Temperance: an angel, a man or a woman?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 11 Feb 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Clau	11 Feb 2005
I always thought of Temperance of being an angel, therefore unsexed (does this word REALLY exist?? lol), sometimes a woman, but then I saw this card on the Robin Wood deck and it is clearly depicted as a man. So, I went to look for it in the decks I own (not many really) and this is what I found: Art nouveau (Myers) a woman, Marseilles a woman, Tarot of Prague clearly a woman, Sacred rose tarot an angel and Rider White an angel but more maculine one. So, Why do you think there is a difference? Why can it be depicted as a woman, angel o man? Does this make any difference? Do you have any idea of what does it mean in each case? Blessings, Clau

caridwen	11 Feb 2005
This came up in the RWS Study group. I think when angels appeared in the bible they took the form of men. Angels are referred to in the Hebrew language as bene elohim, or "sons of God." And in English as the pronoun 'he'. But it was said that they couldn't marry or reproduce. So god must have endowed them with the capacity to materialise in male human form. But since they're not human I don't think they are male or female, I think they just are.:)

tarotbear	11 Feb 2005
I agree with your idea that the angels should be thought of as androgenous, but I think it is a decision of the artist, and may not necessarily have a bearing on the interpretaion of the card. What sexes are the Pages? Does it matter?

Clau	11 Feb 2005
tarotbear wrote: but I think it is a decision of the artist, and may not necessarily have a bearing on the interpretaion of the card. What sexes are the Pages? Does it matter? I don't know, I'm not sure if it matters or not, I just wonder why is it there is a difference. If I think of the meaning of the card, I'd say it relates much more to a woman than to a man. (I won't say anything about angels as I don't know much about them, except they are with us). Women seem to be more able to unite opposites, (think of a big family reunited for luch at grandma's house) to make things come together, etc. I'm not making any feminist declaration here, just trying to get why temperance is depicted as a woman as well as a man. Any ideas? Blessings, Clau

tarotbear	11 Feb 2005
Aren't the four Archangels Men? the angel on the Temperance card is supposed to be Micheal - angel of fire and sun.

Thirteen	11 Feb 2005
It's completely up to the deck creator which way they want to go, and it probably depends a lot on both their esoteric beliefs and the era in which they drew the cards. In earlier times, as mentioned, Angels were seen as very male--certain ones are always Male (the four majors, Michael, Raphael, Uriel, Gabriel). But in later times when art was influenced by the idea of Muses (inspirational women), Angels were sometimes depicted as female. And often you'll see this dicotomy of Old Testament, er, manly angels as male, while New Testament angels are feminine and gentle--as those often seen adoring the baby Jesus. All and all, I agree with what's already been said: Angels are androgenous; asexual, neither male nor female. This is different from hermaphodites who are both sexes. The dancer in the World card is sometime depicted as a hermaphodite. This distinction is, I think, more important than whether the creature is male or female. The androgenous angel is celestial; a messanger of otherworldly ideas and energies. The Hermaphodite is earthly; a sage or oracle who understand and contains all worldly wisdom.

shaveling	11 Feb 2005
In my opinion this figure is primarily an allegorical representation of one of the Cardinal Virtues. So are Justice and Strength. The usual custom in Western art has been to make allegorical figures of the Virtues female. It's also common to see women as allegories of the seasons, the continents, and all sorts of things. Here in America, the great example would be The Statue of Liberty in New York. This tradition of woman as allegory is continued in my favorite allegorical representation of the 20th century, Edward Gorey's "Innocence, on the Bicycle of Propriety, carrying the Urn of Reputation safely over the Abyss of Indiscretion." Innocence is depicted as a most proper lady. When a convention is this well established, it's going to have a momentum of its own, and will probably be something lots of people find satisfying on more that one level. But the creators of various decks may feel that some other figure better communicates the messages of "Justice" or of the other virtue cards, and they use those other representations. This happens even in the older decks I favor. Temperance is generally winged and female. But Strength may be male or female, and wings come and go on the (consistently female) figure of Justice. Maybe the wings don't always indicate an angel. The RWS figure is an angel, sure enough. But the wings on your Marseille card may just be saying (originally, at least), "This isn't a real woman. This is a sacred allegory." When it comes to meanings: If the card's designer wrote a book, I'd expect some illumination from that. Otherwise, I'd see the variations as the designer's best way of saying whatever "Justice" says to me within the constraints of a given deck.

Vincent	11 Feb 2005
caridwen wrote: This came up in the RWS Study group. I think when angels appeared in the bible they took the form of men. Angels are referred to in the Hebrew language as bene elohim, or "sons of God." And in English as the pronoun 'he'. But it was said that they couldn't marry or reproduce. So god must have endowed them with the capacity to materialise in male human form. But since they're not human I don't think they are male or female, I think they just are.:) Some "Sons of God" did reproduce; Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose... Gen 6:4 ...There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown. Waite makes it quite clear that the "Angel" in Temperance is neither male nor female. He also gives a strong hint that it is not angel at all, but a Cardinal Virtue, typically depicted with wings. Vincent

Moongold	11 Feb 2005
It's an interesting question, Clau. Growing up Catholic I always saw them as genderless .... just spiritual beings who could take any form required. And in literature they certainly have. Possibly in Tarot too. :)

caridwen	12 Feb 2005
Vincent wrote: Some "Sons of God" did reproduce; Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose... Gen 6:4 ...There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. Mat. 22:30 "Genesis 6:1-4 tells us, "When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal; his days will be a hundred and twenty years." The Nephilim were on the earth in those days -- and also afterward -- when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown." There have been several suggestions as to who the sons of God were, and why the children they had with daughters of men grew into a race of giants (that is what the word Nephilim seems to indicate). The three primary views on the identity of the "sons of God" are that (1) they were fallen angels, or (2) they were powerful human rulers, or (3) they were godly descendants of Seth intermarrying with wicked descendants of Cain. Giving weight to (1) is the fact that in the Old Testament the phrase "sons of God" always refers to angels (Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7). A potential problem with (1) is the fact that Matthew 22:30 indicates that angels do not marry. The Bible gives us no reason to believe that angels have a gender, or are able to reproduce. Views (2) and (3) do not have this problem. The weakness of views (2) and (3) is that ordinary human males marrying ordinary human females does not account for why the offspring were "giants" or "heroes of old, men of renown". Further, why would God decide to bring the Flood on the earth (Gen 6:5-7) when God had never forbidden powerful human males or descendants of Seth to marry ordinary human females or descendants of Cain. The oncoming judgment of Genesis 6:5-7 is linked to what took place in Genesis 6:1-4. Only the obscene, perverse marriage of fallen angels with human females would seem to justify such a harsh judgment. I believe view (1) to be the most likely position. Yes, it is an interesting “contradiction” to say that angels are sexless and then to say that the “sons of God” were fallen angels who procreated with human females. However, angels are spiritual beings (Heb 1:14), and yet can appear in human, physical form (Mark 16:5). The men of Sodom and Gomorrah wanted to have sex with the two angels who were with Lot (Gen 19:1-5). I would suppose that angels are capable of taking on human form, even to the point of replicating human sexuality – and possibly even reproduction. Why do the fallen angels not do this more often? It seems that God imprisoned the fallen angels who committed this evil sin, so that the other fallen angels would not do the same (as described in Jude 6). Earlier Hebrew interpreters, apocryphal, and pseudopigriphal writings are unanimous in holding to the view that fallen angels are the "sons of God" mentioned in Genesis 6:1-4. This by no means closes the debate. In my opinion, though, the view that Genesis 6:1-4 involves fallen angels mating with human females has a strong contextual, grammatical, and historical basis." http://www.gotquestions.org/sons-of-God.html

Fudugazi	12 Feb 2005
To me, since Temperance is the card of integration, the figure is genderless - or rather, has integrated both genders - has reached the perfect wedding of sun and moon or mercury and sulfur in alchemy (and this card at the very least suggests alchemy; with its pouring back and forth of liquids; fro, one vase to another). It is an ideal for us humans, to be able to live in harmony with our own sex, but genderless.

ros	12 Feb 2005
I never thought of an angel as a man or a woman just as comfort or peacefulness. We are surrounded by love or white light with our issues we are dealing with in our lives. This is interesting to think about. Thanks for the thread!

The Temperance: an angel, a man or a woman? thread was originally posted on 11 Feb 2005 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.