having trouble with minors

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 23 Oct 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

wildchilde	23 Oct 2004
I seem to have come up against "tarot block" concerning non-pip minors. The decks I have that are pip (illustrated minors) I have no difficulty reading or understanding...however, the decks I have that are not illustrated minors all I seem to be able to "get" is the elemental meaning and a very basic numerological meaning. After that, I just freeze up and can't seem to go any further! This is very frustrating b/c I am getting much better at more "intuitive" reading and feel like this is a huge set-back in my progress. I have Thirteen's meanings printed off, and of course all my books, but somehow I just don't seem to be able to remember this stuff during a reading. What do I do? I want to be able to look at the non-illustrated minor and have the meaning pop into my mind immediately without having to refer to books or notes like it does with the illustrated decks. Any suggestions? This is driving me crazy! And why is it only the non-illustrated minors that are giving me problems? What am I doing wrong?!

Sulis	23 Oct 2004
Maybe pip type minors (unillustrated) or rather not pictoral aren't for you. Why not just stick to pictoral minors if you can read well and intuitively with them? Love Sulis xx

Diana	23 Oct 2004
Quote: Originally posted by wildchilde I have Thirteen's meanings printed off, and of course all my books, but somehow I just don't seem to be able to remember this stuff during a reading. Maybe that's exactly the problem. You want to remember set meanings and the non-illustrated minors want you to move away from set meanings. Maybe you should practice using them. Take your time. Don't rush. Pull a card each morning, with the question: "What must I know about the day ahead". Don't even ATTEMPT to interpret it. At the end of the day, look at the card and see if you can find meaning in it. A kind of a backwards reading, if you see what I mean. You note down meticulously your readings for let's say three months. If you draw the same card, it would be useful to compare them and see if there is anything similar in the days you had. Move away from what you have learned to your own discoveries.

Little Baron	23 Oct 2004
I think that it is important to not put too much pressure on yourself to be able to read these cards straight away. The more you see it as a problem, the harder it may be. I agree with Diana. Before I read her post, I was thinking the same things. Books and the like can be a crutch to lean on and these days, I don't refer to them so much. I go with what I see - the colours, the arangement of symbols, etc. I often go with the colours as a mood and see how some colours dominate others within a card. Take your own notes, and as Diana says, refer back to days when you ave drawn the same card and make comparisons and contrasts. I look at all decks as different, even though many originate from the same original structure. The definitions given in some of the pictorial minors may not be offering the same messages as those of the non-scenic pips you are working with now. I like that, in the sense that it is a different world to enter with a different set of messages to understand. Maybe it is the overlapping of those other decks images that is the problem. Out of interest, which deck are you using? Yabs

ihcoyc	23 Oct 2004
Quote: Originally posted by wildchilde I seem to have come up against "tarot block" concerning non-pip minors. The decks I have that are pip (illustrated minors) I have no difficulty reading or understanding...however, the decks I have that are not illustrated minors all I seem to be able to "get" is the elemental meaning and a very basic numerological meaning. After that, I just freeze up and can't seem to go any further! Probably, nothing. It will indeed take some time to get the hang of it. If you have an illustrated pip deck you are familiar with, you can always start by bringing to mind the corresponding image and taking your meaning from there. Now build on that meaning with your numerology. Ask yourself: what meanings are suggested by the suit and number that aren't necessarily covered in the image from the pip card? The object being not to tear everything you once knew and rebuild it from scratch, but rather, to move beyond what the illustrated deck has taught you. Another helpful thing to do is to reorganize your mental files. Most books go through all the wands at once, all the cups at once, and so forth. Trying to memorize all of the fourteen cards at a suit in one go may well appear to be daunting. Instead, consider them four at a time: the four aces, the four twos, and so forth. Call to mind your numerology here: how does numerology interact with the four cards in this suit to yield the meanings of the illustrated pips? What do each of them have in common? How does the business of the suit interact with the number? Then move beyond: again ask, what does the numerology suggest in terms of meanings not covered by the illustrations? Again, the object is not to tear down what you already know and start again from the beginning; the object is to enter into a deeper dialogue with the deck, until you would feel comfortable making your own illustrated pips that convey your meanings.

Little Baron	23 Oct 2004
Quote: Originally posted by ihcoyc Instead, consider them four at a time: the four aces, the four twos, and so forth. Call to mind your numerology here: how does numerology interact with the four cards in this suit to yield the meanings of the illustrated pips? What do each of them have in common? How does the business of the suit interact with the number? Then move beyond: again ask, what does the numerology suggest in terms of meanings not covered by the illustrations? Great advice. It is such a good way to see how cards of the same number dither from each other. Which ones seem bright; which ones seem sombre. Best of luck. Yabs

magpie9	23 Oct 2004
well I expect to be ducking eggs and tomatoes in a minute here, but I am going to suggest keywords lighty penciled in on the card itself. Just as a short-term helper while you do the excellent exercises suggested here by other people. I had a hard time leaning to read pips, too, and it took my own keywords, a deck I absolutely loved and fine attention to the tiny details that were a little different on each pip. Also, sometimes I would just blur my sight, and see what I came back into focus seeing, and read off that.

wildchilde	24 Oct 2004
Thanks everyone for your great advice (and for not making me feel like an idiot!) lol Quote: Yaboot sez: I look at all decks as different, even though many originate from the same original structure. The definitions given in some of the pictorial minors may not be offering the same messages as those of the non-scenic pips you are working with now. I like that, in the sense that it is a different world to enter with a different set of messages to understand. Maybe it is the overlapping of those other decks images that is the problem. Here is the situation: I have used 2 decks consistently for over 10 years (Golden Dawn and Sacred Rose)...and also have a few other decks that I really don't use. All of them were the non-illustrated minors until I got my Wheel of Change deck earlier this year. And that deck lives up to its name for sure in the sense that it completely changed my ability to read solely from the spread without looking at book or notes of any kind. I use this deck quite a bit, however, the personality of this deck is best (for me) when doing self readings or spiritual/directional oriented questions. Some times you just need to use a specific deck for a specific situation or person, right...so the problem is now when I switch off to one of my other decks that are not illustrated I just get a complete mental block on the card. These are not decks I am not familiar with...I have used them for years but now all of a sudden it's like I don't know them at all. And I guess I am just disappointed in myself because since I got the wheel deck and my perceptions changed I thought it would make it easier to read the other decks not harder...it has certainly improved my understanding and ability with the Majors, but with the Minors it seem to have had the opposite affect! I agree with Yaboot and Diana, I do want to avoid "assigning" set meaning to the cards, especially when they are different personality decks b/c it does not necissarily translate. I just don't know why I seem to have all of a sudden gone backwards instead of forwards! I'll definitely try out your suggestions and see if I can't turn this around! Thanks for the help and encouragement! :)

wildchilde	24 Oct 2004
Geeeezzzzzzz! I really do feel stooopid now. I posted the above and then shut off my computer and went in another room, there on my card table is a spread I did with the Sacred Rose yesterday and all of a sudden I realize that the SR does have illustrated minors! So, this block isn't just about whether or not the minor is illustrated...the block does seem to be related to what Yaboot suggested about the overlapping messages. But this certainly gives you an indication of how blocked I am as I couldn't even remember that a deck I have used for many years was an illustrated deck! aaack!

Ace	24 Oct 2004
Relax, Wildchilde and take a few days OFF reading. you also may be looking for a special answer and it just isn't going to happen (therefore it just isn't there!) Maybe Ask a friend to read you. or Just relax a few days.

wildchilde	24 Oct 2004
LOL! Thanks Ace :) I did get wound pretty tight last night over this! I don't think I am looking for any "special" answer, but I do think I am pressuring myself way too much to try and understand everything about the card when I am doing readings in order to give the most accurate reading in relation to the question. I was also thinking of having a reading on myself regarding my energy block (which I do think is temporary!--I hope anyways). Meanwhile will take your advice and just stop for a few days until I feel a little more centered and focused.

Ace	24 Oct 2004
I might be interested in giving it a card or two. Good luck. After next Saturday (Halloween) would be best for me too!

Cerulean	13 Nov 2004
I saw the earlier posts but, here's some detail in doing what was suggested above: The Lovers Tarot by Jane Lyle is one of those not-very-interesting-to-others deck, but has some fascination to me. I got the 78 card anniversary set last year at this time. I read some reviews and wanted to write one up, but many beautiful and different decks also came in-between. Last night, I had some time to finally follow up on an a few ideas. I actually carried the deck and book with me for a few days. I started with laying out the majors first, than courts on the living room rug. They have pretty pictures that remind me of Botticelli, Ingres and lovely, airy settings that might be Italianesque. I found yes, I did find the majors and courts very pretty. Now the minors are arranged in the book as groups of numbers, but each write-up has the order of wands, pentacles, swords and cups in that order. So it is all the aces, beginning with ace of wands, then pentacles, swords and then cups. I organized all the minors together the way the book has them and the designs began to make sense. The wands usually have some green coming from their gray staves, the pentacles look like buttons with stars on them (kind of boring), the swords are delicate metal foils, and the cups are gold little emblems (also kind of boring). Because they are arranged from one to ten, there's an order to them when I look at them. I found the more interesting sticklike patterns in the wands or swords look better in between the plainer button-like pentacles and the little cups. I also see that the different colors to the background goes well with the delicate feel of the cards. I looked at the book more carefully and saw there were suggested keywords, but the meaning differed by suit. While I don't like canned readings, I don't mind 'prompts'. So I made up some mental notes with a funny version of 'one-two, buckle my shoe'...and here's some samples: "One-(Begun/Won), Two-(another to dual) Three-(trio),Four (a complete door, store, core chore) Five (strive), Six (a set that clicks) Seven (imagined heaven), Eight-(fast gait, steady weight), Nine (over the incline), Ten-(ready to start again, bend,)" It's just a suggestion and while we cannot always sit on the floor and talk nursery rhymes to ourselves, I found it helpful and fun...perhaps your decks with books might suggest an order or ways that will assist? Or if you do not have books with your decks, does the booklet suggest a way of re-ordering the minor cards when you are putting them together again? Sometimes just putting them together by their suit, as cups starting as one-two-three, etc., might just make them seem overwhelming... Best wishes and hope the ideas help, Cerulean

Cerulean	13 Nov 2004
Maybe a brief read on the new (January 2004) edition on the minors might assist others, as well: http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0312309775/ref=sib_rdr_prev1_148/002-5126181-9738402?%5Fencoding=UTF8&keywords=ace%20of%20cups&p=S047&twc=9&checkSum=6jiKnqSaaE4cgfRHY3nNe8JWO3fPw%2BKueQnpiJ7vu3M%3D#reader-page Some people might not like the 'Rider Waite-style' meanings in these minors, although I found the book helpful to start...for also coming up with my own meanings in context of a reading...I do not know if this helpful to others, it's just another idea. Regards, Cerulean

Phoenix Rising	14 Nov 2004
Quote: This is very frustrating b/c I am getting much better at more "intuitive" reading and feel like this is a huge set-back in my progress. Dude if you can read intuitively, ultimately this is how we would all like to read, then carry on. Don't get caught up in the analogical side of things of trying to have set interpretations for the cards. Then you will stop your progress. If you're not happy with the unillustrated decks, then get a illustrated deck! Simple, but I urge you to carry on trying to read intuitively...that is the goal.

wildchilde	14 Nov 2004
Well, I'm happy and relieved to report that after taking up Ace's suggestion to take a few days off I seem to have managed to break through the block I was having... Cerulean, you have a very intriguing suggestion which I will try to explore further:) Phoenix Rising, I love your statement and really appreciate it! In retrospect I think my block was due to my fear of being wrong (or more specifically, leading a querent astray) by letting my intuition take over. In the past few weeks, I have realized that this is a ridiculous fear...as you say, intuitive reading is our goal as students of the Tarot. Also, part of my blockage healing is due to using the Wild Spirit deck more often which has no "pre-set" meanings attached. By using this deck, I am forced to rely on my own "intuitive" understanding of the cards which has really helped me. Thank you everyone for your great suggestions and comments. You certainly helped me, and hopefully this thread will help others as well. :)

The having trouble with minors thread was originally posted on 23 Oct 2004 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.