Page of Cups.....

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 04 Jan 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Pook	04 Jan 2005
I was lying in bed last night after a very long day, tossing and turning, fluffing and re-fluffing my pillow, and just not being able to fall asleep. Sometimes when this happens to me, instead of counting sheep, I count tarot cards. That is, I pick a deck that I dont read with too often, and try to visualize all of the cards. Usually the majors forst, then each set of numbers...1's, 2's, 3's, etc. Most of the time, I fall asleep before I get through the whole deck. But last night, I was wide awake. (I blame it on the liter of Pepsi I drank an hour before I went to bed.) Anyway, I made it through the majors, the minor numbered cards and into the courts, and was thinking on the Page of Cups, and I realized I could not for the life of me think of ANY Page of Cups...not from any deck...not even the RWS!!! I got up out of bed, came into the living room at 3:30 am, and pulled out a couple of decks to have a look. OK....so now I have an image in my head, and I try to get back to sleep..... but I cant stop thinking about the darn Page of Cups!! Eventually I did fall asleep...not realy sure what time, but this morning I logged in here and did a search on him (her if you use a deck with Princesses)....and found no threads that really get into this card....or why he would be harrassing me at 3 in the morning. Any body have anything they would like to sy about the Page of Cups? How do you view his position in a tarot deck? Does he mean anything special to you? C'mon guys......give me your 2 cents worth...... :) O..BTW...I did think of something fantastic that this card now means to me!!... but I will tell you later after I let you guys have a say....

huredriel	04 Jan 2005
Could this have anything to do with a guy who is interested in you or someone you like? I'm still not too good on court cards but in my deck (Tarot of the Old Path) it's a young man offering a cauldron/cup filled with flowers.

Pook	04 Jan 2005
No, it definitely has nothing to do with a possible new romantic interest. I am happily involved now for over 5 years. I even find myself calling him my husband to other people....lol! I'm really not looking for an interpretation of my situation as much as I am looking for insight on this Page in general. Like how does he appear in life, what does he bring, and how does he affect you kinda stuff.... I did read the Page of Cups 78 weeks of study thread, and found it pretty interesting......

jmd	04 Jan 2005
Here are another two threads on the same card: Valet de Coupes - how may it be read? ; & The valet de Coupe's bib

Chubby Mummy	04 Jan 2005
Hiya Pook! I cant remember where I read this, but I think the page of cups appears when you "hear" something about someone. For example, some sort of message about someone you care about... I could be wrong...I dont think thats really worth 2 cents...More like...1 cent. xx cm

Formicida	04 Jan 2005
Hm, this is kind of vague, but the Page/Princess of Cups does mean something special to me. (I prefer Thoth based courts, so I think of her as the Princess most of the time.) The Princess of Cups strikes me as someone who's willing to flow with her emotions, feel them without letting them overcome her. She does what she wants to do without fear of what other people think. I see her as the "better," or at least freer part of my personality. (The other half being the Princess of Swords, who's very self-critical and hyper-aware of other people's opinions of her.) So when the Princess of Cups comes up, I think of being able and willing to be who you are without internal criticism, if that makes sense. It's a very personal meaning, which I have a hard time conveying to other people in the course of a reading. Anyway, good luck getting to sleep, Pook. I like your idea of counting tarot cards instead of sheep, although there's always the possibility of being tormented by one...

Pook	04 Jan 2005
Quote: The Page of Cups indicates the surprising and unexpected nature of inspiration that comes to us from the realm of the unconscious and the spirit. Inspiration is seen to be something which comes upon us most unexpectedly and often in a manner which we do not understand. I found this quote out there on the www, and I think it is a good way to sum up what happened to me in he middle of the night. Yesterday was such a wonderful eventful day for me,....it was my daughter's first birthday, and I found out that I was accepted into the college that I really want to attend..... I was exhausted from all of the excitement. And ever since I applied to go back to school, I have been buzzing with ideas. It took me a long time to decide to just do it, and a long time after that to decide to go for the reason that I am....(I'm going for my business management in entrapaneurship degree so I can open my own business) and I am just ecstatic. I have all these plans for my business - a bookstore/coffeeshop - and I want to just dive right in. And as for the Page of Cups, well....he really was some unexpected inspiration....that's what I'm going to name my store....'The Page of Cups' :D (get it?) ~~~~~~~ Thank You for the links, jmd. I did find them very informative. The first one more so than the second as I'm not currently studying the Marseilles tradition, but nonetheless an interesting discussion. And also thanks Chubby Mummy for your 1 cent...lol....it was actually pretty accurate.....I was waiting to hear back about my admission application, which I did care about an awful lot.... and..... Formicida..... Quote: She does what she wants to do without fear of what other people think. I especially think that this applies to me. Part of my hesitancy about opening my own business is because of the nature of it. You se, it's to be a metaphysical bookstore/coffeeshop and , boy am I going to hear it from certain people in my family and my fiance's family when thay hear that.....*Sigh*....O well, it's my store, my dream.

Fudugazi	05 Jan 2005
Pook wrote: No, it definitely has nothing to do with a possible new romantic interest. I am happily involved now for over 5 years. I even find myself calling him my husband to other people....lol! I'm really not looking for an interpretation of my situation as much as I am looking for insight on this Page in general. Like how does he appear in life, what does he bring, and how does he affect you kinda stuff.... Well, he could be a new baby. In two cases I can think of I read (rightly) the page of cups as a baby that would be coming soon. Or he can be a creative baby - I have very often seen it appear as that. You might be gestating a new project that's not risen to the surface yet. Why don't you have a look at an interesting reading (a reading/thrashing thread for Eco74) in the Let's Marseille section, where Diana read that card (the Valet de Coupe) as a baby, while I suggested the idea of the creative baby, and there were other interesting comments. It's a good thread. http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=35160 I love the page of cups. In the the Mythic deck he is Narcissus, and symbolising self-love, taking care of your inner child. But I also see him, as I said above, as a creative idea that needs nurturing and slowly brought to maturity. In the Tarot of Prague he looks like a young river god rising out of the water before the town of Prague - he looks both romantic and powerful -to me he signifies the strength of the creative spirit. There is also something light-hearted yet curiously formal about this young man, as though he were dressed up to take a girl out to a ball. There's a faraway look in his eyes - the wind from the sea is calling perhaps (that's where you understand that cups can be air in some decks, though they are water in this one)...and a mermaid just below him (lots of mermaids in the Tarot of Prague). I think it one of the most beautiful cards in that beautiful deck. Have you tried drawing a page of cups yourself? You might find out more what he means to you then (unless, like me, you can't draw very well - in which case- stick-figure tarot, or verbal description will have to do!)

eastarot	05 Jan 2005
The Page of Cups holds a lot of significance for me ever since I found out I was pregnant Due on 2 March, which will make it a Piscean baby (still not sure if its a boy/girl) Everytime I do a reading on my pregnancy, I get the Page of Cups. So I've begun to associate my unborn child with the qualities of the Page. Let's see:) good luck on your quest for additional information on this fascinating card eastarot

Queen of Swords	05 Jan 2005
The Page of Cups to me has always been a card that brings in something new- it's almost like the Ace for me, except it doesn't necessarily have to symbolize a beginning. It could be an oncoming of ideas, inspiration, motivation, or an actual message from someone that brings in a positive meaning of some sort. I've always been partial to the Page of Cups, because it tends to bring about a good feeling- something refreshing or a potential. This card has also popped up for me in readings I've given that dealt with a new love interest...like a budding crush- those giddy feelings people have during the initial seed of a love interest. Not the bonding of 2 of Cups and less substantial than the Knight of Cups. The Page of Cups is always a bud of something that brings a smile to someone's life. :)

Pocono Platypus	05 Jan 2005
The image of the page of cups evokes many emotions, as the previous posts have nicely described. But for me, I'm looking at the fish, not as a symbol, but as a fish. It reminds me of the time I had my cards read at a nice coffee shop in Salem, Massachusetts. I asked the reader, "Am I going to catch the big fish?" Well, he spread out the cards and gave me a wonderful description of my emotional/metaphysical state. But he was unwilling to address the very concrete situation that I presented to him. To wit -- I had brought my fishing pole and tackle box into the cafe, set it next to me, announced that I was going out in a boat the next day and asked, "Am I going to catch the big fish?" Now, all fish and all fishing expeditions are highly symbolic -- read Moby Dick, or Jonah and the Whale in the Bible, etc. -- but sometimes (also) a fish is a fish. And so I ask the question, which is a way of asking permission, in other words, "May I catch the fish? (and eat it)"

Fudugazi	05 Jan 2005
eastarot wrote: The Page of Cups holds a lot of significance for me ever since I found out I was pregnant Due on 2 March, which will make it a Piscean baby (still not sure if its a boy/girl) Everytime I do a reading on my pregnancy, I get the Page of Cups. So I've begun to associate my unborn child with the qualities of the Page. I was a Pisces baby - and the page of cups means a lot to me still, maybe because of that. Partly he reminds me of what I was when I was a little girl- and what the core of me has remained. Happy pregnancy, eastarot. Pisces babies are happy dreamers - emotional and somewhat psychic. ;)

Pook	05 Jan 2005
Congratulation eastarot!!! What a joy for you! Were it not for the fact that I have been very careful in my ...err...sexual relations... I might run out and buy a pregnancy test for myself with all this talk of babies and pregnancy determined by the page of cups here. And, not to change the subject, but I had a thought while I was reading Thirteen's "definitions" in the learning tarot section here at AT. Here, let me quote the part I'm talking about.... Quote: When sad, they're the saddest kid you ever saw. When happy, they're positively blissful. This makes me think of my someday-gonna-be sister-in-law. She has Bipolar Disorder, which, as I understand it, is a very serious type of depression. And it accurately describes her and the way her disorder was described to me. The disorder controlls her moods and how rapidly they fluccuate. And to the extremes that her moods can go to. When she is down, she talks of dark, drab and upsetting things, and when she is happy, she skips around, singing, talking a mile a minute and would do anything in the world to help you or make you happy. I was just wondering if anyone has ever had this page represent Bipolar Disorder or anything like it?

Milamber	05 Jan 2005
Having drawn the Page of Cups twice in the last week as my daily card, including today, I thought I might as well add what I've thought about it so far. The Page of Cups, to me, has seemed to be a very deep, thoughtful person. Whenever I draw the card (RWS), it's the look on his face that gets my attention most of the time. For me, in the short time I've studied the cards, he's been a sign of introspection or deep thought.

Fudugazi	05 Jan 2005
Pook wrote: This makes me think of my someday-gonna-be sister-in-law. She has Bipolar Disorder, which, as I understand it, is a very serious type of depression. And it accurately describes her and the way her disorder was described to me. The disorder controlls her moods and how rapidly they fluccuate. And to the extremes that her moods can go to. When she is down, she talks of dark, drab and upsetting things, and when she is happy, she skips around, singing, talking a mile a minute and would do anything in the world to help you or make you happy. I was just wondering if anyone has ever had this page represent Bipolar Disorder or anything like it? My elder sister is bipolar. It came out once as Queen of clubs associated with XVIII-the Moon, and once as VII- the Chariot (the 2 horses going in different directions, with a look of lots of movement but actually standing still, like someone fighting windmills) associated with the II of coins (the 2 coins never quite joining each other, a disconnection with the earth). But I did have the page of cups come up once for someone very immature.

eastarot	05 Jan 2005
Thanks for your wishes about my pregnancy:) Yes I've heard Piscean babies sleep very well through the night and are easy babies to bring up....unlike babies of fire signs. The Page of Cups has also come up as a youthful admirer of an older woman, someone who fantasizes about her and yearns to share a deeper relationship.

Pocono Platypus	05 Jan 2005
My son, the Ares, slept through the night after he was a month old. My daughter, the Pisces, was healthy and happy, but she never needed a lot of sleep. She used to wake up in the middle of the night, not because she was cranky, but because she wanted to party. However the pattern you describe is still worthwhile.

Kath	06 Jan 2005
I’ve had the Page of Cups come up for budding romances... and sex })

Pocono Platypus	06 Jan 2005
The Page of Cups is pregnancy, romance, water -- and don't forget the fish. I am writing this in the morning, after contemplating the Page of Cups with you forum-folk last night... In my dream I was in a castle by the sea talkng with Brian Wilson (lead singer of the Beach Boys)...it as very pleasant

noby	06 Jan 2005
I tend to think of the Page of Cups, particularly the RWS Page of Cups, as an artist. In general, I see the Pages as students, those enamored of the world, particularly of the world as seen through the tendencies of their respective elements. I see them as people who study intensely and then use that knowledge to create their worlds and their representations of their worlds. The RWS Page of Cups looks into the cup and sees a fish. That, to me, is a reflection of an artist: someone who uses imaginative images or other creative forms to explore and express their emotions. When I look at this Page, I see a painter or a musical composer. My mind jumps straight to Mozart when I see the RWS Page of Cups: creatively gifted, emotionally expressive, youthful and playful and a bit naughty. I also remember my first lover when I see this card. Though he was an older man, and a bit cantankerous, he also had a playful sensibility to him. He was very emotional, a gifted artist and a Pisces, but he wasn't what I would describe as "sensitive" or "gentle." Rather, he was gruff and blunt. So when I look at this card, I think of a playful, emotional, artistic spirit, but not someone as sensitive and easily wounded as the Queen of Cups - or at least not so outwardly sensitive. Someone who can roll with it and just enjoy the hell out of life and enjoy being an emotional being. A bit of a rogue and a fool, but a clever fool... I also think of the fools and jesters in Shakespeare when I see this card. But always someone with a sense of play. And definitely an artist, or at least with artistic qualities.

other	06 Jan 2005
I, too, immediately thought of a possible pregnancy -- yours or maybe someone you know? Think of your young neighbors, relatives, and friends' kids. One of them might be calling out to you for help or guidance...

Pocono Platypus	07 Jan 2005
I don't want to be a nag, but does anybody see that the fish is a fish, besides me? I am a serious fisherman. I have made a living doing that for the first forty years of my life. So when I see a fish -- yes, I can see all the rich, symbolic meanings, but I also see a fish...... This maybe true of many images in the Tarot. Like the horses that the Knights are riding. To me, the horses are symbolic. To someone who works on a ranch -- they might appear very different

Fudugazi	07 Jan 2005
Platypus - there is only a fish in the RW and some of the clone decks. In the Tarot of Prague there is a mermaid. Not quite a fish (or have you ever caught one;)) In the Tarot de Marseille, not a fish in view, but a large Cup. But if you want to talk fish (and I love fish, being one) - then it was the symbol for Christ in the early Church, before the cross. The symbol of redemption and spiritual awakening. It was also a symbol of the Eucharist. However, early Tarot didn't use it. The symbol of water, the element in which it lives - that was the link I think Waite wanted to make: to "fix" the cups in water (while some systems see the cups associated to Air). Fish is also a symbol of life and fertility in the Indo-European world, in China, where it is always served as a wedding dish, and in the Islamic world: and remember that the suit of cups (like all suits actually) came to Europe from the Arab world (the naïbis) who got them some centuries before from the Chinese in the form of domino cards. But no fish in those cups either. I really thnk this was an invention (a charming one) of Arthur Waite's (or Patricia Colman!) So the fish made a late appearance in Tarot and is still not in all page of cups cards, apart from RWS and some of the decks inspired by RWS. On the other hand, the figure of the young man holding the cup is universal.

Pocono Platypus	07 Jan 2005
Thank you. I will mull this over. It is good to contemplate the water and what lives in it. Cups are for water, I don't see how they could be for air, but that's just me....And, oh yes, when you look at the fish, the fish is looking back at you

Fudugazi	07 Jan 2005
yes, I like the fish too. He does look at you! I have trouble seeing cups as Air, but some apparently do not...perhaps because you can have air inside a cup? But I don't know. I have a feeling it is more sophisticated than that. I always saw that little fish popping his head out of the cup as that little creative idea or emotion or relationship that needs nurturing to bring to maturity, a mirror of the young man holding the cup, and a promise of fertility (in the metaphorical or the real sense)

Pook	07 Jan 2005
Pocono Platypus wrote: The image of the page of cups evokes many emotions, as the previous posts have nicely described. But for me, I'm looking at the fish, not as a symbol, but as a fish. It reminds me of the time I had my cards read at a nice coffee shop in Salem, Massachusetts. I asked the reader, "Am I going to catch the big fish?" Well, he spread out the cards and gave me a wonderful description of my emotional/metaphysical state. But he was unwilling to address the very concrete situation that I presented to him. To wit -- I had brought my fishing pole and tackle box into the cafe, set it next to me, announced that I was going out in a boat the next day and asked, "Am I going to catch the big fish?" Now, all fish and all fishing expeditions are highly symbolic -- read Moby Dick, or Jonah and the Whale in the Bible, etc. -- but sometimes (also) a fish is a fish. And so I ask the question, which is a way of asking permission, in other words, "May I catch the fish? (and eat it)" You are definitely right about that Pocona Platypus....sometimes a fish is just a fish. But I, for one, also think that, if you are asking the question "Am I going to catch the big fish?", in order to get a positive response, there should be a pentacle card in there somewhere....maybe the 7 or even 9. The page of cups showing up alone, even if there is a fish in the picture, doesnt necessarily mean you will catch a fish. Cups are, after all, cards of emotions...not physical attainment. Now, if we are talking symbols, on the other hand, I have written in my journal under the Page of Cups, a passage that I read in a book....(maybe the guidebook for the Fey Tarot...not really sure....) "The fish that emerges from a chalice is an ancient symbol that represents the materialization of the minds imaginings." So if the fish represents what you imagine, and what you imagine is, in fact, a fish...well then, I suppose the fish is a fish.

Pocono Platypus	08 Jan 2005
Well, that time I got the reading, I went out on the boat and didn't catch anything, so that's how it ended. Now I spend most of my time in the garden, but I still think maybe someday I will cach that big one, and I still don't know if it's a real fish, or one of those other kinds.

Little Baron	05 Feb 2005
This card has always been the most special for me from the Rider Waite. I was also a Pisces baby and I feel a connection to his dreamy, warm and nurturing side. He is like a big brother. In visualisations, he is like a guide to the deck. Someone to look after me on the journey. LB

The Page of Cups..... thread was originally posted on 04 Jan 2005 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.