Three of Swords - a good card?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 29 Dec 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

firemaiden	29 Dec 2004
Say, why does this have to always be the card of misery and heartbreak and betrayal and stabbing pains in the chest and being skewered through the heart and triple by-pass heart surgery and grief and mourning and cruelty and I'm-frightened-Auntie-Em-I'm-frightened? Why? I mean aren't we being unfair putting all the negativity of the world into this one little card? Okay, I see, the RWS shows a heart, and it's being stabbed and all that, three times. But then again, the Marseille shows a mandorla separated by a single sword. My Camoin has a red sword in the middle, which is split down the center. This image is highly suggestive of something much more positive, namely, a famous and highly appreciated portion of the female anatomy. And is the number three not something to be celebrated? The holy trinity and all that... And does the RWS heart pierced through with its three swords not speak of three-fold penetration: heart, mind and body? Why is this not considered a potentially magnificent thing?

Fulgour	29 Dec 2004
Historically, the earliest work on cartomancy was written by Francesco Marcolini and printed 1540 in Venice Italy, but surely the meanings had been around for awhile: Trey de Spades: "A journey by land. Tears." Do you think the Tarot provided the basis to begin with? http://www.thebookofdays.com/months/feb/21.htm (Meanings for "Playing Cards" from the 1540 book.)

kwaw	29 Dec 2004
Fulgour wrote: Historically, the earliest work on cartomancy was written by Francesco Marcolini and printed 1540 in Venice Italy, but surely the meanings had been around for awhile: Trey de Spades : "A journey by land. Tears." Do you think the Tarot provided the basis to begin with? http://www.thebookofdays.com/months/feb/21.htm (Meanings for "Playing Cards" from the 1540 book.) Not sure those are the Marcolini DMs. The author states they are an English system, different to the continental system, used by a soldier wife he knew. Kwaw

dadsnook2000	29 Dec 2004
If we look at the three of hearts as part of a sequence, it can look a little different. One is unity, focus, self, etc. Two is partnering, confrontation and polarity, perhaps the potential of union. Three, then, is the result of a union or partnership. And ultimately the result of a union means growth, separation and individuality -- often accompanied by heartbreak for the authors of the new entity. So, it can be recognizing the growth that comes from a union and the pain and pride that goes with it. Dave.

Umbrae	29 Dec 2004
firemaiden wrote: ...This image is highly suggestive of something much more positive, namely, a famous and highly appreciated portion of the female anatomy...Why is this not considered a potentially magnificent thing? Cuz it's empty.

Sulis	29 Dec 2004
Firemaiden wrote: And does the RWS heart pierced through with its three swords not speak of three-fold penetration: heart, mind and body? I really love this. Definately one for the journal. I too have a very hard time with all the misery attatched to the RWS and Thoth images - It's not just the Rider-Waite-Smith that makes this such a negative card. 3s to me represent creativity or if not creativity then something created; the product of the 1 and 2. Yes, the swords do represent conflict and difficulties but I think that more often I interpret them as thoughts or words. Thoughts and words, when created can be very positive. Thanks Firemaiden :) 'three-flod penetration: heart, mind and body', I like that. Love Sulis xx

noby	29 Dec 2004
The Three of Swords is one of my favorite cards in the tarot deck, if not my favorite itself. I see its meaning as very positive, but not in a way disassociated from the pain usually associated with the card. Looking at the Waite-Smith cards, I can only see the Three in relationship to the Two of Swords. In the Two, a figure crosses her (I think it maybe is supposed to be a he, but I see it as a she) arms in front of her chest, resisting the pain of the world, not letting it penetrate to her heart. The result is something which has the appearance of peace, but really is tension that blocks the flow of life. If we approach life like the Two of Swords person, we can never be truly happy. We can only be happy when we open to the wisdom of the Three, and stop resisting life's pain, letting it pierce us to our very cores. If we resist pain, we become stiff and lifeless; if we surrender to it, it leaves us tender and raw, but also open to all life has to offer. Pain is one of the strands in the braid of joy. Without a foundation of pain, we are not able to experience those intense moments of joy which also bring tears. Quiet, joyful tears are an adult experience in which the joy penetrates to a very deep place created and touched by pain. Those experiences are founded upon those times when we have been overwhelmed by hurt. Human perception is based upon contrast, and the darker and heavier places we have been make the lightness of life more visible and palpable. I never considered the phallic / vaginal aspect of the card before, which is surprising for me, as my family's humor often centers on unintended sexual references, which has given me a sharp eye for that kind of thing, particularly in as obvious an example as the Three of Swords. To me, the sexuality of the image also speaks to the necessity of pain. Just as new life is dependent upon sexual union, our souls are not fertile unless they are penetrated by life's hurts. The falling rain in the card can be seen as creating an atmosphere of gloom, but it can also be seen as nourishing the land. All of this creates a card which is very fertile - an interesting word, given that the card shares the 3 of the Empress. Letting love in, letting pain in, is what makes our hearts fertile.

WolfSpirit	29 Dec 2004
Interesting, three-fold penetration. I have a lot of notes on the 3 of swords...not all my own. A few interesting different things I borrowed from magician-table.com: "3 of swords can be being torn between following my heart or my mind" "3 of swords teaches us that to end emotional pain, we must first pull the swords out of our hearts. This could mean having to make a painful decision or to accept what we cannot change". Closer to the RWS meaning than some I have read here - but another interesting slant I thought :)

Fulgour	29 Dec 2004
kwaw wrote: Not sure those are the Marcolini DMs. The author states they are an English system, different to the continental system, used by a soldier wife he knew. Kwaw There are other references that trace these same to Marcolini, but not with this articles compactness. Your concern is valid, however, and I'm wondering, do you have another source that shows a differing set of interpreations, attributed to Marcolini? (An edition of his book was up for auction at 35,000 pounds.)

Thirteen	29 Dec 2004
I think we have to remember that swords are sometimes difficult--if interpeted that way--because they're all about thoughts and worries and words, which are complex things. Untangable things. When I look at 3/Swords (traditional RW, that is), I see the rain coming down, which represents tears, yes, but also release. All those bottled up emotions need release, and the release, painful as it may be, is the only way to freedom and moving on. Hey, we all need a good cry now and then. The poison that was in the heart is drained as well--all the worries, fears, all the things you weren't sure about. Now you know. Even if those three swords were evil things said to you, lies and such, well...now you know. You know who your enemies are, you know who you can't listen to, can't trust. And you know your own heart and what will hurt it--and how not to put it in danger again. I guess what I'm saying is that the card's most positive spin is in viewing what that heart might be going through before getting stabbed. It would depend on the spread, of course, but in my experience, this card doesn't often shows up in a vaccum--it's rare that the person is happy and content and then something terrible is said to them. More likely, they're in a state of fretting and aggatation and uncertainty. This is a cruel blow, but it also signals an end to all that. Rain brings growth and a clearing of the air.

Fudugazi	29 Dec 2004
I agree about the three of swords not only being about pain, but also its complement, joy - and the image of the female sex is very pertinent here ;) Joy and pain often succeed each other, or even, come together.

Fulgour	29 Dec 2004
Thirteen wrote: It would depend on the spread, of course, but in my experience, this card doesn't often shows up in a vaccum--it's rare that the person is happy and content and then something terrible is said to them. More likely, they're in a state of fretting and aggatation and uncertainty. This is a cruel blow, but it also signals an end to all that. Rain brings growth and a clearing of the air. This is very true, because howsoever we envision the better qualities of this card (loyalty, allegiance, or "true-blue" love), when it appears in a Reading one must respect the Querant's ingrained perception of it ~ within the context of the spread. 3 d'Épées While the design of the card may be variously interpreted, the Marseille Swords offer an interesting study when lined up Ace through 10: a rolling field of circles, with alternating floral and sword elements in the center of each card. There are 48 half circles (24 full), 6 swords, and 4 florals (6x4=24). But counting the Ace we see 7 Épées: an indivisible number.

Fudugazi	29 Dec 2004
Thirteen wrote: I guess what I'm saying is that the card's most positive spin is in viewing what that heart might be going through before getting stabbed. It would depend on the spread, of course, but in my experience, this card doesn't often shows up in a vaccum--it's rare that the person is happy and content and then something terrible is said to them. More likely, they're in a state of fretting and aggatation and uncertainty. This is a cruel blow, but it also signals an end to all that. Rain brings growth and a clearing of the air. I don't know. Sometimes, watching a copper sunset over the lake, basking in cold snowy air, or just being around those I love, tears spring unbidden: I feel both the pain and the joy of beauty, of love. These things are inexpressible - so the 3 of swords hand me a way of expressing them: the mind that sees the sunset, the words I cannot say, that stay locked in the heart, the heart that is pierced and healed at the same time. When I have a broken heart, I get the 5 cups :( (still lets me see the two standing, waiting for me to be brave enough to pick them up and drink from them). The 3 of swords is a special card for me. It brought me to the Tarot, following its appearance in a reading. I felt them calling, those three swords, that red heart, that unexplained happy-sad image. It opened me up, where I was stuck in a two of swords moment (thanks, Noby, for the reminder).

firemaiden	29 Dec 2004
dadsnook2000 wrote: If we look at the three of hearts as part of a sequence, it can look a little different. One is unity, focus, self, etc. Two is partnering, confrontation and polarity, perhaps the potential of union. Three, then, is the result of a union or partnership. And ultimately the result of a union means growth, separation and individuality -- often accompanied by heartbreak for the authors of the new entity. So, it can be recognizing the growth that comes from a union and the pain and pride that goes with it. Dave. Very interesting. Now, what if we do as Rachel Pollack suggests, and view the sequence as a decending series - moving from the ten toward the ace? --- Now, re: the creative impulse-- we have spoken of threes being related to a creative impulse. Uncle Aleister writes the following in the Book of Thoth for his three of swords -- (I love his sardonic humour) : Quote: This card is dark and heavy; it is, so to speak, the womb of Chaos. There is an intense lurking passion to create, but its children are monsters. This may mean the supreme transcendence of the natural order. Secrecy is here, and Perversion. The symbol represents the great Sword of the Magician, point uppermost; it cuts the junction of two short curved swords. The impact has destroyed the rose. In the background, storm broods under implacable night. The "womb of chaos" - hahah, a "lurking passion to create but its children are monsters". Well he certainly saw the sexual aspect, yet gave it a negative spin. (or at least the appearance of a negative spin, perhaps secrecy and perversion is code for something wonderful).

Moonbow*	29 Dec 2004
There are a few cards which, when changing decks, I have to change my way of thinking, and this is one of them. Reading with Marseilles I give this a completely different meaning, but RWS and clones certainly make the meaning more negative. I have come to realise that even if read as heartbreak and sadness, that this is all part of life's journey and something which, if you haven't tasted, you don't understand fully. To feel heartbreak and deep unhappiness, you first have to feel love and extreme joy, so I think that IS positive.

firemaiden	29 Dec 2004
Moonbow* wrote: Reading with Marseilles I give this a completely different meaning, but RWS and clones certainly make the meaning more negative. I have come to realise that even if read as heartbreak and sadness, that this is all part of life's journey and something which, if you haven't tasted, you don't understand fully. I would like to think that I could use the Marseille view point of this card, even when not using the Marseille -- would you mind speaking more of how you read this when you use the Marseille, Moonbow*?

Moonbow*	29 Dec 2004
I would take into account the suit and number and therefore, to me, it would be more about creative ideas and projects. Formulating plans which then come to fruition. The cards around it can sometimes change the meaning slightly too. Then I bring a bit of imagination and intuition into the reading, and decide what the card looks like in relation to the question. Much like your quote about the 'female body part'. I find that I can be freer with the interpretation with Marseilles decks. I don't see why you cannot use the numerology aspect for all decks, and of course the swords represent the same too, it's the picture that would be a little off-puting perhaps.

tmgrl2	29 Dec 2004
Another of the cards I love... I have posted on the Three of Swords recently in another thread. I don't see it as pain and sorrow....even with that big heart, the piercing swords and dripping blood (sometimes). I agree, fm, TdM is an easier read to get away from pain and sorrow. So.. Swords x 3 (Air) Intellect...trinity....finally piercing through the emotions (the heart) so that an understanding of something becomes complete... I see it as a resurrection card (almost like I see the 10 of Swords...the worse that can happen is over). I feel that with the piercing of the heart by the intellect, there is finally an understanding of something that may have been purely emotional and, possibly, painful and definitely not intellectual....so now, along come not one, but three swords and they are saying to your heart... It's clear...Don't you see? Don't you get it now? So I see it as an understanding coming forward. When we suffer and are in the midst of that dark night of the soul, we DON'T understand what it is all about... So along comes the Trinity of Swords (Air/Intellect) to help us "see" what we have been experiencing. It's actually a release as I see it. Of course, it depends, as well, on the cards around it, the question, the spread .....but I definitely don't see it or any of the cards in the Tarot as "negative." Sometimes, the darker side of something emerges during a reading as it should, but that could happen with ANY card as well, no? I don't read reversals usually for that reason, because I believe that the card image holds both sides of interpretation within and that what comes forward during a reading is what counts. A birth of understanding and clarity that can only come about sometimes by having gone through something emotionally difficult. terri (Didn't you love the Sola Busca Three of Swords? from the other thread??....Made me feel really good about PCS's drawing of the image as she did).

kwaw	30 Dec 2004
firemaiden wrote: Now, re: the creative impulse-- we have spoken of threes being related to a creative impulse. Uncle Aleister writes the following in the Book of Thoth for his three of swords -- (I love his sardonic humour) : The "womb of chaos" - hahah, a "lurking passion to create but its children are monsters". Well he certainly saw the sexual aspect, yet gave it a negative spin. (or at least the appearance of a negative spin, perhaps secrecy and perversion is code for something wonderful). The card can be read cabbalistically as the descent of the holy spirit imprenganted the virgin womb with the seed of the Christ, 'it's children are monsters' therefore should be understood perhaps in light of Crowley's general anti-christian polemics. Kwaw

Pocono Platypus	01 Jan 2005
New at the Tarot -- but I took an immediate liking to the Three of Swords. The redness is beautiful. The receptivity of the heart. The swords are dynamic and strong. Red roses with thorns are an image that comes to mind. Or: just today I planted a Rosemary in the garden. It was terribly root-bound, so I took my trowel and stabbed the root ball over and over again, until the plant was free aand flexible and capable of growth. That felt right.

Nevada	01 Jan 2005
My favorite 3 of Swords is in the Crystal Tarot, where the arrangement of the swords makes me think of a third party attempting (not necessarily succeeding) to drive a wedge between two others. I've also seen the fish in the upright position as dead, floating upside-down on the surface of the water, while in the reversed position the fish is upright and healthy-looking, swimming in the depths. Nevada

Moongold	01 Jan 2005
I think you can use any meaning that fits - that is always your prerogative but you may have to spend some time explaining why because that pierced heart is so evocative of a certain kind of experience. The interpretations given by others here - Helvetica. Thirteen and Noby - certainly have resonance for me. You can go outside RWS and Marseille and get other interpretations other images, other tarot constructs. Here is an image for 3 Swords from the Tarot of the Spirit a truly beautiful and underated deck. The card is actually called Recognition: Three of Wind. It is really about the concept of surrender. Give up to win. Let go, let God. Not keeping things that are no longer of value. It is seeing things as they really are and deciding where you really want to put your energy. It is a very positive card. There are other Tarot decks which throw new images and new light on the meaning of 3 whatever.

Melpomone18	01 Jan 2005
Thirteen wrote: When I look at 3/Swords (traditional RW, that is), I see the rain coming down, which represents tears, yes, but also release. All those bottled up emotions need release, and the release, painful as it may be, is the only way to freedom and moving on. Hey, we all need a good cry now and then. I couldn't agree more. I've pulled this card several times in my life, and most of the time my circumstances were less than happy but I was keeping it all inside in my typical "stiff upper lip" way. But each time it was seeing this card that gave me the courage to cry, that made me realize that part of opening up to the human experience was excepting the fact that love and pain are all a part of the same cycle and everything must be recognized and dealt with before you can begin to heal. I could never say that this is my favorite card (The High Priestess and the Moon are fighting it out for that position) but I have always thought of it as beautiful because of the way that it always seems to be pleading with me to let my emotions out.

L'Etoile	02 Jan 2005
I like the new spins on this old classic. I used to think it was a little strange to be so drawn to the card (as I am) if it has such a negative meaning. I think I'm drawn to its simplicity. It's just a heart pierced with three swords. Get out of it what you will. Now, this is not the funnest thing to experience, we all know. But it's necessary sometimes. I don't see this as a card of sex, even with the whole "three-fold penatration (though I know some people who would)". The way I see it, swords is the suit of intellect and knowledge, but it's also the suit of cruelty. And what's more cruel than heart ache? Even if it's caused by something not intended to hurt, it feels the same. And while this can be good later on in life, at the time it feels like someone's just punched you in the stomach. At the same time, the card is very simple. There's no people, just the heart. So it's not the reaction to pain, it's simply the feeling of pain itself.

jmd	02 Jan 2005
I generally do not see swords connected or related to the element of air - except in a most abstract way that in a similar way can relate air to each of the four suits... and to the swords, least. The way swords are said to be linked to the element of Air is by their fine cutting edge - like the sharpness of either mind or tongue. In a like manner, swords are as effectively correlated to the element of Water in the Spanish 'Esoterico' deck... but again do not see that this works very effectively. Yet, for myself at any rate, it is the wielding of the sword that shows more its possible elemental attribution - if elemental attribution is desired (and there are numerous threads in which a number of us argue our respective points of view). Personally, I generally consider this card to be quite positive. If the number three is considered to be communication in general, and swords as active engagement, then though it may depict communicative engagement, it has both a simplicity and a genuineness that presents itself like naked young lovers meet each other in abandoned purity.

Fudugazi	02 Jan 2005
Pocono Platypus wrote: Or: just today I planted a Rosemary in the garden. It was terribly root-bound, so I took my trowel and stabbed the root ball over and over again, until the plant was free and flexible and capable of growth. That felt right. Moongold wrote: You can go outside RWS and Marseille and get other interpretations other images, other tarot constructs. Here is an image for 3 Swords from the Tarot of the Spirit a truly beautiful and underated deck. The card is actually called Recognition: Three of Wind. It is really about the concept of surrender. Give up to win. Let go, let God. Not keeping things that are no longer of value. Oh what a wonderful and true image, Platypus! I love the idea of an act becoming an idea - so fitting to the Swords. Taking a sword to cut through an intractable situation - it might hurt - yes, even the letting go in the inspiring Three of Winds shown by Moongold might hurt - but it is immensely freeing. jmd wrote: If the number three is considered to be communication in general, and swords as active engagement, then though it may depict communicative engagement, it has both a simplicity and a genuineness that presents itself like naked young lovers meet each other in abandoned purity. I have been rediscovering the poems of the great occitan trobadors of the extraordinary XIIth-XIIIth centuries period, and reading up on them. They had a an emotional concept which they called joi in occitan: it means the a complex mixture of joy and pain that the troubadour's beloved (Dame, or Knight for the female troubadours) inspires in the poet, and which is translated into words. Troubadour love was not generally « from afar » (with the famous exception of Jaufré Rudel’s legendary love for the Queen of Tripoli) - its aim was both spiritual and sexual consummation, and troubadours sang of sexual union with their Dame. As I read I immediately pictured the III of Swords, where strong emotion - joy and pain - and mental or verbal work (as done by the troubadours) all coexist. The troubadours did not invent love to fit their word-inventions: rather they invented their word-play to make sense of the joi d'amor.

tmgrl2	02 Jan 2005
jmd wrote: I generally do not see swords connected or related to the element of air - except in a most abstract way that in a similar way can relate air to each of the four suits... and to the swords, least. The way swords are said to be linked to the element of Air is by their fine cutting edge - like the sharpness of either mind or tongue. In a like manner, swords are as effectively correlated to the element of Water in the Spanish 'Esoterico' deck... but again do not see that this works very effectively. Ah...the card we love to discuss... I know you don't see swords as air (in general), jmd. I do see the sharpness relating to mind and/or tongue certainly. Thus, intellect. I at times see a "military" and/or "combative" element in them. When I first read about swords being connected with element of air...I didn't get that myself (although now I do say Air/Intellect). What I do "hear" is a large blade's sound as it is sliced through the air in battle. I can hear that "swish" as it cuts and slices through the air before it makes contact with its target. So, before the wound, comes the sound. And the sound is made by blade through air. I often picture a battle in which swords are flying and people are a jumble of attacking enemies. I always wonder when I see a movie with battles with swords, if those who go into battle with what is often considered by them to be a "holy" sword, think they are not mortal. So before the sword strikes and the wound, either fatal or not, is struck, must one be filled with hope of winning or at least in denial of death orpain from the slicing or piercing of the body. Also, must the mind remain "sharp" in a real physical battle or does it go on auto-pilot and run at a supernatural pace? So, then, with the images that have the three swords piercing the heart, it's as if the intellect or the sword of battle, perhaps, finally gets to the "heart" of reality and the awareness of death, mortality and pain become real. It is this awareness that I associate with the three of swords no matter which deck I use. It always says to me Intellect X 3....self-inflicted perhaps. Finally, realization is brought to the surface, denial no longer works. With awareness, the healing or resurrection can begin. A fusion of mind/intellect and emotions or body occurs and the spiritual is allowed in to "reveal" that something is over or ended or overcome or finished. An understanding is gained. Again, I love the "pain is optional" phrase, since the only "real" wounds to me are those of the spirit. It follows, then, for me, that healing, too, is of the spirit. So, I, see this as a card of healing and reuniting of our parts into the the whole so that our soul takes another step on its path toward the light. terri

kwaw	02 Jan 2005
jmd wrote: I generally do not see swords connected or related to the element of air - except in a most abstract way that in a similar way can relate air to each of the four suits... and to the swords, least. The way swords are said to be linked to the element of Air is by their fine cutting edge - like the sharpness of either mind or tongue. In a like manner, swords are as effectively correlated to the element of Water in the Spanish 'Esoterico' deck... but again do not see that this works very effectively. Although there is the cutting, the criticism, I have never been able to really consider swords soley as air, or any of the suits to apply to any one element. Like the 'esoterico' I considered swords as water [placing cups, as 'grace', to 'air'], but each only works to a limited extent. Airy intellectualism doesn't seem to match to me the blood and guts, visceral, impulsive, aggressive, emotional and extreme nature of swords. The dramatic quality of swords suggests to me not the element that it may be, but the over-compensation for the element that is lacking, thus must be realized 'externally' through people, circumstance and situation, in this case I think 'fire'. Thus I apply it to the 'direction' west, virgo, libra and scorpio, earth, air and water, overcompensating in the inclination towards the achievement of balance in the external 'realization' or 'manifestation' of 'fire'. Hope that makes sense?? Kwaw

Pocono Platypus	02 Jan 2005
The previous posts are evocative of emotional and intellectual states, but I would like to hear about the Three of Swords as it is embodied in a real scene or action. I offered the example of my piercing the root ball of the Rosemary plant. Please describe the physical action /state as well as the mind/emotion.

tmgrl2	02 Jan 2005
Pocono Platypus wrote: The previous posts are evocative of emotional and intellectual states, but I would like to hear about the Three of Swords as it is embodied in a real scene or action. I offered the example of my piercing the root ball of the Rosemary plant. Please describe the physical action /state as well as the mind/emotion. I think I was writing my post as you added this one Pocono. terri

Fudugazi	02 Jan 2005
tmgrl2 wrote: Again, I love the "pain is optional" phrase, since the only "real" wounds to me are those of the spirit. It follows, then, for me, that healing, too, is of the spirit. I loved all that you wrote, tmgrl, except for this sentence, which struck me (mentally ;)). I've seen too many horrifying life-long physical wounds - some that don't ever heal, or leave the body broken - to see wounds as only wounds of the spirit. But I do agree that sometimes the spirit will heal where the body will not. Maybe that is another message of the III of Swords.

Fudugazi	02 Jan 2005
kwaw wrote: Although there is the cutting, the criticism, I have never been able to really consider swords soley as air, or any of the suits to apply to any one element. Like the 'esoterico' I considered swords as water [placing cups, as 'grace', to 'air'] , but each only works to a limited extent. Airy intellectualism doesn't seem to match to me the blood and guts, visceral, impulsive, aggressive, emotional and extreme nature of swords. The dramatic quality of swords suggests to me not the element that it may be, but the over-compensation for the element that is lacking, thus must be realized 'externally' through people, circumstance and situation, in this case I think 'fire'. Thus I apply it to the 'direction' west, virgo, libra and scorpio, earth, air and water, overcompensating in the inclination towards the achievement of balance in the external 'realization' or 'manifestation' of 'fire'. Why is air seen as "airy fairy" necessarily? Ever been in high wind? Ever seen the results of a typhoon? All the elements have their constructive, and all their destructive sides. All can be dramatic and evoke emotion (an element in and of itself - even fire or water - cannot be "emotional" which is only a human, or at least an animal, reaction). I have no trouble seeing swords as air, because of the cutting and clear quality they carry with them. When I think of swords and battle, as tmgrl described, I think of a typhoon - destructive, but also exhilarating. The three, related to the Empress, can have a dimension of "constructive destructiveness" which has been expressed in many of these posts. The high wind that clears the heavy clouds along with breaking the gate. I don't think it's a typhoon.

tmgrl2	02 Jan 2005
Helvetica wrote: I've seen too many horrifying life-long physical wounds - some that don't ever heal, or leave the body broken - to see wounds as only wounds of the spirit. As have I...both in my work and in my family. I am not saying people don't have or can't have life-long physical wounds that don't ever heal. I don't see wounds either as ONLY of the spirit...sorry it may have sounded as though I was diminishing the physical wounds that some have for short periods, long periods or life-long periods. They exist. I meant to say that "healing" ultimately is of the spirit, ESPECIALLY when one lives with physical "wounds," the kind that can never be cured. terri

Fudugazi	02 Jan 2005
tmgrl2 wrote: I meant to say that "healing" ultimately is of the spirit, ESPECIALLY when one lives with physical "wounds," the kind that can never be cured. Yes, that's true: and something else to see in that pierced heart. Thanks for having put my mind to rest!

kwaw	02 Jan 2005
Helvetica wrote: I have no trouble seeing swords as air, because of the cutting and clear quality they carry with them. I too have no trouble associating swords with air.....or with water.....or fire... ...... Kwaw

Fudugazi	02 Jan 2005
kwaw wrote: I too have no trouble associating swords with air.....or with water.....or fire Water and fire - the elements of alchemy. And the necessary elements to forge a sword - forged in fire, tempered in water, beaten (labour = earth?), then used in air, to draw blood (fire, water, air, earth). You are right, a sword is too rich and potent a symbol to be associated with a single element.

Umbrae	02 Jan 2005
IMO, there are some keys to the card that unlock understanding. Many have been touched upon. Three: The 3 elements that make up man (spirit, soul, body). The perfect number (called perfect harmony amongst the Pythagoreans). Represents growth, creativity, and expansion. Stability, form, focus, structure, an orderly approach – plans. The Triangle is the symbol for the Greek letter delta, which is the mathematical symbol for change, and thus – transition. Three is also the number of Binah – completing the Supernal triangle). The Three of Swords reminds us that often – we are our own worst enemy. We place ourselves in a position where we can, may, and will get hurt. It’s a card warning of Self-Sabotage, miscommunication. It is a card that discusses our Ego and Denial, and our overwhelming need to fix things that are not broken. Just my opinion…

MeeWah	02 Jan 2005
3-Swords can represent enlightenment. After acquiring experience, knowledge ensues from which understanding/insight possible & gained. Such can be painful but also freeing as it pierces the veil of ignorance & renders it asunder. Can be likened to losing one's innocence/virginity--depending on the experience.

Pocono Platypus	02 Jan 2005
In RDW, the three of swords is the only card with rain Cards with clouds, besides the three of swords -- Page of Swords, Five of Swords, King of Swords, The Tower

ros	02 Jan 2005
"...understanding heart, although it may have been gained through suffering. You mature through your experiences." "Three swords pierce a heart. They look like crosses, suggesting that those who bear their crosses bravely become more sympathetic and tolerant of others. The heart is also a symbol of charity. The clouds indicate that the brighter side is hidden and that all your natural attributes are not immediately apparent. There is a need to develop spiritual discernment." "... honest and faithful in your dealings with others and often give them the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes this results in your own heartbreak. You would rather suffer yourself, though, than cause injustice for others." from Numerology and The Divine Triangle by Faith Javane and Dusty Bunker I always related this card with heartache but maybe the crosses and the swords changes that to "understanding of the heart" and that leads to compassion from heartache that has been a lesson in the past.

Dexter	03 Jan 2005
The 3 of swords has always been a difficult card for me to interprete. Swords representing intellect and thoughts, then seen piercing a heart causes me confusion. Anything that deals with the heart cannot be dealt with clearly and logically. Our emotions rule our head, our tongue our actions. I think that for me the three of swords from the Medieval Scapini Tarot best illustrates my feelings on this card. There is a leaving, disappointment, opposition etc all depicted in this card. A child leaving home which should be a celebration as that is what a parent has raised the child to do. To be strong and go out on their own, but with this a feeling of loss of heartbreak and sorrow for the child that has grown to an adult and no longer requires a parent in the same way. But along with this, in this deck is the knowledge that the child is heading in the wrong direction and going out into the world to engage is things that are not in their best interst, sex, money etc. So the disappointment is there that all you have given of your heart and mind has been for not. So to me this card represents disappointmet, absence, opposition, sorrow but also growth and knowledge of our emotions.

Moongold	20 Jan 2005
During a discussion about the Moon I had a thought about the III Swords. It has been suggested here already but from a slightly different direction. Effectively it could mean heart surgery, in a figurative or literal sense. The "III" suggests Divine Wisdom - so maybe it's karma or just a life lesson. I don't see it as self-inflicted pain necessarily.

tmgrl2	20 Jan 2005
Moongold, I never really thought of that before! "heart surgery" and either literally or metaphorically, what a wonderful image for the 3 of Swords! We have talked about so many meanings for this card, many of them simply having to do with the three and with the suit... This idea of "healing" of the "heart" (or emotions) is great. terri

Michelle	20 Jan 2005
I have always viewed this card as 'pain in the heart' - be it physical or emotional. Maybe I'm simplifying things too much :(.

Moongold	20 Jan 2005
Dexter wrote: Anything that deals with the heart cannot be dealt with clearly and logically. Our emotions rule our head, our tongue our actions. ........ So to me this card represents disappointment, absence, opposition, sorrow but also growth and knowledge of our emotions. Interesting comments, Dexter. The swords, with the *III* representing divine wisdom, can mean treating the heart with wisdom - more than logic - which may or may not be a part of wisdom. Mind you, I have not see the card you describe. but am referring to the RWS III Swords.

Fudugazi	20 Jan 2005
Moongold wrote: Interesting comments, Dexter. The swords, with the *III* representing divine wisdom, can mean treating the heart with wisdom - more than logic - which may or may not be a part of wisdom. Mind you, I have not see the card you describe. but am referring to the RWS III Swords. Treating the heart with wisdom - yes, that means something! Not letting fluctuating feelings rule one's life can take many forms - the worst is probably the rigid application of logic (or false-logic, generally) to matters of the heart, or the cold repression of passion and sexuality. The best is - yes, you've said it - wisdom. It integrates intelligence, strength of character, understanding and compassion (for oneself and others) and leadership. With that germinating grain of magic that makes it more than the sum of all its qualities. Ah, but isn't that what the 3 of swords - and the whole Tarot - tries to teach us, if we'd only listen?

Pocono Platypus	21 Jan 2005
Well said, Helvetica

Arnnaria	21 Jan 2005
Another thing to remember is the Three of Swords is related to the Empress, or the mother. Hae you have ever experienced being sad, hurt, or just depressed and tormented and not knowing it? Then your mother (or a grandmother, aunt...or even father, uncle, whatever) says to you: "You look sad" or "you look hurt." And voila. Everything makes sense. That person that stood you up really did hurt you. The comment that coworker made really set you back. The Empress allowed you to realize the stalemate we had been sitting in during the II of Swords.

rainwolf	29 Jan 2005
Maybe it could be something painful that will be beneficial later...like when someone moves away to college, or someone breaks up for disagreements...isnt the heartbreak a precursor to a better outcome? Like the ends (happiness) justify the means (temporary heartbreak)? It IS only a 3 afterall. Also, emotions and rationalization sometimes are polar opposites, arent they?! How often can you make an easy decision that completely contradicts what one wants?

caridwen	30 Jan 2005
I've always read the Three of Swords as a sudden, intense, stabbing pain. Something that came totally out of the blue that hurts terribly. At times like these all you can feel is your breaking heart. It could also represent rape, or yes, as mentioned before heart surgery or heart bypass. I once pulled the card for someone who had just had a heart bypass. I read it according to the surrounding cards but in my spreads it usually means heartache of one form or another: betrayal either physically ie infidelity, hurtful remarks, a painful breakup, getting stabbed in the back, rejection... The clouds, symbolise, for me, tears and the suddeness of the hurt like a sudden rain shower. Also a release, for example, if you have suspected your partner of having an affair for a long time - clouds of anxiety or worry - and you have just discovered you were right then yes, you can make a decision further along the road - now that you know. But for the moment you are heartbroken, all you feel are those stabbing pains in your heart. Physically: a heartattack, heart surgery or even heartburn - which can feel like a heartattack and have a stabbing sensation.

judylea1	30 Jan 2005
Apparently people have a lot to say about this card. One can take that kind of situation as ultimately positive, an experience that will force you to grow emotionally and in other ways. It forces you to be strong. I thought I would mention that in numerology the number 3 can have a dark quality in certain circumstances. There is a mystical power about the number. It reminds me of actress Carole Lombard's death from a plane crash. Her mother was a numerologist and warned her there were "too many 3's" in the number of the flight, time of flight, etc., but Carole didn't listen.

BlueLotus	30 Jan 2005
judylea1 wrote: ....the number 3 can have a dark and destructive (I was searching for the right word there) quality in certain circumstances. There is a mystical power about the number. It reminds me of actress Carole Lombard's death from a plane crash. Her mother was a numerologist and warned her there were "too many 3's" in the number of the flight, time of flight, etc., but Carole didn't listen. That was quite a grim outlook . I have lived in a #3 apartment of a #3 building for the last 9 years; and I can't recall anything drastic that took place during those 9 years, aside from the normal. It's a rather quiet neighbourhood, and most people are friendly. For me this card depicts some sort of pain that is dwindling away ( the only way to go is up ), although it was very real at the time. It thus may very well be a positive card in the sense that the worst is over, although it hits the reader in the face at the time. However, I would'nt rule out an imminent misturst issues that the reader may not be aware of. Thus one should be a bit more careful as to who they trust and whether they should raise their hopes regarding a certain outcome as the prospects may not be as promising. A follow up reading in a few days thereafter will clarify the situation.

judylea1	30 Jan 2005
Just thought I'd mention there were many 3's in the instance of Lombard's death, more than just 2 as in the case of your apartment.

Moongold	30 Jan 2005
judylea1 wrote: Apparently people have a lot to say about this card. One can take that kind of situation as ultimately positive, an experience that will force you to grow emotionally and in other ways. It forces you to be strong. I thought I would mention that in numerology the number 3 can have a dark quality in certain circumstances. There is a mystical power about the number. It reminds me of actress Carole Lombard's death from a plane crash. Her mother was a numerologist and warned her there were "too many 3's" in the number of the flight, time of flight, etc., but Carole didn't listen. One of the problems with numerology is that statements like this are taken as truth (the implication of the three having a dark quality) without any kind of rationale or substantiation. One can see logic in the implications of three as meaning "divine wisdom" (trinity etc) but any number could be "said" to have a dark quality. :). It might be good to have more understanding of the rationale before accepting this. I have been quite disappointed by some books and claims for modern numerology, being one who would, prefer to know there was some basis for various systems.

judylea1	30 Jan 2005
Boy, suggesting that 3 MIGHT not always be a pleasant number seemed to open a can of worms. It was actually only a suggestion with the intention that people could draw their own conclusions from the fact there were a lot of 3's in the circumstances of Lombard's death. I don't claim to be an expert, I can only relate that Lombard's mother who was a professional numerologist felt it was very unwise for her to take the flight. Tarot cards do seem to have more dimension than numerology in interpretation, I do agree there.

Moongold	30 Jan 2005
judylea1 wrote: Boy, suggesting that 3 MIGHT not always be a pleasant number seemed to open a can of worms. Hi Judy ` Nothing personal and definitely no worms. Just wanting a little bit more substantiation. The issue is really to do with modern numerology more than anything else.

caridwen	30 Jan 2005
It's amazing how cultural things such as numerology are - four for example in China is unlucky and means death. The number four is pronounced in exactly the same way as the word for death - si in the fourth tone - therefore the unlucky connotations. (similar maybe to the number 13 for some - but then, 1 + 3 is four...)

Moongold	30 Jan 2005
Just checked the forum to see whether I was going off topic or not :). However, it is Using Tarot Cards . III Swords in the RWS is quite a potent image. My own belief is that it is not always so ultimately painful as taken to be. Of course, a lot depends on the circumstances and the reader's particular interpretation. Does one focus on the pain in itself? If so the image is not the image powerful enough, without a somewhat dubious numerological association? Numerology can be of great value in using Tarot cards but my own experience is that you have to be quite careful with it. There are so many claims which seem to have little basis in reality apart from the fact that they have been repeated from time to time. I've been quite disappointed in some of the contemporary material on numerology and am still searching for a good text :). Perhaps the subject of numerology itself belongs to another thread. so I'll stop now. :)

firemaiden	30 Jan 2005
judylea1 wrote: I thought I would mention that in numerology the number 3 can have a dark quality in certain circumstances. There is a mystical power about the number. It reminds me of actress Carole Lombard's death from a plane crash. Her mother was a numerologist and warned her there were "too many 3's" in the number of the flight, time of flight, etc., but Carole didn't listen. kwaw wrote: The card can be read cabbalistically as the descent of the holy spirit imprenganted the virgin womb with the seed of the Christ [...] Kwaw jmd wrote: If the number three is considered to be communication in general, and swords as active engagement, then though it may depict communicative engagement, it has both a simplicity and a genuineness that presents itself like naked young lovers meet each other in abandoned purity. Apparently the three of swords can be very positive, or very negative depending on the numerological paradigm associated with it. jmd reminds us that the number three has to do with communication. Is that not positive? The kabalastic association with the holy trinity, and the impregnation of the virgin womb, brought up by kwaw, must also be seen as a quite positive interpretation, no? The negative assocations brought up by judylea1 remind me of Bermudas triangle legends. As Judy says, "there is a mystical power about the number" -- (possibly its association with the holy trinity - makes it "mystical" and powerful?) - I suppose that the negativity must arise from a fear of the unknown, a fear of mystery, sort of like a fear of tarot cards...

judylea1	30 Jan 2005
I thought about it and the third house in astrology also relates to communication, as well as short trips. Perhaps somehow for this reason a lot of 3's would be unlucky in connection with a short trip in a plane (Lombard) . . ? Anyway, I won't say any more on this since this site does not relate to numerology or astrology.

Umbrae	30 Jan 2005
Threes are said by some to be about The spirit, the soul. It is sometimes called the perfect number. Three’s signal a time where lucidity and image management are likely and there is a prospect of recognition and appearance through the written or spoken word. Three represents groups and shared interests so it also reflects increased social activity. Perspective and contex. Ever spent any time milking cows? You’d know why a true milking stool has three not four legs… The Triangle is the symbol for the Greek letter delta, which is the mathematical symbol for change, and thus – transition. I think it’s hilarious that folks will discuss (when talking about the numbers) different cultural paradigms, and the need to be cognizant of them. But then they do numerology for someone who happens to be Jewish, and whip out the Gregorian Calendar. They do the same for Chinese and Indian friends…what a load of…. Modern numerology based upon Gregorian Calendars, and a culture diverse from the culture used and practiced…never mind… Three’s are neither good nor bad. The Three of Swords if about Miscommunication, self-sabatage, it’s about us putting ourselves into a position where we can be hurt or betrayed. The Three of Swords is about our ego getting in the way of mind & spirit. The Three of Swords is about issues of our own doing. Folks will do anything except accept fault. That is the key to the Three of Swords (IMO).

Major Tom	31 Jan 2005
Umbrae wrote: Folks will do anything except accept fault. That is the key to the Three of Swords (IMO). Thanks for this Umbrae. I'd rather say Some folks. ;) For me, in many instances, the Three of Swords is about revealing our inmost thoughts and although at times that can be a painful experience, it can also be quite liberating.

TemperanceAngel	31 Jan 2005
In readings I have often seen this card, RWS version, to mean miscarriage.....unfortunately.....I have also seen it as having the ability to understand that one has to accept the 'downs' with life as well as the 'ups'. For if we ignore the downs how will we ever know that we have had otherwise?

Fullmoonsinger	31 Jan 2005
The three of swords can mean compassion--opening your heart. Noby, I REALLY liked you analysis of moving from the two to the three of swords. MoonSinger

firemaiden	31 Jan 2005
Umbrae wrote: Ever spent any time milking cows? You’d know why a true milking stool has three not four legs…. Okay, yes, I've milked cows... (well sort of... what, and you have?) I give up, why does a milking stool only have three legs?

tmgrl2	31 Jan 2005
firemaiden wrote: Okay, yes, I've milked cows... (well sort of... what, and you have?) I give up, why does a milking stool only have three legs? Next he'll tell us it's the Magician's table... I give up, too. Why does it only have three legs?? (Well, I have milked cows...so three on the stool plus my two gives us five legs for support?) terri

contrascarpe	31 Jan 2005
I'm sorry, but I haven't read the entire thread (yet). Just getting back into the "Tarot Swing", I read firemaiden's initial post and it brought back memories of a reading I did at the shop this past Sunday. I was in the midst of a really good and effective reading, beginning as always with the Robin Wood and then segueing (sp?) into the Baroque Bohemian Cats. My seeker asked about her husband at this point and I pulled three cards, one of which was the Three of Swords. For the first time, I saw this card in a different light. I saw the strong confident kitty, holding that heart with the three swords and I didn't see the heartbreak but instead, someone protecting someone from heartbreak. The other cards supported this belief (funny, I can't readily remember the supporting cards right now, so surprised I was at how I saw this one). Dan

tmgrl2	01 Feb 2005
Thank you for sharing that insight, Dan. That's the beauty of reading with the cards in the moment for a client. Something totally different from what has been more "fixed" comes up during the reading. I like the take that our soul is still awakening and that most of our disappointments come from our expectations. terri

RedMaple	01 Feb 2005
Just wanted to say that I really love the 3 of Swords in the Golden. The heart is embroidered, as if it's been patched up from old wounds, and yet the embroidery makes it more beautiful. How we take sorrow into our hearts, and how we heal from that sorrow has the potential of scarring us horribly, or making us more beautiful.

Clau	04 Feb 2005
I wanted to thank you all for this thread, as this card has appeared in all the readings i have done for me in the last two months, and I didn't know what to expect. thanks to all your valuable input, I have more tools to get what this card is triying to tell me. .....I surely hope I won't have a heart attack tho....LOL Blessings, CLau

The Three of Swords - a good card? thread was originally posted on 29 Dec 2004 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.