myself. :) The thing that's nice about it is it "calls a spade, a spade" to use card playing cliches. There's Death. Ain't nothing mysterious about the "meaning" of that to the average Tarot client. If you start in on some "rebirth" etc etc stuff, you can lose credibility in their eyes... especially if it's a case where it *does* mean Death. Obviously the client is breathing. But if you acknowledge the literal meaning of the word on the card that EVERyone is lookin at, it can open a nicer, very honest platform to discuss the more esoteric concepts interrelated to Death, such as rebirth and new incarnations of the self.

noby	12 Oct 2004
I pulled Death as the "present" card in my most recent "past, present, future" three-card reading. I smiled at it in recognition of what it was communicating. I'd pulled The Tower in a ten-card spread some weeks ago, and did not understand how it represents my current situation. There have not recently been any major catastrophes or sudden revelations in my life. But I've recently come to understand how these cards apply to my current situation. The past while has been a period in which a lot of my old perspective and worldview, my old ideas and way of facing the world, have been crumbling. No particular cause, other than growing up a bit, it seems. It's been powerfully positive, but also has left me at a loss, not really knowing what I want or where to go next - all the old frames of reference are gone. I've been thinking a lot about death recently, too. We die every day and in every moment - for many of us, the person we were ten, or even five, years ago is dead and gone. Parts of that person may live on, but as a whole person, he or she no longer exists, physically or psychologically. We fear and hate death so much in our modern times, even though you'd think our lengthened lifespans would make us less resentful of death than our shorter-lived ancestors. Without death, life could not exist. Death is what allows for mutation, adaptation, renewal, diversity. Death is fertile soil, a key part of what makes life such a fascinating, multifaceted jewel. I do not wish to die any time soon, but I would not think it a tragedy were I to die tomorrow. It happens. I respect death and feel friendly toward it. I know I will grieve and mourn the loss of loved ones, but I believe I will also be able to accept their deaths as part of life on this fragile, ever-shifting planet. In some ways, Death is always a literal card. It may be rare that it indicates the immediate death of an entire person, but parts of us are constantly dying. Dead skin cells slough off, aspects of our worldview that we used to hold close to our heart pass away, leaving us cynically or wistfully laughing at our past selves. And full death is coming to all of us, sooner or later. Seeing Death in the cards can act as a reminder, whether the complete death of our body will come a few weeks after seeing it or a few decades after. It doesn't take a psychic to say to someone, "You're going to die." The only mystery is when. And I think tarot cards are only specific about dates in cheesy horror movies or for Miss Cleo...

bublee_tweety	14 Oct 2004
I had experienced the literal meaning of the word death in the DEATH card... my uncle have been detected of having a colon cancer...although it turn out well at first...He didn't survive. I drawn a card to see how things are going for him....I got the Death card...trying to see if it is true..i drawn another one...a Death card appear again and for clarification I got the Tower card....so I really can say that..it gives me a clear vision that death means death

The Did the Death Card EVER mean death to you? thread was originally posted on 09 Oct 2004 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.