secret tarot knights and 10w

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 06 Mar 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Cagedflame	06 Mar 2005
i sort of have trouble getting a read on the court cards intuitively in the secret tarot... the knights most of all, the others only a little. the knights all feel much the same to me : armored dudes on horses carrying the suit object seemingly alone in a watery-painted landscape. do other people feel sort of like this, or am i just missing stuff in them? and i'm really not sure what to make of the 10 of wands, especially since it's not at all standard rws so i can't fall back on tarot books. for some reason i almost feel like she's in an old disused temple or at least some place with a lot of history in it, something religious about it all, and a feeling of a time warp with the way somethings just feel old but how some things seem definitely modern, like her long fancy cigarette.

Myrrha	06 Mar 2005
Cagedflame, I also seem to find the courts difficult. The Knights in this deck all seem to be drawn from a perspective that makes them very large and up-close. The Knights of Cups and Pentacles feel like they are going to ride right over you. To me this suggests aggressive involvement with the matter of the suit. I fear all is not well with the Knight of Cups. I worry about people when this card comes up. Look at his helmet and those dark bruise-colored stormclouds and the horse's mad eyes.... The Knight of Pentacles, if you imagine you are him for a minute and feel your body making the gesture he is making, it is as if he is jutting his elbow out to fend someone off while holding back the pentacle with the other hand. His face looks very angry. He is baring his teeth like animals do when they are angry. What do you make of that medallion with the not-smiling not-frowning face on it? It is right over his heart. --Myrrha

Thirteen	07 Mar 2005
Cagedflame wrote: i sort of have trouble getting a read on the court cards... the knights all feel much the same to me : armored dudes on horses carrying the suit object seemingly alone in a watery-painted landscape. It's not uncommon to have trouble with the courts. Even the experts have trouble with them. Remember that they're most likely to stand for people--not that they can't mean other things, but most likely they're a person. Which court card indicates what kind of person. Kings (men) are the motivators, the fire, the spark, the ones who come up with the idea. Queens (women) are the heart of the kingdom, the water that keeps it alive and refreshed. Knights (youths) are the airy voice of the kingdom, they travel to the ends of the earth fighting for it. Pages (kids) are the seed in the earth, it's future, it's message. The Secret Tarot doesn't make a particular effort to distinguish the knights, but there are distinguishing elements: The Knight of Swords is prancing along proudly; he goes at a reasonable pace, sword at the ready, eyes gazing about--he is thinking, listening, observing. This sharp gatherer of information neither rushes nor remains still but moves like air, ready to change direction if need be. The Knight of Pentacles by contrast has come to a sudden halt. He gazes down at the earth, seeing what grows there; he's got his coin raised, either to hand it over, pay for what is required or withhold/protect it from bandits. The Knight of Wands is the only one riding purposeful, steady ahead on his mission. He has the most energy, the most focus. He needs to travel and keep traveling forward in the direction his wand points. The Knight of Chalices is still as deep waters, face covered so he can see inward, not outward; he consults his lifted chalice, is holy grail for inspiration. His deeper instincts will tell him how to best defend the kingdom. Does that help? 10/wands: Have two thoughts on this-- (1) untraditional is that instead of being overburdened, this woman is in complete control of everything--the queen bee at the center, multi-tasking. Her enemy is dead (the skull in hand) and she smokes her cigarette as if toasting her success. (2) Traditional: The skull is the man who overburdened himself. He burned himself out, wore himself down to the bone. All that's left are his wands, now on display, and just enough of his fire to light a cigarette.

spoonbender	07 Mar 2005
Cagedflame, are you aware of the Secret Tarots Study Group? You could always start a thread there about a specific card :)! I would personally really like to discuss these cards there. There has also been a discussion about the Secret Tarots 10 of Wands (and other cards) on this thread, so that might be of help. Spoon

Cagedflame	07 Mar 2005
Thirteen wrote: The Secret Tarot doesn't make a particular effort to distinguish the knights, but there are distinguishing elements: [...] The Knight of Pentacles by contrast has come to a sudden halt. He gazes down at the earth, seeing what grows there; he's got his coin raised, either to hand it over, pay for what is required or withhold/protect it from bandits. [...] The Knight of Chalices is still as deep waters, face covered so he can see inward, not outward; he consults his lifted chalice, is holy grail for inspiration. His deeper instincts will tell him how to best defend the kingdom. Does that help? Those are ways of looking at it, I guess. One thing going for RWS, the different movements of the horses are a lot more noticable to me, where in this one it's harder for me to see the paces or lack of. The two snipped ones make sense, the two quoted I'm not sure if that's what I see there. The Kn/p seems somewhere between taken aback and horrified to me in this deck, like he might have just seen something on the ground that's shocked him. The Kn/c card seems ominous to me much like Myrrha said... makes me think of him toasting someone he just killed. Though I can sometimes imagine he's taking medicine in that cup to somewhere it's needed but is dangerous to get to... neither version that I "get" from the card seems relevant in readings I do. Thirteen wrote: 10/wands : Have two thoughts on this-- (1) untraditional is that instead of being overburdened, this woman is in complete control of everything--the queen bee at the center, multi-tasking. Her enemy is dead (the skull in hand) and she smokes her cigarette as if toasting her success. Ah, now that makes a lot of sense to me. Especially "queen" ness since she seems very very similar to the Queen of Swords to me. If I see these two together, I have a feeling I'd think, "Ooops. Someone just paid the price for whatever was causing that queen her sorrows. Looks like I was right and she really did know how to use that giant ass sword."

Thirteen	07 Mar 2005
Cagedflame wrote: The Kn/p seems somewhere between taken aback and horrified to me in this deck, like he might have just seen something on the ground that's shocked him. Possibly. I think the key is how he's holding that coin--it's really a moment of decision for him, use it or with hold it. Knight/Pentacles has always been, to me, the kind of guy who takes his duties very seriously. I can see where he might be horrified by the idea of having to surrender his special coin, even if it's for the good of the kingdom. Quote: The Kn/c card seems ominous to me much like Myrrha said... makes me think of him toasting someone he just killed. The Knight of Cups is perhaps the most unusual of all these knights. Usually, the Knight/Cups is shown as a romantic, a Lancelot, questing, pining, riding a light-colored horse and looking dreamy. But, as you say, this knight with his black armor, visor down, and ominous background looks anything but romantic. He lifts his cup as he might a sword to kill rather than a longing toast to a distant lady. Perhaps the best way to think of him is more like a Phantom of the Opera or Beauty and the Beast. The romantic gone dark, hiding his face from the world, giving himself completely over to his emotions--whether they be feelings of deep love or deep hate. So perhaps he's swearing vengence has he lifts that cup--or perhaps he's swearing passionate, undying love, the kind that will drop a chandelier on someone for insulting his lady love. In that light, he's kinda cool, no?

Cagedflame	10 Mar 2005
I think court cards have decided to come up out the wazoo in readings the past couple of days just to annoy me. I have two whole friends and a tiny family; it's not like there's that many people who can even BE involved. I can see that; a Kn/c driven by emotion, on the brink of being controlled by them. Hmm. I think my criteria for purchasing any new decks is going to involve not just my usual that I must like the High Priestess and the Queens and find them readable, but Knights I instantly "click" with as well. Because I'm lazy sometimes and when I'm just getting the feel for Tarot, this struggle with the Knights can be offputting.

The secret tarot knights and 10w thread was originally posted on 06 Mar 2005 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.